While much of the Escapist seem just love hate these films and echo bob's lame remarks(no matter how baseless they are.) I refuse to. Especially since he's in my arena today hehe. For having a show called the big picture he seems to rarely see it. He should really rename it Bob's tunnel vision.
So here goes....
* What Do the Decepticons Want, Again?
Same thing we do every night pinky...try to take over the world! Oh wait wrong show.
"In the movies, exactly what the evil plan is - or the reason they're sticking around on Earth - changes multiple times, often in the same film."
Um no this is absolutely false. See below.
"In the first film, everyone shows up on Earth because they only just figured out that Megatron and the Allspark are being held here. The Allspark itself, incidentally, also changes usage a few times - from scene to scene it provides unlimited power, turns regular machines into Transformers, or kills you if you're a robot and you put it in your chest. The fact that Megatron has been held by a rogue government agency for decades is apparently a big deal."
* So when did they change the goal of the Decepticons..oh wait they didn't. As for what the Allspark can do, it was basically described as a cosmic cube of sorts. it's made of pure energy, and creates life for transformers and can recreate planets. It's description never changed as everythnig it did was covered under that.May be you lack the imagination and needed the movie to hold your hand more(So much for overthinking haha.) it be no different than Electro using his powers to create magnet despite electricity being his power. It's just another application of the same prinpical in another way. (which being pure energy it's not destroyed, it merely transformed.)
So basically the Decepticons and Autobots both wanted the cube for the entire film as all subplots lead up to that. While some of the threads were a bit pointless or convoluted (whole glasses was just a vehicle to get Sam involved but they ultimately don't do much as Sam,and bumble bee recover the Cube without them. So they'd been better off just doing what Jazz said and followed Bumble bee when he got captured.)
"But in Revenge of The Fallen, it turns out the Transformers have been here since the dawn of history. One of them mentions his ancestor being The Wheel (heh) while another has been hiding in a government museum disguised as a military jet (because no one would ever check that). Also, the Decepticons now want to blow up the sun, because they're running out of fuel needed to make baby Decepticons (huh?). This is also where we learn that only a Prime can kill The Fallen, but for some reason just about anyone can kill a Prime."
* Which turns out the first movie's plot was bigger scope than originally thought as the events of the two films were connected.(since when it is a crime for movies to do that.) Why Optimus believed Megatron wanted the Allspark, wasn't the full scope of what was going on, nor was he aware of the Fallen. (something the Primes weren't too proud of and tried not to talk about hence why his original name was stripped.) Megatron himself never once explained his plans in the first film to verify Optimus' claim to make it a contradiction.
They needed the Allspark still as that thread continued with Sam absorbing it. (which was passed into the Matrix when Sam had his near death experience.) Sam had all knowledge inside him they needed to get the star harvester working as explained by Jetfire.
While wasn't explained well, merely shown vaguely.(the comics go further with this.) The Fallen had psychic powers is why only Prime could defeat him. Megatron was controlled by him , as he was his own bot when he wasn't near him, but becomes so subservant once he went near him. Prime's are immune to the Fallen's powers, as we see when Optimus battles him. If Optimus wasn't the Fallen would just tossed him around like a ragdoll as he did the US miltary just moments earlier. Optimus mauls him because of that. It's like seeing Magneto fight hulk with out his powers. It doesn't go well.
While we're tossing movies under the bus, we get more info about the Fallen than we ever got in the 1986 film to Why the Matrix of leadership (which was a massive Retcon, since Optimus never had it before it. We see a Xray of him in Prime Problem.) kills Unicron or where either of them came from. But hey one story glossing over major details all together is ok if there's enough nostaliga covering it.
"Now, in Dark of The Moon, motivations and history change yet again. The Decepticons haven't just been here for decades, they've been actively working with human collaborators. Why wasn't "let our nearly all-powerful leader out of his ice prison" on the agenda before? We're not told. Supposedly Megatron and Sentinel Prime were both headed for Earth to arrange a clandestine surrender/team up, which sort of makes sense since all that ancient tech from Fallen is here, but that never comes up. We finally get a belated repetition of the "steal your resources" motivation - but it's a trap! The resource they want is humanity itself, a slave labor army to rebuild Cybertron"
No it wasn't. Sentinel prime and Megatron forged a pact, but Sentinel was shot down before the war ended(none of the Decepticons knew about the betrayal till it happened in the film. Starscream was completely unaware of it and is surprised when megatron explains it.) and never heard from again till they found his ship in the 60s. This plan fell thru, and megatron went with other schemes between now and then. When Optimus gained the matrix, he then had means to revisit his earlier scheme. It was a dead end till then. He likely was trying figure out a way go around Sentinel being on verge of dead till then. The movie never once says Megatron's only plan was to work with Sentinel. Besides when has Megatron ever had only one scheme? he's the Doctor Doom of the Transformers universe.
Given how much got lifted from the original series in this film I'd have say someone was paying attention to the source material.
- The plot of Ultimate Doom , where the Decepticons used a space bridge to move cybertron to earth to enslave us and gather resources is lifted wholesale.
- Megatron using Abe lincoln's momument as a throne. This was done in the episode Atlantis Arises. (and the ending of the first movie game as the Decepticons.)
- Dark Awakening, Optimus prime was brought back to life as a trap for the autobots before killing him again.(Way to pour salt in the wounds Hasbro.) In the episode Rodimus imediately tries hand over leadership back to Optimus Prime the same way Prime does to Sentinel in the film. Only difference is Sentinel rejects the matrix of leadership, while Rodimus has beat it back out of prime later.
- Megatron's master plan, The autobots are forced the earth by the humans to leave due to an act of deception. Of course it turns out to be a trick, and the autobots return in time to save the planet.
- Ironhide gets wasted simliar to how gets taken out in the 86 film. Only we see it this time. (which was a real downer for me. I love Ironhide especially his movie verse incarnation.)
I'd say there's a lot more stuff but there's alot of attention to details to the source material. Far more than the credit given. Even Revenge of the fallen, was simliar plot to change gears with the solar needle. Jetfire maintained his role of being a turncoat, the taxi service of the team, and merged with Optimus Prime as he did in the Unicron trilogy.
Ultimately you have watch these with the same level of suspession of disbelief as you did with the original series. If you overanalyze it all it just doesn't work as Why in world would Megatron held back that many troops on the moon till now. 200 some Decepticons landed in DC....why did they just chill on the moon till now?.(thats really the biggest beef I had with it all. I'd liked it better if theye explained them being space bridged from some really remote part of space as to why their lack of involvement till now.) If Soundwave and Lazerbeak have been on the Earth since the 60s...why didn't they help find the Allspark sooner? Same could be said for ROTF...why didnt Jetfire, or any of the seekers looking for the Matrix of Leadership recover the Allspark since it wasn't concealed till the hoover dam was built if they'd been here for centuries? You just have look at the stories from a self contained episode outlook as there's parts that just don't work if you don't. It still has far less continuity errors than all xmen films do heh. Continuity is a pain sometimes lol.
*Do We Know the Transformers Are Here or Not?
- Do you pay attention or not? is the better question. In the first film there was a global communication blackout for an undisclosed amount of time thanks to Frenzy. It was likely dismissed as a terrorist act along with the attack the Decepticons lead in quatar at the start of the film. Having an entire group of soldiers in a city with no means of communicating to rest of the world what happened is probably pretty easy to cover up. Money or bullets, your choice.
Not to mention people likely weren't sure what the heck they saw anyways. The transformers weren't in robot mode the entire time, and people usually start running when there's army vehicles firing on the street. With no proof, most people would dismiss what the peopel would say as crazy. People claim there's aliens all time in the real world, and no one believes them. It's not that much of a stretch to guess that would happen here.
In second movie we see the pbulic starting become aware of this situation. Mid way thru the film the Fallen reveals that there's transformers on earth to the world.They openly show themselves and people are quite aware of their prescence by the third film. It doesn't help Simmons has wrote a book about it even.(though the government has painted him as nutjob, as shown in the O reilly scene.)
As for why Sam can't talk about it. He was still sworn to to keep a lid on it. That's why they paid for his school. The government probably wants keep as much of it all under wraps as possible. It's also for Sam's own safety.
*Why Are the Robots Still "In Disguise"?
"So why do they still spend most of the film dressed up as cars? And why is it always the same cars? If you'll permit me one "check the source" digression - the original point of the disguise gimmick was that they had to take the form of vehicles they roughly resembled in size and shape."
- Because it's alot cheaper show cars than robots for the entire film. Obvious answer really. Plus they are product placement in the film then. So it's a budget issue all around.
" The films do away with this concept (now any Transformer can be pretty much any vehicle) and by Part 3 have done away with their own prohibition on fudging the question of mass, as Laserbeak is seen taking the form of computers and wall decorations less than half his size."
- Laserbeak was shown to be a special case. He was able to articulate himself far better than other transformers are. Given he flies his insides might be hollowed out a bit like a real bird's structure is. It's possible he's an orgami transformer simliar how they explained Broadside being an aircraft carrier as an alt mode. Plates, which overlap in his other modes, extend out to cover the mass. As a result, his armor is terribly thin in this mode. This series has always had issues with Scale. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Scale
"Oh, and come to think of it, in Part 2, the Decepticons have an agent that can disguise herself (itself?) as a 100%-convincing human female. And "she" doesn't seem to be some kind of special deal - just a random underling! If they can do that, why is the car/truck/plane thing in play at all?"
-Pretenders are concept that existed since the 80s. Yes they are special breed of transformers. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Pretenders
*Why Is Optimus Prime Basically Useless?
- No more so than G1. Prime gotten beaten down effortlessly on a few occasions. He got fragged in showdown with Megatron in the 86 film. In plenty of episodes we see humans saving his butt. Whcih is larely the point, the autobots never could won the war without our help. They re not war machines, and the Decepticons are. They kicked the autobots butts up and down the block before landing on Earth. Prime is merely the toughest of the guys who aren't soldiers.
Why are the autobots shown less over series than humans? Again obvious answer...MONEY. For same reason Ironman spends majority of the film not in his armor and the whole fight with ironmonger was a whopping 7 mins. Why scenes on Oa in green lantern were brief and not the majority of the film. Why Thor spent so much time being human and less time beign Thor. You make these assessments as if budgets are unlimited or something.
This also goes back to your batman comparsion. Having Batman in his costume is not a special effect. Movies will show things that don't consume tons of cash for every second they re on screen. They dont need army take over for batman to keep the budget down since there's far less special effects involved in his films. Every other super hero tends spend a far less amont of time in costume or being super as a direct result of budget. Transformers are no exception.
*What's the Point of All This?
*To sell stuff and tell a story. As I joked transformer is the greatest 2 hour long commerical ever. You don't think so, really because Hasbro making more money with their toylines than they ever have on top of all product placement they do. Big picture Bobby..and you're missing it.
" But it extends into the thematic realm in the way The Autobots, supposedly the main characters, are constantly eclipsed in big action scenes in favor of human soldiers. An entire subplot in the first film is dedicated to a military unit fighting Decepticons in the desert, which serves almost no purpose other than to reinforce that the U.S. Army kicks just as much Decepticon ass as Optimus Prime does."
- No you're just reading more into it than it is. The Decepticons curb stomped the armed force for the bulk of the beginning of the film. A single Decepticon trashed an entire base. Scorponok shrugged off gunfire that turns tanks into swiss cheese. (Do you have any idea how stupidly resilent he was taking A-10 rounds like that? As a member of the air force I do.)The Decepticons crippled our entire communication grid, and almost caused us to go into world war 3 prior to their attack. I think was a rather balanced take on our might as a stand alone, as it always comes down to both humans and the autobots needing each other.
Humans have always been a major part of the Transformers universe. Even the original series has plenty of human heavy episodes. They play such a major role that Megatron went back in time to kill us off before we became a threat in beast wars. it gives the autobots the homefield advantage at every turn, and we vastly outnumber the Decepticons. The only series to have no human involvement on screen was Beast wars and War for cybertron.
This isn't a direct translation of transformers, rather a what if transformers were in the real world. Honestly the human element in previous series got ignored a bit too much at certain points. Such as the battle for autobot city in the 86 film, the decepticons attack for over a day and no human involvement is shown outside of Daniel despite being on Earth and distress calls going out. An alien civil war is happening on our front lawn, of course we'd get involved. May be it swung too much in the other direction, but it's refreshing to see how it effects the world as they come into it.
It also grounds the movie a bit for typical movie goer, as prior to these films I don't think you'd gotten a major turn out of box office on a super bot heavy film, if the bomb in 86 is an indicator of anything. Plus it being live action , that means humans are involved in it by default. If you really wanted a bot heavy film you,d be better off making an animated one where costs the same to make anything appear on screen. Simliar to the TMNT reboot that was all CGI. As long as it's live action humans are going be the forefront.
And don't say well they're the title characters. Gremlins, Critters, and even ET took the back seat to humans. That's just live action films for you.
Ok I think that's enough out of me for now. I'll check back later.
"Kicking the soldiers around"?
I don't know if you noticed, but in the second movie the US army kicks more decepticon ass than teh autobots do. Makes you wonder why they're even around. Earth's armies seem to be able to handle the enemy just fine
You must have missed the following scene when the Fallen trashes our forces like toys. That is why we needed the autobots to help. or all other times the Decepticons completely tore the humans a new one. (such as the fight in Chicago didn't go so hot till autobots showed up.)
Anyway. Here's what I don't get about the plot (of the second movie in particular): why the fuck did The Fallen give a shit about harvesting our sun? I mean, I get that he believed Cybertronians to be superior beings, but there are so many more stars out there without life orbiting them. To me, it seems like the only reason he got locked away in the first place is because he was a lazy asshole. He'd rather organize an army to subvert the orders he was given than, I dunno, go look somewhere else
The Fallen was unreasonable and refuses to compromise. That's really whole downfall of the Decepticons as a whole as they try drive that point home with the scene when they revive Megatron and Kill the little ones despite there being options to fixing their boss besides that.(like the parts of all dead Decepticons near by that got dumped from the first film.) They will accomplish their goals at any costs and don't care who they want on to do it. The Fallen got tired of playing ball with the other Primes and decided they were only slowing him down. He just tried to take control of the matrix of leadership and the star harvester to remove any further speed bumps later.
If the Fallen was willing make compromises and be reasonable there never would been a war in the first place. Long as two parties are willing listen they can work through anything.
