Trolls Will Probably Troll Whether Online or Offline

[Fsyco]

Anyone else disappointed that the Dark Tetrad test isnt takeble online or at least there isnt a link in the OP?

I know the 'Dark Triad' is Narcissism, Psychopathy, and Machiavellian-ism. The fourth one is probably sadism, on an educated guess. So you'd probably need to go to a therapist to see whether or not you actually have these personality traits, since they're almost impossible to self-diagnose.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Can't see much to argue with in this article. The common excuse for things like trolling (or, more generally, being a dick online) is that it's somehow just part of the internet and should be accepted. I've always maintained that's not the case and that being a dick is being a dick, online or off. All the internet provides is a way for people who have that tendency to do so without repercussions (and with, sadly, a cheering section). In other words, if you're a dick online then you would likely be a dick offline too except you know you wouldn't be able to get away with it as easily.

 

[Archon]

Anyone else disappointed that the Dark Tetrad test isnt takeble online or at least there isnt a link in the OP?

I know the 'Dark Triad' is Narcissism, Psychopathy, and Machiavellian-ism. The fourth one is probably sadism, on an educated guess. So you'd probably need to go to a therapist to see whether or not you actually have these personality traits, since they're almost impossible to self-diagnose.

There is a test at YourMorals.org that can test you for the Dark Triad. They don't label the test as such because they don't want to give away what they are testing but after you've taken it you find out. If you take enough of the personality tests on that site you'll find it.

Then you'll wish you hadn't.

 

[Abomination]

So, for the sake of this "study" did they actually DEFINE what "trolling" is or what "trolls" are?

Because I feel that's the crux of the equation here.

 

[Karadalis]

Now would you look at that...

Doesnt this disproof a certain Feministic activist who claims that video games make bad people? I mean

Those trolls who attacked her where douchebags before they came to the internet and gaming according to this.

Anyways its hardly surprising really. With more social awareness and harder punishment for mobbing bullies in real live have a harder time getting away with it. So they flock to the internet where they can get away with it thanks to a perceived anonimity.

The ball is now in the park of the social companies like facebook and twitter and the lawmakers to finaly realize that "cyber-bullying" is nothing more then bullying and mobbing in real live and should be handled and punished just the same.

For some odd reason online mobbing is still seen as a minor infracture even thought there allready have been alot of cases where the victim was driven to suicide.

Also i think we have to differianciate between trolls who basicly prank people and real sadists who like a pitbull will not let go of a person till they have completly destroyed said persons live.

As much as trolls in online gaming annoy me for pissing people off in online games for the most part they are pretty harmless. Not so the guy who will spen entire weekends finding out your personal info and making your live living hell.

 

[Fsyco]

Anyone else disappointed that the Dark Tetrad test isnt takeble online or at least there isnt a link in the OP?

I know the 'Dark Triad' is Narcissism, Psychopathy, and Machiavellian-ism. The fourth one is probably sadism, on an educated guess. So you'd probably need to go to a therapist to see whether or not you actually have these personality traits, since they're almost impossible to self-diagnose.

There is a test at YourMorals.org that can test you for the Dark Triad. They don't label the test as such because they don't want to give away what they are testing but after you've taken it you find out. If you take enough of the personality tests on that site you'll find it.

Then you'll wish you hadn't.

Still not sure how well that would work, since the major part of Narcissism is being self-deluded. They probably think that they're a fine, normal person, will answer as if they are a fine, normal person, and the test would probably say that they're a fine, normal person. And if the test says otherwise, it is clearly wrong and it was probably coded by stupid people who don't know anything who are also probably pedophiles.

 

[Yuuki]

To quote a wise man:

Spoiler: imghere

It probably would have been nicer to post an image without the name photoshopped out and the copyright marks removed, even if the topic at hand is not infact Unreal Tournament.

? I only found it on the web like that, no photoshop from me.

 

[Archon]

Still not sure how well that would work, since the major part of Narcissism is being self-deluded. They probably think that they're a fine, normal person, will answer as if they are a fine, normal person, and the test would probably say that they're a fine, normal person. And if the test says otherwise, it is clearly wrong and it was probably coded by stupid people who don't know anything who are also probably pedophiles.

I don't think that's correct. Yes, narcissists are deluded. But their self-delusion is that they think they're *awesome, amazing people who don't have to worry about their lessers*, not that they think they are fine and normal people. Narcissists have very low empathy and very high self-esteem. They treat others as objects from which to acquire narcissistic supply. So they can, in fact, be outed with testing.

 

[Fsyco]

Still not sure how well that would work, since the major part of Narcissism is being self-deluded. They probably think that they're a fine, normal person, will answer as if they are a fine, normal person, and the test would probably say that they're a fine, normal person. And if the test says otherwise, it is clearly wrong and it was probably coded by stupid people who don't know anything who are also probably pedophiles.

I don't think that's correct. Yes, narcissists are deluded. But their self-delusion is that they think they're *awesome, amazing people who don't have to worry about their lessers*, not that they think they are fine and normal people. Narcissists have very low empathy and very high self-esteem. They treat others as objects from which to acquire narcissistic supply. So they can, in fact, be outed with testing.

That's true. Well, it's a combination of both really. They think that they're better and that nothing is wrong with them. You'd probably have to have the test administered by someone, though, since a narcissist will instantly discredit anything that doesn't support their view of themselves or how the world works. And then treatment would be even worse, since they get VERY upset when their world-view is constantly undermined.

Spot on about how little they care for others, though. My mother has the condition and she's an absolute monster. Although it's kind of a weird, surreal feeling knowing your mother is crazy and never actually loved you

 

[Archon]

Still not sure how well that would work, since the major part of Narcissism is being self-deluded. They probably think that they're a fine, normal person, will answer as if they are a fine, normal person, and the test would probably say that they're a fine, normal person. And if the test says otherwise, it is clearly wrong and it was probably coded by stupid people who don't know anything who are also probably pedophiles.

I don't think that's correct. Yes, narcissists are deluded. But their self-delusion is that they think they're *awesome, amazing people who don't have to worry about their lessers*, not that they think they are fine and normal people. Narcissists have very low empathy and very high self-esteem. They treat others as objects from which to acquire narcissistic supply. So they can, in fact, be outed with testing.

That's true. Well, it's a combination of both really. They think that they're better and that nothing is wrong with them. You'd probably have to have the test administered by someone, though, since a narcissist will instantly discredit anything that doesn't support their view of themselves or how the world works. And then treatment would be even worse, since they get VERY upset when their world-view is constantly undermined.

Spot on about how little they care for others, though. My mother has the condition and she's an absolute monster. Although it's kind of a weird, surreal feeling knowing your mother is crazy and never actually loved you

You are definitely right about the denial of it. Whereas a Machiavellian will say "ahhhh, I knew I was cunning!" and a sociopath will say "so I'm NOT one of the sheep!" a narcissist will say "this text is broken cuz I'm awesome!"

As far as your mother - from the time I have spent around Ns, and seeing their interaction with their children, I know that is a very hard thing to deal with. You have my genuine sympathy.

 

[Fsyco]

Still not sure how well that would work, since the major part of Narcissism is being self-deluded. They probably think that they're a fine, normal person, will answer as if they are a fine, normal person, and the test would probably say that they're a fine, normal person. And if the test says otherwise, it is clearly wrong and it was probably coded by stupid people who don't know anything who are also probably pedophiles.

I don't think that's correct. Yes, narcissists are deluded. But their self-delusion is that they think they're *awesome, amazing people who don't have to worry about their lessers*, not that they think they are fine and normal people. Narcissists have very low empathy and very high self-esteem. They treat others as objects from which to acquire narcissistic supply. So they can, in fact, be outed with testing.

That's true. Well, it's a combination of both really. They think that they're better and that nothing is wrong with them. You'd probably have to have the test administered by someone, though, since a narcissist will instantly discredit anything that doesn't support their view of themselves or how the world works. And then treatment would be even worse, since they get VERY upset when their world-view is constantly undermined.

Spot on about how little they care for others, though. My mother has the condition and she's an absolute monster. Although it's kind of a weird, surreal feeling knowing your mother is crazy and never actually loved you

You are definitely right about the denial of it. Whereas a Machiavellian will say "ahhhh, I knew I was cunning!" and a sociopath will say "so I'm NOT one of the sheep!" a narcissist will say "this text is broken cuz I'm awesome!"

As far as your mother - from the time I have spent around Ns, and seeing their interaction with their children, I know that is a very hard thing to deal with. You have my genuine sympathy.

It's okay now. I'm an adult in college and she's unemployed, married to a deadbeat with an insecure job, and has two young children she has to put through high school at least. And she basically pretends I'm dead. So it all worked out in the end :3

Back to the topic, isn't the Dark Triad the set of conditions that every major evil dictator had? They scheme their way to the top (Machiavellian), don't care who they hurt or what lies they have to tell (Psychopathic), and start a cult of personality around themselves (Narcissistic). Paranoia and sadism probably don't hurt, either. Or maybe they just come with the territory.

 

[NeutralDrow]

To quote a wise man:

The funny thing is, going by this study, it's this comic of theirs that's more accurate.

Spoiler: Relevant.

 

[DjinnFor]

You're telling me that online bullying might be somehow related to offline bullying, another behavior linked to the Dark Tetrad?

Oh look, a conclusion that nobody is surprised at. Nobody except perhaps those with perennial persecution complexes (saaaay, feminist ideologues e.g. "da menz keepin us down & makin sexist comments cause da patriachy & rampant misogyny, oh teh noes we needz our safe spacez pls think of da wimminz").

Turns out trolling and anonymous harassment is associated with the Dark Triad/Tetrad, which means is inherent to both genders and confined to a select group of people who specifically enjoy making other people suffer, just like offline bullying is! And not, in fact, evidence of rampant misogyny in society and the perennial persecution of women by the patriarchy!

Whoda thunk it?

 

[Therumancer]

I almost lost it on reading this, since honestly if this was true we'd probably have seen society being ripped apart at it's seams before there was an Internet to get these people to vent through.

Let me be honest about Trolling, for the most part it tends to be entertaining, not just for the troll, but for people in general. In your average MMO for example you wind up with a lot of people doing repetitive tasks and getting bored. A good troll generally makes people laugh and is part of the community, helping pass the time and make a lot of the more annoying aspects of some of these tasks seem not quite as bad. Your typical troll, is basically just clowning around, and continues because he knows huge numbers of people are laughing with him.

The thing about racism, sexism, and all of these other things online is that many cases it's done largely to knock people off their high horse. For the most part it's because you wind up with a bunch of people, usually left wing, who decide to come in and start yelling at people for telling off color jokes, and making preachy social justice pronouncements that they simply assume everyone agrees with. A lot of times your "troll" is someone who simply comes out to knock these people down a few pegs, and ultimately get them to shut the hell up (or at least create an entertaining argument for spectators). This is a big part of why so few trolls are "brought to justice" as people put it, because anyone who reads chat logs will oftentimes find if they follow the back far enough that the troll has people laughing with them, or if they seem to be targeting someone that the target is typically someone who came rolling into a chat room and pretty much dumped an ice bucket on the entire thing. Indeed if you hang out in certain MMOs you'll find that specific trolls have fan bases and even occasionally wonder when a favorite will be back on to be entertaining (usually when they are about to sit down for some heavy crafting, resource grinding, or going to be spending a lot of time waiting in queues). In short, this might not be the most popular point out there, but so called "trolls" actually contribute to their communities more than most people do.

On another front, let's take perhaps one of the biggest trolling groups ever... "Something Awful" and their infamous "Goons" (I'm not currently a member of the SA forums, one of these days I'll have to find the time and put away a spare $10, I barely have time for The Escapist nowadays). If you've been paying attention you'd notice this is a very famous internet site, that sees incredible amounts of front page traffic. A lot of their trolling antics, especially in their "golden age" on Second Life and such, was done specifically so they could create articles and videos about it and entertain people who visited the front page... and taken in context a lot of it was pretty hilarious, especially when it was taken in context. A lot of the targets also tended to be those who kind of deserved it, or games with an intentionally disturbing presence, that ripped people off, or were known for some truly unjust egomaniacal moderation.


I guess there is some truth to Gabe's "Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory" that a normal person + anonymity + an audience = complete retard. However I don't think that it's the ENTIRE truth, I think for the most part it requires the right combination of positive audience reaction, and a correct game environment for it to work, to get trolls really "into" it. Sadism doesn't enter into it I don't think, especially seeing as nothing forces you to endure a troll, as you can always log out, change characters, or whatever else. In many cases if it seems personal, simply shutting up will usually do the trick because that's the point... that your ruining everyone else's fun by being a preachy twit and taking things too seriously, or whatever.

I will also say that trolling and cyber-bullying are NOT the same thing. For the most part Cyber Bullying involves latching onto a very specific target, and usually involves activities outside of what can be seen in the public. Usually by someone who knows the victim IRL, or has become obsessed to the point of tracking them (often illegally). It's a much bigger deal, but also much rarer. Say for example if someone decides to get online and pretend to be nice to someone and become their girlfriend/boyfriend online simply so the messages back and forth and confidences can be shared among people IRL to mock the person, that's akin to Cyber Bullying. If someone is just making off color jokes and being a bit digusting, or is mocking you because you logged into zone chat and started trying to administer your own brand of "social justice", that's entirely different, and honestly if you log off or just shut up for an hour or so that's likely to be the end of it. The troll doesn't want to hurt you, he's not going to say try and embarrass you with classmates or people you know in your RL workplace.

That's my thoughts at any rate. Saying that trolls are probably sadistic psychopaths IRL is a real stretch (which is what this seems to be implying).

At the end of the day, I think the big reason why trolling persists is because it's not that big a deal, and really I think those that get all uptight about it are the ones who are a real problem for the most part, their strong anti-troll positions largely being because they can't manage to co-exist online without making sure everyone conform to their idea of decorum and morality, and thus wind up becoming troll victims, or at least Sh@t magnets where people start acting unusualy racist/rude/disgusting around them just because they tend to be so preachy.


I can appreciate some other responders thoughts on this about how this could apply to the whole "video game violence" thing, but honestly, I think what's being suggested here represents a greater evil than even that argument. If you think about this, you'd pretty much have to say that almost everyone involved in SA's "Goon" movement is a genuine sadistic sociopath IRL, as opposed to simply accepting that the site is pretty much what it says it is... an internet comedy site.... and I'm just not buying that. I mean I doubt you'll walk into Lowtax's house and see a bunch of severed heads in the freezer next to the ice cream, and if you take this seriously as the sites creator/sponsor/ultimate authority (to the best of my knowledge) he'd have to be at least that far gone for this to make sense... he'd be kind of like Kevin Bacon and the Goons would have to be his "Following" IRL.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

The only people I can imagine who might fail to do so - as OP's article seems to point at - would be those with various issues. This could be mental issues that generally interfere with their perfection of reality, it could be... well... sadists - but then I question the article, in the sense that it seems to indicate that ALL online trolls are sadists.

Not really. Having sadistic or anti-social ("psychopathic") tendencies does not mean you have mental issues. These are personality traits that exist in all of us to some degree but might be more prominent in some individuals. That online trolls would exhibit higher degrees of sadistic and anti-social personality traits isn't really a surprise when you consider what these traits really are all about, to establish dominance, gain personal power and force others to submit by making them suffer. This is not to say that all trolls are "sadists" or "psychopaths", but rather that they have personality traits commonly associated with those kinds of personality types.

Mental issues, such as schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder or what have you is something entirely different. At worst many of these trolls might be suffering from a personality disorder (Anti-social being a good bet) but that's not generally considered a true mental health issue, even if they often are treated with psychiatric care. Personality disorders are personalities that deviate from the social norm and they can't be cured my medication, but rather are treated by cognitive therapy to let the person with the personality disorder mitigate those parts of their personality that makes them unable to function normally within society.

 

[Scow2]

-incredibly long post of awesomeness-

Okay, I'm saving this. Unfortunately, I wish more places had this sort of tolerance and understanding of what the nature of "Trolling" is about.

Trolling is an artform, and it can be quite beautiful in the hands of a master (And quite shite in the hands of an idiot or amateur)

 

[nuttshell]

So these guys are sadists in real life, huh?

Spoiler

That's great, right?

 

[Strazdas]

I'm failing to see how trolling would even work in real life. They would just be called "pranks" or amount to harassment/assault with no way to hide.

Trolling is when someone attempts to provoke an emotional reaction from someone using merely words/images online...that's why it took off, because it's an easy thing to do for a big "reward".
It would never work in real life because 1) it's not the internet and 2) It would be impossible to troll people outside someone you can physically reach.

It's like people didn't even think things through lol, but I guess that's usually the case with knee-jerk reactions to them pesky modern internet gaming kids.

Further evidence to that report being bullshit is that I've trolled people (lightly) in games and forums, and my friends tell me that I'm not usually a sadistic psycho.

To quote a wise man:

Trolling exists in real world. it is often mislabeled and often thingsl ike bullying is mislabeled as trolling. then again most of what we call trolling on the internet isnt actually trolling.
and IT DOES WORK in real life. yes its harder due to slower acess in physical world, but it exists and its nothing new.

Also your theory is bonkers. If a person is an idiot on the internet he is also an idiot in real life. The only difference is that on real life he has to hide it because there still are a lot of bigger idiots that will punch anyone that disagrees with him. you can troll your boss at work even if you want to. you can on the internet. that "normal person" on the image isnt actually normal. what the image should say is "pretends to look normal in real world".
people who are bad in real life will be bad in games and people who are good in real life will be good in games. your personality doesnt change just becasue you got to the internet. the difference is your no longer need to hide it in fear of being beat up.

Speaking as a sadistic troll, I can confirm that the so-called 'GIFT' has some truth to it. A seemingly-normal person might have deep sadistic tendencies, but might also find it difficult to express them in real life because that's frowned upon in society, and having someone yell at you for realsies is stressful. Being on the Internet removes the societal constraint, since there isn't another person physically there. Of course that's also why you get perfectly normal people acting like asshats, since nobody is around to actually ostracize them for their unchecked behavior.

This guy gets it!

snip

Considering that the whole point of trolling is to make others laugh while the person being trolled is unaware, it surely needs positive reaction from other community members.


Capcha: can't have nice things
no, we cant.

Why is it that people feel it's okay to troll on the internet? I know mostly because there's no consequence and most find it funny or appealing since everyone else is doing it (in their logical thinking) but.... why do they suddenly feel it's okay to?

To me, these people aren't considering what's right or wrong. In real life, since there are consequences... even actions to a moiety's degree can lead to dire issues. With the internet, people see all sorts of things and one may go, "Oh wow. That's hilarious! I could never laugh at people in real life for getting screwed over but it seems everyone else in the comments is flat out losing it here! I like this!" and suddenly it drives them to release what they've suppressed.

I would NEVER want to hurt an animal, or make a person feel bad, or jack up a person's relationship.

This applies to the internet in a sense.

I wouldn't want to post in someone's blog about a funeral that whoever died deserved to die for whatever reason. I wouldn't go posting in a video done by Anita that I would rape her (of all things too...) and I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to encourage a depressed human being that they should just off themselves.

Anyhow, I honestly think the best method is to ignore the trolls. Ignoring them usually drives them mad because then the trolls will attempt to get crazier/awful with whatever attempts until they'r just bored. Like for example, in the Know Your Meme section, some users post really disgusting things just to get reactions out of people. Yet, when no one downvotes or comments... they SPAM the gallery until they're banned. Then they just complain on other websites and seek assistance in attacking the website... only to fail.

It seems more like they want attention, but again I could be wrong. Most trolls get encouragement by others regardless if it's praise or dislike from the users who can't stand the troll. I don't even like calling trolls 'trolls' because it sounds mean. I'd rather just call them trouble makers but meh that could be seen just as worse. Not all trolling is bad however, because some trolling is quite funny... if done right and not harming anyone in anyway. Even things that would seem disturbing or just weird isn't really trolling unless it's purposely done to inflict harm or cause conflict towards a person or group.

because these people think its ok to troll (internet or no internet) and the reason they do not do it in real life is from fear of consequences. they dont think its ok to troll on the internet only.

Whats right or wrong isnt set in stone. people have different conceptions of right and wrong. for example there was a case where rapists thought it was right way to make a wife. Thats what he was taught by his religion. he believed he was doing the right thing. doing something we dont like does not mean we are nto thinking about right or wrong. Now thinknig about consequences is another thing, but we dont think of consequences, its just that on the internet there arent any.


And do you. Do you hurt animals or make people feel bad, on the internet or otherwise? From what i saw from your previuos posts - you dont. so your personality is consistent. there are however people that WANT to make others feel bad, but cannot do that in real life because of risk/reward due to consequences. meanwhile on the internet the rules are different.
You do realize that people are different, and as such have different wants, and some of those may include hurting others. After all, criminals exist.

The only way to defeat real trolls is ignoring them. trolls exist for attention. the problem is, that we also call plenty of other internet behavior trolling. actual trolling is pretty harmless, but we also lump bullying, assholes, malicion and other internet people we dont like under trolling because its convenient to label and hate them. What we fail to realize is that by doing so we are bullying them instead.

 

[Ryleh]

Although online bullies may be sadists in real life, many of them are not extroverted enough to express it in person. In other words, the vast majority of online trolls probably lack the balls to troll IRL.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Actually it's not just annonymity, it's annonymity + not being within range of face punching or nut kicking. People are totallydifferent when they think they won't be caught and be won't be punished. When technology invents a way to deliver swift kicks to the nutz via the internet, or punches to the boobs... then trolls will shut up. Get to work scientists.!

Pretty much this^. It's true, it's not the trait of a sociopath or sadist to be a dick. As much as people might not want to admit it, the sole thing that keeps most people from being dicks to each other is the fear of punishment of some sort if they do. While there are plenty of people one could call trolls in real life (often called bullies or just plain dicks) they are that way either because they don't care about punishment or think they can get away with it, but if these people didn't have the threat of punishment hanging over their heads there would be far more. It's pretty much the same thing with most crimes, if they could get away with stealing for instance most of the people on the planet would be stealing everything that wasn't nailed down as a matter of course, and without the law to prevent it in the first place we wouldn't think it was wrong to do so. For trolls the internet provides an environment where they can be dicks to everybody and the only thing they have to fear is being banned from whatever forum they choose to do it in, which isn't much of a deterrent since they can just go somewhere else and pick up where they left off, and there's plenty of websites who don't give a rat's ass if they do to begin with.