Trope-a-Dope

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I know quite a few people who need to read this.

 

[pantsoffdanceoff]

I really enjoyed the article although I don't watch movies very much (maybe one new one a month?), but its interesting what so many movies have in common.

 

[Eldarion]

I don't dislike Avatar because it isn't original, but because it does absolutely nothing unique in any way except for the CGI.

I disagree.

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

A ton of the small details where pretty original and the presentation of the whole thing made the movie a blast to watch. I honestly don't see how you can find NOTHING original about Avatar. There is soo much there.

It was completely unoriginal in narrative. The visuals were stunning. The world details in the other materials [http://www.pandorapedia.com/doku.php] were fascinating but largely not included in the movie. The cultures were not original, they weren't supposed to be, it would have ruined allegory and message.

So, it's great eye candy with a wealth of details implied but not examined in the movie. I liked the movie but I prefer more originality in narrative so I didn't think it should be lauded as great movie. But that's why it's art, people can disagree.

Indeed, our differences in opinion are what make for interesting conversation.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the it may not be original as a whole the shear amount of depth was stunning enough to make me like the movie.

I may just be biased though. I'm part native american and just love a good FUCK YOU WHITE MAN type movie XD

 

[Dudeakoff]

I don't dislike Avatar because it isn't original, but because it does absolutely nothing unique in any way except for the CGI.

I disagree.

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

A ton of the small details where pretty original and the presentation of the whole thing made the movie a blast to watch. I honestly don't see how you can find NOTHING original about Avatar. There is soo much there.

I would have to disagree with you on the idea that the movie plunged into any great detail with regards to almost anything. I'd especially have to disagree with the thought that the film went into detail with any of the characters.
The movie was about the visuals and the planet's ecosystem, the story and characters were secondary to that and suffered for it.
Good movies 'hide' their clichés with detail and engaging characters. When a film gets called out on how cliché it is, I usually see it as a result of the movie giving the audience little else to engage with.

 

[Silk_Sk]

He he, tvtropes. I once told my English teacher that a story we had read had a "Diablos ex machina" ending and she said she would fail me if I ever spoke that term again.

 

[Saarai-fan]

The subject this intermission goes into reminds me of somewhat the moral that the South Park episode "Simpsons Already Did It" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpsons_Already_Did_It] made. Lots of movies, tv shows, and other forms of entertainment are similar to something that was already made in the past, but that shouldn't take away the fact many of those things were still good or entertaining. Yes, orginality is important to some degree, but making the film well executed and fresh matters just as much.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

Then I guess I missed a whole lot of story. Nothing about the Na'vi seemed interesting or involving, they were just the typical benovolent treehuggers. Nature can be just as evil and ruthless as humanity and if the Na'vi are in touch with that then some of that heart of darkness should intermingle with them. But everything about them was pure and good without even the least bit of fault.
And the humans were evil because they had guns. You don't hear anything about Earth in the 22d century or why unobtanium is so important that it's worth risking billions of dollars and thousands of human lives. I'm not even mentioning the culture shock that must've come with discovering a lush and inhabited alien planet.
Plus, the character of Jake was as flat and tasteless as bag of flower. There was no sense of conquest or suspense, because everyting he did he succeeded at in the very first try. He captures a legendary beast that none of the Na'vi had conquered in ages just by snapping his fingers? I'm sorry, but in order for me to have a little respect for a character he or she needs to atleast break a sweat.

A ton of the small details where pretty original and the presentation of the whole thing made the movie a blast to watch. I honestly don't see how you can find NOTHING original about Avatar. There is soo much there.

I guess the squigly sushi that came out of the Na'vi's pony tails was original. But I found that whole thing very silly and unnessecary. I don't mind that they have a literal connection with nature, but they could've made it that the nerv endings in the palms of their hands and feet were super sensitive to bio energy, or someting.

I don't hate this movie, I just found the whole thing, except for the GCI, very bare bones. Good looking bones as they may be, but still bare.

 

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

I have the strange feeling that, by linking TVTropes in your article repeatedly, the sheer number of folks who probably lost the last several paragraphs of the article, much less those who would comment, are now lost in a self-fueling romp through the ever-loved TV-Wiki.

As far as the sentiment goes, it's hard to imagine a world that isn't as competitive as this one. It means that Everyone has to be faster, stronger, better, and more knowledgeable than everyone else. It's made casual games of Trivial Pursuit become taunt-filled evenings of challenges and bets. It's given any game online scoreboards, everything a clear winner or loser. Sports become less about sports, and end up becoming important in sportsmanship. So is it any surprise that "I know more than you." has become a national pastime with something that would otherwise just be about entertainment.

So, to be brief, I think this all boils down to Que sera, sera.

 

[Pseudonym2]

I never got the complaints that Avatar was too much like Pocahontas or Dancing with With Wolves. It's an allegory of the material that those two movies were based on. It's like complaining that Animal Farm is Stalin with Pigs.

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

Thank you, exactly what I was thinking.

There are a lot of jaded twats on the internet, even here on this site.

Hear that guys? No one thinks your cool.

Exemplifying this trope [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HypocriticalHumor].

 

[Jandau]

Trope-a-Dope

We're all Mister Know-It-All now.

Read Full Article

Bob, I've love your Game Overthinker, I love Escape to the Movies and in general think you are fairly awesome. However, this is easily the best thing I've seen from you. Granted, this is entirely on a subjective level, but I have an overpowering urge to revisit dozens of forum threads and conversations just to shove these three pages of text in the faces of some people.

Excellent work!

 

[Altorin]

Thank you, exactly what I was thinking.

There are a lot of jaded twats on the internet, even here on this site.

Hear that guys? No one thinks your cool.

the internet responds with "the feeling's mutual buddy"

Also, bob, for thread title, we would have also excepted Trope on a Rope

 

[Cousin_IT]

This essay on how knowing too much makes you jaded to new things & leaves said people liking nothing more than to inform other people how crap things are is too much like Voltaire's description of Candide's visit to the house of Senator Pococurante. Try to be more original next time :smug:

 

[Normalgamer]

Thank you, exactly what I was thinking.

There are a lot of jaded twats on the internet, even here on this site.

Hear that guys? No one thinks your cool.

My mom thinks I'm cool. Bro.

 

[TOGSolid]

I never got the complaints that Avatar was too much like Pocahontas or Dancing with With Wolves. It's an allegory of the material that those two movies were based on. It's like complaining that Animal Farm is Stalin with Pigs.

It's not that it's just similiar to those movies, it's just that it's so blatant about just being yet another Native American movie only all the indians are painted blue. There's being LIKE something else, and then there's just flat out plagiarizing it. Regardless, my personal issues with Avatar weren't so much about the plot, but had a lot more to do with Cameron's needless dicking around and time wasting in the flick. About the only positive comments I've heard about Avatar all stem from one basic thing "Ohhh, it's so pretty" and it takes a lot more than just neat CGI to make me give a shit about a movie.

On topic: I can't tell if this was just a general rant about internet know it alls, or just yet another "boo hoo, my vagina hurts" rant about how he doesn't understand people could not like Avatar.

 

[TJF588]

HYNEDAMMIIIIIIT!!! I HATE when I lose my post! Especially when I've typed a fuckload and was almost done! Dammit, Escapist, stop refreshing! Fugah!

Y'know, I don't feel like reiterating what I was gonna post. Not now. Let's see if I can bulletpoint it and drop the couple vids I wanted down.

* Avoiding/Disregarding something despite its details and/or attention to detail and execution is a dick move for yourself and others.
* In hanging with my sister whose TV is set to Disney Channel too much, I've found redeeming (or at least not-offensive-to-my-brain) moments/aspects in some of the most decried [children's] TV of our time.
* (Whoever made the commercial for some special Hhaannuh Mhontaanuh episode don't know the dissonance of the upbeat music, pause, finish out setup of a joke to a [melo]dramatic line ("If I knew Lilly'd be annoying to live with, [pause] I wouldn't've invited her." [paraphrase]).)
* (Hearing the lyrics (or something close) of the horrible "JoBros" song "Sady Hawkins Dance" (how is that spelled?) in an episode with that premise caused me dread (but the TV's off after expressing my distress).)
* No matter the details put in, if the tropes don't feel right or natural (unless it's a comedy, which need (at the least) only be [rule of] funny), which if the creator of a literally epic seven-part The Phantom Menace review is as right on Avatar as he was for SWEpI, I may have no interest in Cameron's new flick (esp. with those "Disney eyes").
[youtube]uJarz7BYnHA[/youtube]
[youtube]dLzKwTcGO_0[/youtube]

* [insert badly typed outcry about having a paragraph-closing quotation mark mid-'dialog']
* [cue marvel at realising "dialog" is a word [to Opera's spellchecker], then wonder at what [I'd known] it means]
* [NEW [for this]: being bothered both at the spellchecker underlining "realising" and that I type such words with "s"[e]s instead of "z"[e]s very often]
* [NEW: why is a Super Bowl Announcement on the related videos for an Avatar review (a Featured Video by barelypolitical (a name which now intrigues me), and why do I see "Heidi Montag" as "Hannah Montana"? aside, I went with "Heidi" as a default name on PKMN Platinum to in speeding through for an early-game quote, and now I've seen the name twice since (less than a school week, for shizzle, I think); such coincidences...)

EDIT:

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

The technology and biology of the forest things seem like technical aspects, which I've found with my own little story-in-my-head that while I like the mechanics of my own little world (which over time I find to be more and more unoriginal, but I like their solidarities), my actual "story" part is less interesting than the fight arcs of Dragon Ball Z.

And I squee at seeing someone use "all that jazz".

 

[Zombie_Fish]

I must say, I really like this article.

To be honest, I've never really understood what's so addictive about TV Tropes that some people would regularly keep 300+ tabs open [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.155308-What-Do-you-expect-from-us#3786883] just for that site. Sure it can be informative when looking into fiction across all forms of media, but it's just something I've never thought of being that interesting, or something that I would want to read addictively.

I'm also pretty sure this article has guaranteed me no longer becoming fond of that website either. As informative and enlightening it may be, becoming that skilled in reading between the lines and ignoring the small details that make the scenes different from one another to tear apart the cliches is something I don't want to do. I'd much rather be the person who has seen such a theme presented once or twice and think of it as original and clever then and there.

I don't dislike Avatar because it isn't original, but because it does absolutely nothing unique in any way except for the CGI.

Isn't that essentially the same thing? Original means it hasn't been done before, and unique means there's nothing else like it. I'm not understanding the difference between something being unoriginal and something not having anything unique about it.

 

[TJF588]

To be honest, I've never really understood what's so addictive about TV Tropes that some people would regularly keep 300+ tabs open [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.155308-What-Do-you-expect-from-us#3786883] just for that site. ...
As informative and enlightening it may be, becoming that skilled in reading between the lines and ignoring the small details that make the scenes different from one another to tear apart the cliches is something I don't want to do.

1) It's because of all the links in the midst of an article that you right-click and open the tab in the background, then go on reading the page you're on, then continue with the next. It's like a Hydra of interest-relevance.
2) Usually it's all in fun, and there's humor in both just listing so many things by themselves, there's also the elaborations of any entry's particularities, since they're usually written by someone in such a way that you laugh at their anger, their dismay, their sadness (as in getting all teary), and their amusement on a subject. They point out the similarities and the defining factors.

 

[CD-R]

KNOCK IT OFF! YOU ARE NOT A JADED ACADEMIC! YOU HAVE NOT 'SEEN IT ALL BEFORE!' YOU JUST READ IT ON TV TROPES BECAUSE YOU HAD AN HOUR TO KILL BETWEEN LUNCH AND FIREFLY RERUNS! NOW SHUT THE HELL UP AND APOLOGIZE TO THE 10 YEAR-OLD YOU JUST SPENT TWENTY MINUTES CHEWING OUT FOR NOT REALIZING THAT KRULL HAD A GIANT SPIDER BEFORE HARRY POTTER DID!"

And on this day new copypasta was born.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

"Until the day that they would realize, with unfolding horror, the toll of their quest: That in seeking only the 'original' they had forgone the power to perceive all else. That they would never again be able to recognize 'beautiful,' 'moving' or even 'frightening'... unable to truly see anything but for the dust it was made of. That having 'seen everything before' means you never really see anything again."

"Aha", said the young man, "I can tell you the tale of a man captured by aliens who have seen everything, but he manages to tell them something completely original."

The aliens sighed and said "Twilight Zone - The New Series : I Of Newton."

"Bollocks" said the young man.