Trailers: BioShock Infinite Gameplay

RJ Dalton

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Raithnor said:
I'm not sure the total collapse of civilization based around a given philosophy is "subtle" or "restrained" commentary. The only reason it didn't seem like it was in your face was because it was a relatively obscure philosophy.

I don't believe the designers and writers are making any attempt to be subtle. The whole point of the Bioshock games is to show that if you take certain ideas to their logical conclusion it creates a dysfunctional society.

To answer your original question: The first Bioshock was like this also, only less racism and more self-indulgent hubris.
boholikeu said:
I understand what you're trying to get at, but political protest signs were never known for their subtlety. The ones in this trailer even seem pretty tame compared with what you see in real life
I'll refer you both to my previous post to keep from repeating myself.

But to add something, Jingoism and xenophobia are behaviors, not philosophies. True, they are associated with a particular political philosophy, but they are actually not philosophies by themselves. Anti-gun control is also not a philosophy, but a policy. This is quite a drop in depth from Objectivism and its extensions. Even discussing these issues is not by itself bad, but again, my last post went into this in more detail than I care to repeat.
 

Samus Aaron

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RJ Dalton said:
Samus Aaron said:
Woah now, no need to go on some sort of rant. Regardless of the fact that, as you say, you were complaining about a lack of subtlety, I wasn't referring to that at all, nor did I need to. Even if it wasn't a main part of your argument, it was still a tenant and therefore subject to criticism. I agree; this game does not appear to be the most subtle game that I've seen, but that fact has nothing to do with what I ws saying.
My apologies. I got hit by a guy who appeared to have been waiting for a (his own words) "radical response" to the trailer. Guy looking to spout off his "enlightened" (massive irony quotations) perspective against the "crazy, conservative nutjob" (assumed implication of his response). I was still kind of in attack mode (I've always believed the best defense is a good offense). Strangely, you got hit harder than the other guy, but this is mostly because yours seemed the more intelligent response and so I felt it deserved a more in depth reply. Probably shouldn't have answered the other guy.
On the whole, I'm largely voicing an unpopular opinion it all its brutal directness. I'm with both Yahtzee and the Extra Credits guy that we ought to hold games to higher standards than we do.
And my problem is ultimately this. When you demonize something, or if you try to (whatever the opposite of demonize is), it cheapens the effect. This level of outright crazy is uncommon and they don't generally get very far because they can't get along with even themselves. But even if we dismiss the lack of believability (and that's easy to do in a fantasy setting like this), but this is really hard to identify with if you're trying to make a point. When you're this far into the insanity, the audience can easily dismiss what's happening as completely unrelated to yourself. How many people would look at this and say "Huh, now that's something I would do."? Well, nobody, because nobody wants to believe themselves capable of that. By dropping us into a world that we already see this far gone makes it unfathomable and we can't read ourselves into it. The subtlety is important because it allows us to make a connection between the sane and the insane. Without it, you get this, which everybody immediately dismisses by saying "glad I'm not like that" and this further pushes us away from understanding.
Even if you have fun playing the game and even if you can see the point it's making, you don't personalize it in any way because you don't connect yourself with the insanity. You don't see how this could be you. Therefore, the effect that it can have on you emotionally is limited.
Hey, no worries. Anyway, I understand your point about subtlety and I don't think it's that far-fetched of an idea, it's just that some of us were thrown off by your reference to anti-conservatism.
 

Daedalus007

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To be brutally honest, I found the entire trailer extremely stupid. Also, when the protagonist talks to themselves in any video game, it comes across really awkwardly in my opinion.
 

boholikeu

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RJ Dalton said:
And my problem is ultimately this. When you demonize something, or if you try to (whatever the opposite of demonize is), it cheapens the effect. This level of outright crazy is uncommon and they don't generally get very far because they can't get along with even themselves. But even if we dismiss the lack of believability (and that's easy to do in a fantasy setting like this), but this is really hard to identify with if you're trying to make a point. When you're this far into the insanity, the audience can easily dismiss what's happening as completely unrelated to yourself. How many people would look at this and say "Huh, now that's something I would do."? Well, nobody, because nobody wants to believe themselves capable of that. By dropping us into a world that we already see this far gone makes it unfathomable and we can't read ourselves into it. The subtlety is important because it allows us to make a connection between the sane and the insane. Without it, you get this, which everybody immediately dismisses by saying "glad I'm not like that" and this further pushes us away from understanding.
Even if you have fun playing the game and even if you can see the point it's making, you don't personalize it in any way because you don't connect yourself with the insanity. You don't see how this could be you. Therefore, the effect that it can have on you emotionally is limited.
Again, I don't think the problem here is an issue of subtlety. Protest signs in real life are notorious for having the subtlety of a baseball bat to the head, so I don't really see why you are expecting them to be any different in this game.

Now, it does demonize the opponent a bit (and thus distances the player from the situation), but if it's anything like the original Bioshock this is done on purpose. The first game had a similar opening that essentially made the player dismiss Objectivism as "loony talk", but as the game went on you find out more about the enemy's background and how he got to this point.

My guess is that this new game will do something similar. The player's opponents are demonized early on so that when you do find out their whole story it has even more of an impact. Something along the lines of: "Hey I used to think these guys were nothing more than raving madmen, but now I can see that they actually had good intentions in the beginning".
 

Rakkana

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Felt like a completly different game. Still, it looks brilliant! I'm definatly getting this.
 

omegatheta

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likely as not it IS scripted it is an early release build designed to show some of the things they are working to implement including the graphics system by release day the whole game could take place in a cheesecake factory on the moon... soo don't judge the whole thing based on a tech demo designed to get people interested
 

Nofootcanman

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ZippyDSMlee said:
Nofootcanman said:
disapointed that he has a voice and a partner now but hopefully there will be no vita chambers as the whole you cant die thing kind of ruined the atmosphere of the 2 bioshocks
Well its either a save point or vita chamber, I hope they something more interesting but most likely it will be something overly simplified as so to not offend the drooling masses...
Why cant they just use the vita- chambers as regular checkpoints that dont leave everything as it was before you die, otherwise there is no real challenge in it unless you turn it all off but then if you dont save for a while you get booted back loads.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Nofootcanman said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
Nofootcanman said:
disapointed that he has a voice and a partner now but hopefully there will be no vita chambers as the whole you cant die thing kind of ruined the atmosphere of the 2 bioshocks
Well its either a save point or vita chamber, I hope they something more interesting but most likely it will be something overly simplified as so to not offend the drooling masses...
Why cant they just use the vita- chambers as regular checkpoints that dont leave everything as it was before you die, otherwise there is no real challenge in it unless you turn it all off but then if you dont save for a while you get booted back loads.
Well there are more ways to do it than that.

Its one option but I tend to side with money or times for revival, fail that you lose some items(half of money, or other spawned type of item) fail that you start back at the nearest starting point of the area with 20-50% health and eve.

In bioshock I really wish they maxed money out to 5000, use money to load unload mods from the weaopn stations customize mods at the Uinvent things and use 1000$ to revive at the nearest chamber or 100 at the start of a level which would lower item spawning for awhile.... sigh... I really wish they let use mod the damn thing..... hell drop tech support and let the community at the SDK after a year of it being out that way all these crappy half assed games will be fixed and supported
 

Numachuka

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Am I the only one who though that he sounded a little like Harvey from the Fatman cartoons on the Weird Al Show.
 

Eumersian

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Sep 3, 2009
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Looks good, and I'll probably buy it. But the trailers for the original Bioshock made the game look more interesting than it was. Don't get me wrong, the game was excellent. I had a load of fun playing it, but based on the trailers I remember, I expected a little more of a cinematic feel. I wouldn't be surprised if Infinite is the same way.
 

Panda Mania

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flipsalty said:
I think it's easiest to compare what the video is to the first video we got for the original bioshock. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmw78t8NgIE It clearly isn't actual gameplay but it does provide a pretty in depth idea of what the gameplay may be like.
You're definitely right. That original trailer was every bit as eye-poppingly awesome and dubious in terms of gameplay reality as this one.

Ah, so Infinite looks favorable. After kinda belaboring the whole Rapture thing with the 2 Bioshocks (don't get me wrong, I freakin' ADORED that city, but even I was ready to draw the line at the sequel), I hope the teams can start afresh with this 19th century, nationalistic, steampunk city in the sky.

Only two things bother me: why the Bioshock in the title? This game may be a spiritual successor, but it seems like they're just trying to cash in on the label. Also: rescuing a flowingly-dressed lady complete with ample bosom? I thought we were over this, guys...
 

lizards

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Zhukov said:
Oh my.

This is most interesting. And promising.

One thing that strikes me is that it's a bit hard to tell what is gameplay and what is cutscene. For example, the part where the crazy politician starts yelling at the player. Is that in gameplay? Could the player just shoot him in the face and consequently miss the whole cannon sequence? Same goes for the part with the handyman on the bridge. Would he still have fallen if the player wasn't blasting away at him?

Also, I like the flying big daddy. It harkens back to the original Bioshock but at the same time is appropriate to the new setting. Nice.

Lastly, for better or for worse... cleavage.
i think this is going to be like this halo wars trailier http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3PG7kS6TJ0&feature=related

overall the gameplay looked amazing, and i believe this is what ensemble wanted to do until mircosoft stepped in, and know its trash

if this is the case lets just hope the gameplay is good and mircosoft stays out of it
 

beefpelican

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Callate said:
Drool... That looks awesome.

As has been said, though, one wonders about the degree of scripting. More to the point, one wonders if they can make scripting that doesn't endanger the player's feeling of empowerment and isn't easy to "break" through unexpected player actions. It's one thing to play a game that "feels like a movie", and another to play one that makes the player feel they never have any more choices than a character whose script is already written.
I wouldn't worry too much. Remember the preview video for Bioshock 1? That also felt a bit scripty, with the big daddy falling over the railing, and another one showing up behind you and stabbing you through the spine, but remember what a great game happened afterwards? I think they just wanted to take their world out for a bit of a spin is all.

Side note: given the weird inconsistencies between what was initially perceived and what was actually happening, what do you figure the odds are that it's all a dream or a hallucination or some such, and you're actually just a plasmid crazy splicer?
 

RobfromtheGulag

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I love the things Bioshock has done with the Unreal engine.

I was also pleased (as a cynic) that Bioshock Infinite is taking awhile to develop. One would hope that would imply quality, as opposed to a factory pressed title.