Trion Claims Rift Stole WoW Subscribers

[mattaui]

While it's true that a large chunk of people I used to raid with on WoW are now subscribers to Rift, they didn't quit WoW because of Rift. They quit WoW because of WoW, and were hoping that Rift might offer them something. Like several of those same people, I've just decided I'm burned out on MMOs for awhile, and there wasn't anything special about Rift that changed that feeling.

This sounds familiar. I started back in WoW just last year and was in a fairly well-populated guild. Eventually though, all but three of the members left. Although I hear they are all playing Rift now, it wasn't because of that game that they left. Like myself, they basically just found that once you'd quickly plowed through the five levels of...levelling, there wasn't really much else to hold your attention.

As an aside, isn't it Rift the MMO which has some ads with the legend "We're not in Azeroth anymore"? I see what they did there.

Right. I really have to wonder about the decisions made with Cataclysm, though I think it was simply a matter of them wanting to revamp the world -and- release an expansion that they just couldn't do. I have a hard time believing they didn't expect people to blow through it and wonder what they were supposed to do next, and that casuals weren't going to be happy with the extreme learning curve in heroics and raids.

But yes, Trion's built their entire ad campaign on saying they're better than World of Warcraft. I think trying to define yourself as not your competition will only get you so far.

 

[mattaui]

At the risk of being ripped apart by some angry wow fanboys I'm gonna go ahead and say WoW has lost a LOT more than 600k subs... thats just what Blizzard is tellin you.

I believe this because 1. I play WoW and have seen just how many previously full and heavy pop servers are now low, medium pop servers. and 2. I highly doubt that magic 12 million subs number was ever truly factual. Maybe 12 million accounts created but 12 mil active subs? Please.

Flame away, ye fanboys.

Actually, I think what you're seeing is people who still have subs that aren't playing, and they're sure not renewing them. I know several folks who are longtime raid guild officers and always subbed for six months at a time, but they've left with three and four months still on the sub. So, yeah, 600,000 lost subs now doesn't even begin reflect the total lack of interest by those who are letting multi-month subs expire or just maintain a sub in the vain hopes that something happens to excite them.

 

[mattaui]

While it's true that a large chunk of people I used to raid with on WoW are now subscribers to Rift, they didn't quit WoW because of Rift. They quit WoW because of WoW, and were hoping that Rift might offer them something. Like several of those same people, I've just decided I'm burned out on MMOs for awhile, and there wasn't anything special about Rift that changed that feeling.

Quite true.

I think the biggest issue is just that the changes made with Cataclysm didn't satisfy hardcore gamers any more than they already had and alienated more middle-ground players entirely.

But everyone, Blizzard especially, is eager to place the blame on other things.

Yep. I was in a guild full of people who raided vanilla, BC and LK. People with six and seven max level alts who wanted to love WoW for every possible reason and would overlook quite a lot in order to keep playing it, but even they weren't satisfied with Cataclysm.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Considering the number of "FU"s Blizzard keeps giving to their veteran players I would go as far as saying Rift stole those 600,000 WoW subscribers without even trying.

The grind-time dilemma of MMOs always makes me chuckle.
It's like those cell-phone commercials (don't remember which brand of the top of my head):
"We treat our new customers with more respect than our old ones."

I can imagine grinding for a solid year for your top-tier gear and levels, and then they scale the grind back just in time for a bunch of newbies to invade your raid queues.
So instead of taking six months or grind to reach max level, it only takes two. I would feel pretty salty at having paid three times the money and time for the same exact benefits as someone who just started.

Not does this showcase the inherent problem behind grind-centric games, but MMOs in general. I haven't played or seen an MMORPG to date that doesn't rely entirely on grind to turn profits.

Also, noting short of Blizzard is going to truly "kill" WoW. We're finally seeing cracks in the monolith for the first time since its launch, but I doubt that means a deathblow is inevitable.

 

[Torrasque]

While it's true that a large chunk of people I used to raid with on WoW are now subscribers to Rift, they didn't quit WoW because of Rift. They quit WoW because of WoW, and were hoping that Rift might offer them something. Like several of those same people, I've just decided I'm burned out on MMOs for awhile, and there wasn't anything special about Rift that changed that feeling.

^ this.
Trion makes it sound like it stole 600,000 of the most hardcore dedicated WoW players, when WoW was at its best.
At least half of the people I played WoW with quit WoW because of the same reasons I did: The raids are boring, the content is the same, the "hyper awesome new changes" are interesting for about a week, not months. So, its not that Trion stole 600,000 subscribers, its that 600,000 people are sick of WoW and think Rift is better. Hell, I hope a game that says "what can we do that WoW did, better?" does good.

If Rift came out during BC, they would have had negative growth.

 

[Jumwa]

Yep. I was in a guild full of people who raided vanilla, BC and LK. People with six and seven max level alts who wanted to love WoW for every possible reason and would overlook quite a lot in order to keep playing it, but even they weren't satisfied with Cataclysm.

Much the same. Our guild weren't all hardcore raiders, but we had been playing together since vanilla and raiding since Burning Crusade. I don't know that any of us had a free slot on our accounts for new characters, and all of us had every single one of those characters in our Horde guild or our Alliance side alt-guild, so we'd be able to spend all our time hanging out and chatting.

There was almost a desperation in our desires to want to keep liking the game, only because quitting would mean weakening the ties that held us together. Whereas the excitement for BC and Wrath lasted us so long, the fact just remained they changed so many fundamental aspects in ways that seemed a back-step for the game. Like it stopped moving forward as it had in previous expansions.

I could ramble off the explicit reasons why Cataclysm made us all stop enjoying ourselves for the first time in six years, but I'm sure there's many different answers, that often conflict. I know both casual and hardcore gamers dissatisfied with the game and leaving, but with different reasons.

Personally I place my bet on the fact that WoW is now in the hands of a new team, with a new head of development. They went from the high of Wrath only to see all their top designers shuttled off to work on other Blizzard games and WoW suffered for it.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Well no shit; I doubt it got ALL the people that left WoW but it got a lot that WoW forgot about. What with dumbing every other thing down, padding all corners, and screwing over half the players in quality questing.

WoW is dying but like the Emperor it will be on the golden throne to live on until something happens. Finally getting better games out so they won't be on top for long.

like the way Halo was still 'the king of FPS' game even though that title had technically moved to CoD, in terms of numbers, though now i believe CoD has the numbers and title >.> but now i'm off point

anyway, these guys do know there's like a LOT of other MMOs right? some Free to Play, most Pay to Play, so same as above, doubt they got ALL 600K people, some might have been like me and just tired of the 'stat' based game play and went looking for something that required them to be awake for

 

[viranimus]

I have no interest in rift whatsoever, and WoW even less so.

What gets on my nerves is the "5% is nothing to be proud of" comments.

I hope you do realize that most MMOs are considered "viable" round about 250k subs. so over 600k is something that the people behind Rift should be proud of. Granted it may not last long as the shine wears off, but thats for time to tell.

 

[LoopyDood]

One (tiny) mistake; the first word in the last sentence is not capitalized.

Though I have little interest in most MMOs, I see this as good news. Blizzard has cornered the MMO market with World of Warcraft and this is stifling innovation. How often do you hear "WoW clone" when details about new fantasy-themed MMOs are released? Many times this is justified.

 

[Alucard788]

...and then they all realized that the 'Rift' gimmick and content whiz buy far to fast (like 2 weeks to 50 fast...without even trying) and there they are... sitting in the city hub waiting for a instance pop or raid.

So they can get tokens for gear...to raid...to get more gear...It's WOW 2.0

>_<

 

[KarlMonster]

While it's true that a large chunk of people I used to raid with on WoW are now subscribers to Rift, they didn't quit WoW because of Rift. They quit WoW because of WoW, and were hoping that Rift might offer them something. Like several of those same people, I've just decided I'm burned out on MMOs for awhile, and there wasn't anything special about Rift that changed that feeling.

Also, most all of these people (including you, Adrian!) will go back to WoW. Rift didn't steal anything.

 

[DanielBrown]

While it's true that a large chunk of people I used to raid with on WoW are now subscribers to Rift, they didn't quit WoW because of Rift. They quit WoW because of WoW, and were hoping that Rift might offer them something.

Pretty much this.
If anything; Rift made me miss WoW. I went back to WoW for a month after my free time was up.
WoW got dull again pretty fast though.

However, apart from stealing pretty much everything from WoW it was a damn fun game. Saboteur was definetly one of the most fun classes I've ever played with. What really killed it for me was that the world felt so small and boxed and the dismount/slow effects every damn mob threw at you if you were on your mount and got aggro. Got so damn annoying not being able to take short cuts.

Edit: Oh yeah, and the freeze frames I got all the time.

 

[Merkavar]

i used to play wow, now i play rift.

rift is very similiar to wow. for me rift is new and exciting. once you played one wow expansion you have played them all.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Well no shit; I doubt it got ALL the people that left WoW but it got a lot that WoW forgot about. What with dumbing every other thing down, padding all corners, and screwing over half the players in quality questing.

WoW is dying but like the Emperor it will be on the golden throne to live on until something happens. Finally getting better games out so they won't be on top for long.

like the way Halo was still 'the king of FPS' game even though that title had technically moved to CoD, in terms of numbers, though now i believe CoD has the numbers and title >.> but now i'm off point

anyway, these guys do know there's like a LOT of other MMOs right? some Free to Play, most Pay to Play, so same as above, doubt they got ALL 600K people, some might have been like me and just tired of the 'stat' based game play and went looking for something that required them to be awake for

Its already hit that 'King on his death bed" stage. Have you seen that game? It had a good run but its a busted ship on choppy seas. Newer better MMOs are in the works and being released. MMO's with devs that aren't pussies wiling to cave to a vocal minority that says 'Dungeons are to hard plox nerf". And games that do what WoW did better or aren't doing what wow did.

It is still king but it is actively dying. Eventually it will be the king in spirit if something better dosen't knock it out of its throne. It won't always be king but good god it needs to go so we can end the constant stream of hotkey bullshit.

I really hate hotkeys by now.

XD i never fell into the WoW trap, i was on CoH for 3 years though, Currently Vindictus and Requiem (when Vin is being pissy)

 

[geizr]

From my limited experience with MMOs compared to some other gamers(I've only played MMOs for about 6 years), I think it's really hard to judge anything about an MMO until after passing the 4 month, 6 month, and 1 year milestones in its lifetime. Honestly, unless the MMO is absolutely horrendous, as I've heard Final Fantasy XIV is, it's nearly impossible to develop a reasonable opinion or provide a solid review or critique of the game without having played at least 1-2 months on a regular basis, and even then, such experience has to be qualified appropriately in accordance with when those months of play occur relative to the mentioned lifetime milestones of the game. This is because it takes at least that long(again, unless the game is just obviously, blatantly horrendous) to learn and gain enough familiarity with the game's mechanics, gameplay, world setting, and various systems to form a informed and rational assessment.

Until such milestones as listed above have been reached, any statements of a game's success, failure, or quality, in my opinion, are questionable, at best, and should be taken with copious measures of salt.

More to the topic, stealing subscriptions from WoW is not really that hard, in my opinion. The game is old, and a lot of people are just, frankly, getting bored and want to find something new. Unfortunately, as best as I can tell, there really hasn't been an MMO that has been able to match WoW's overall quality and success. I attribute this failing to the fact to many other game developers/publishers keep trying to out-WoW WoW instead of actually developing a new game(if I want to play WoW, I won't play some half-baked knock-off; I'll play the original). WoW has done many things well and some things wrong, but it hasn't done everything. There is still latitude for developers to push the envelop in the design and quality of MMOs and create a successful game, but this can only happen when they stop trying to merely imitate WoW's success or design.

 

[Racthoh]

Rift is pushing out content patches really fast as the 3rd one is on the way toward the end of June. Unfortunately content patch means more instanced content. Rather than push what makes the game different from WoW they're pushing what makes them exactly the same and hope that it's just better. Personally I feel like what little raid content I have experienced is quite well designed, assuming bugs can just be polished out. But I just... hate the commitment to it. The Rift content is so easy to commit to, so easy to jump in and out, it's great. The raid content however suffers from the exact same problems as every other freaking MMO.

I am praying Guild Wars 2 sticks to small sized party stuff and whenever they push out new content it's new dynamic content and not instanced garbage.

 

[Vakz]

There are A LOT of disgruntled WoW-players, who simply stick around because they like MMOs, but simply haven't found something they enjoy more. They will usually jump to whatever new similar MMO that happens to pass by, and most will quit, and that has been the reason for the death of several MMOs to date (Warhammer, AoC, Aion, etc).