Trolls Will Probably Troll Whether Online or Offline
- Thread starter Fanghawk
- Start date
Close enough. I'm the Paedofinder General from Monkey Dust. Or my avatar is, anyway.putowtin said:
That's not necessarily the -whole- point. Sure, positive reactions from people you know are welcome and certainly encouraging, but part of it is that it just feels good to make other people upset. It's power over others. You did a thing and got a major emotional reaction; you've proven that you have some power over that person. Their emotional well-being is in your hands. And power is quite intoxicating.Strazdas said:
Pathological LiarsYuuki said:
Rush Limbaugh, and Most of Fox News - a lot of what they say is to deliberately anger democrats.
Nancy Grace - Arguably trolled a women into committing suicide.
Andy Kaufman - King of all Trolls, if you watch man on the moon and say that isn't trolling then you're probably trolling.
Do you need more real world examples?
No. if you are doing it to make people upset you are not trolling. you are beign an asshole. trolling is making somone look funny without that person realizing it. yes, many people have mislabeled a lot of things as trolling, just like you did, that does not make it become trolling though.Fsyco said:
I think our definitions of 'trolling' are mis-aligned, then. I've always interpreted it as "deliberately fucking with people". That's the definition that's generally accepted in the 4Chan community, anyway. Do you have some kind of definitive proof otherwise? Cause I've never, ever heard anyone define 'trolling' so narrowly. The Oxford Dictionary lists 'troll' as a verb to 'submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response.' So. Doing it entirely for your own amusement is equally as valid as doing it to impress friends.Strazdas said:
To be honest, most people wouldnt know a real troll from an asshole, so i cant fault you there. not everyone was around and into it when trolling on the internet was born, add to that a large amount of people seeking to shift blame and label things by a word they heard somewhere. then there is plenty of people who claim they are trolling when they are just being assholes because that somehow absolves them of responsibility in thier mind, and we got this massive misconception.Fsyco said:
The dictionary also lists "miracle" as "something unlikely" because people kept misusing that word to the point where it started dominating. Same goes with gay (original meaning - happy) and fag (original meaning - a wooden stick). I guess language change caught up with trolling as well. As if "nuculer" (instead of nuclear) wasnt a low blow enough.
Well, English is a living language. Words change meaning over time. Hell, 'troll' originally meant 'strolling'. Also it refers to mythical beasts. 'Miracle' -is- often used to describe an unlikely positive event. And, well, 'gay' and 'fag' now mean the things that people say that they mean.Strazdas said:
Also, I'm pretty sure nobody says 'I'm trolling' to absolve themselves of responsibility. I never do. Mostly, you tell somebody that you're trolling or are a troll so that they'll be afraid of you and that everyone will know what a big bad meanie you are. Why? People hate and fear trolls, and hate and fear are power. You do it, if anything, to affirm how powerful you are, not to absolve yourself of it. And, as I've previously mentioned, sadists LOVE power. No really. I'd bathe in the stuff if I could.
yeah, i just hate when i have to change my language based on this when it looks ridiculous whne you knew the original meaning. Its like all those people who dont know what "nerd" means and complain about how people act. Heck, BOB actually corrected himself on what nerd means in his videos because in previuos ones he was talking nonesense.Fsyco said:
Just because you do not do it does not mean nobody does. trolling is not as bad as being an asshole in public eyes, therefore people will think people will just laugh and leave him alone. Its the whole "i insulted you but i was only joking so its not an insult" argument.
People do hate trolls but im not aware of anyone fearing them unless we talk about the mythological creatures that live under bridges (wait, bums are trolls?). why would you fear a troll?
That's not how language works. If a lot of people are "mislabeling" a word then you're the one mislabeling the word. Not them. Language is one of the most democratic processes known to man. The definition of a word is always majority rule. I'd point you to the urban dictionary, but google works just as well.Strazdas said:
Trolling Definition 2
"submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response."
The top Urban Dictionary definition also is similar, but credits the internet which is what the article was about.
Y'know, mate, for someone who claims to be a defender of the English language, you've got quite a few typos, spelling mistakes, and general lack of grammar. Kinda hurts your credibility. I'm still not sure why you're arguing this point, though, since 'troll' is pretty synonymous with 'sadistic asshole' everywhere I've been.Strazdas said:
See, this guy gets it. Languages change over time, and nobody complains about how 'plumbing' is no longer spelled 'plumming' (fun fact, alot of silent letters were added to words by scholars who wanted to remind everyone of their Latin roots.) That would just be silly.medv4380 said:
And of course people are afraid of trolls. A dedicated, skilled troll can absolutely ruin your day. Like those people that raid the memorial Facebook pages of suicide victims. Or people who engage in mass DDoS attacks. Fox News ran that whole scare-tactic video segment about 'Hackers on Steroids', which was designed to generate fear. Maybe the more internet-savvy person isn't so afraid of the big bad troll, and it isn't really a lurking-boogeyman type of fear, but it's still a fear.
This is true and i understand your point. The problem arrises when language change happens quickly. For example everyone uses one definition of the word. then few people decided to use it differently. then suddenly in a few years time almost everyone started using it differently. People who were using it before now feels like shit because they have to re-learn language.medv4380 said:
This is especially hitting home when the word that used to describe you now describes a completely different demography and you are just lumped with them because of that word.
English is only a second language to me, and i am far from perfect at it. I dont know if i can be caleld a defender of the language altrough i do think its a great and beatiful language and really one built the way languages should be built - as little BS as possible. (for example my language has 9 extra letters, ALL of them are variations of same standart letters, for example ą or ū. and they convolute it beyond belief, but im ranting now)Fsyco said:
Now i dont know what kind of places you visit, i usually meet people who consider trolls akin to pranksters. Then again, some people do hate pranksters too.
Well if people are enacting memorial facebook pages for suiciders (why do you call them victims? if they got murdered they are victims, if they suicided thats their own doing) and taking that seriuosly then no wonder they are afraid of trolls.
Yes, a dedicated and skilled troll can ruin your day. Very few such people exists. Its a skill like programming in assembly, i would fail horribly even if i would try my best.
DDoS is a criminal offence and not trolling. Same goes for hacking. Fox news ran plenty of fearmongering segments, not like any sane person would actually start fearing because of that.
Now you understand how my mother feels. Her middle name is Gay, and her parents were defiantly conservative religious types so it wasn't some hippy nonsense.Strazdas said:
As for the word Trolling you should expect it to change rapidly. It's describing an activity that most people were unfamiliar with, and accurately describing all the nuanced variation can't be held in a single word. The current general description works best because now you just have to append an adjective to get the more subtle variations.
Outside of political circles, most of the worlds first acknowledged experience with trolling was with Andy Kaufman. I'd also argue that one mans comedian is another mans troll. If you watch The Daily Show it's hard to make the claim that John, and Colbert aren't regularly trolling the RNC. However, the most accepted form of Trolling is when you're trolling yourself or your "group" which is why Jews can get away with saying the most Anti-semetic Jew jokes, and Blacks can get away with saying the most vile racist black jokes. These would be Funny Trolls, or in Andy's case the Andy Troll. Arguable Andy made more people angry then he ever made people laugh, but that's what happens when your audience is just yourself.
Political Trolls are fairly common throughout history. Opposing political parties always want to say something that will make someone made because it can, when successful like when Al Gore got Bill Bradly angry, destroy your opponent.
Atheist Trolls, Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Anton Levi Satanism, only exist and call themselves what they do to make Christians mad. Nativity scenes with a flying spaghetti monster and a Santa skeleton on a cross. I'm sure Atheist think it's funny, and I'm sure Christians just get mad.
Christian Trolls, harder to pinpoint, but the in-your-face "your going to hell" street side preaching is usually done just so they can get hit so they can "claim" that they are oppressed. Protestants and Catholics Trolls also like to Troll each other. After all it gives their social group a good laugh, and the group they dislike a bit of unbridled anger.
Gamer Trolls, the system wars have always had their share of Trolls.
The general definition makes understanding the problem far easier. The more specific definition hides the meaning, and makes people believe that the Internet makes people evil. When in reality it just makes their evil actions say in the spot light. In the real world you can just Ignore the troll, turn off their mic, or move along. On the internet it says visible until it's forcibly removed. Which increases it's effect size several magnitude when compared to the real world.