EDIT IN: This reminds me of a story I heard from 40k Radio. They spoke with one of the community manager of GW. They asked "Why did you take down the forums, why did you remove the Facebook page, so on?"
The response? "We didn't see the point. All that happened is we would be constantly attacked with a toxic attitude, and so we just stopped doing it." (Much like Anita Sarkessian does, I note).
The attitude in the online community is so vitriolic that they have to stop saying who wrote which books, and a certain man known as Matt Ward had death threats and everything because he dared to say that one particular faction who wrote the rules that everyone in their position used are seen as exemplars of their kind.
Example?
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Matthew_Ward (I have to admit, this page is funny as hell though)
Grumman said:
Everything Leon says is garbage, most notably the idea that spending 136 pounds and two months before you get your first game in is an acceptable investment, when all that gets you is the bare minimum legal army (and legal does not mean the rules actually function at that level) and no rules to actually play a game.
Well, don't get into gaming then, a good PC can cost maybe £400, and then you have to buy the games...
Well, don't get into biking then, a good bike can cost £500, and then you have to pay to take it to good locations...
Well, don't travel then, going to a place, getting food, getting a hotel, etc.
If spending time and money to put together your hobby is too much for you, maybe it isn't a hobby for you? If painting miniatures isn't your thing, then go find a board game where they provide for you models, board, rules and so on for 4 people for maybe £25.
Yes, there are alternatives, but clearly, anything which requires investment is wrong...
Rellik San said:
"Only in Snip does reading end."
Which is fine if you're playing Mehreenz, D/Eldar or to a lesser extent Cronz and Tau... but what happens, when your the kid that thinks those cool xenomorph looking Tyrannid dudes are awesome... or those Ork dudes were fun in DoW? And all of a sudden your financial investment is double/triple that of your friends just to bring the same points to the table?
If ALL you care about is money, then don't pick an army which is known for having a fuck-ton of models. Why do you think that Paladin spam became so popular? It was powerful AND you only needed about 15 models.
Yes, a horde army does require you to have more models. If you like Orks, why not just have two units of Nobs and a Warboss? Lots of points, throw it as an Unbound and you have a 500pt army for VERY small games. Then slowly build up to a bigger army.
Better yet, you like a Deffdread, a Big Mek, some Burna Boyz, a Fighta-Bomma and Grotz? Pick those up, throw it as Unbound and play 500pts. You don't even need the basic two Troops and an HQ anymore.
Karadalis said:
"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only snip"
Carefull there, someone might think youre a fanboy with the way youre desperatly trying to defend a company thats known for selling their own souls to make a quick buck.
Yeah, nothing insults me like saying I like something. Dear god, the horror...
Or I am just sick of the constant bitching by the 40k community that EVERYTHING GW touches is a personal insult to you. If you think the Mass Effect bitching is bad, I suggest you spend half an hour on a 40k forum when GW releases something. The hatred for a product they don't need to buy is intense.
They are douchebags for suing fansites out of existance, trying to sue an author for using the word "space marine" in his/her book, Treating their customers like crap and butchering their own IPs in the name of the allmighty dollar so blatantly that even hardcore fans are not giving a fuck anymore. They totaly destroyed the black library with their "pay 3 dollars for 12 pages mini stories" bullcrap when 15-20 dollars used to get you a 300 page long novel.
You want to blame on the Space Marine thing, blame crappy IP law, not GW.
They sue fansites when they post too much information, like entire rules which GW has the IP to. They kinda have to, or why would anyone buy their things? It's like the whole "piracy argument" applies.
Treating their customers like crap? By releasing new rules and new models, or their customer service? Or is it because the Centurions are a personal insult? I'm confused.
Also, the IP has never been stable. You know of Obi-Wan Sherlock the Inquisitor, right? Or Kruellagh the Vile? Hell, even the Orks have Mag-Uruk Thraka (Magaret Thatcher). Or the Squats? Or that the C'tan represented the gods and Necrons had no personalities?
Also:
"Black Library, you don't release enough stories quickly enough"
Okay, we shall release short stories.
"Oh my god, you're cashing in, you heartless fucks"
Regarding price increases, if you don't buy hardback, GW is comparable to every sci-fi novel series. It's not Penguin books.
They release "updated" rulebooks every year or so that you have to buy for full price over and over and over again. Im sorry but if you have to buy a new book to be able to keep playing your army every year or so its not going to happen. Especialy that each time a new codex for your army comes out you can spin the "what did they fucked up this time to promote their new OP shit" wheel of fortune and hope that your army will somehow still be usable afterwards. Meanwhile other armies havent seen a codex in over a decade by now (sisters of grey knight sacrifice anyone?)
A new book every year? So the Orks who waited a decade? Or the Dark Eldar who waited 13 years for an update, and then another 6? Or the Sisters of Battle? Or the Blood Angels?
Even the Space Marines only have an update every edition... except this edition.
Also please explain to me when space marines inside of space marines ever where a thing before they where introduced to have a new shiny toy that absolutely doesnt fit into the lore just to have a new shiny overprized toy to sell?
You're right. GW should never change the lore ever. It should have released every army, and then stopped and said "Job done, we finished Warhammer 40k, there is nothing else to explore."
-------------------------------
I think it fits fine. "Oh no," says Brother Captain SoandSo, "the 1st Company are busy dealing with Genestealers and we need to bring down these fortifications fast before we get trapped. Have the Land Raider bring forth the Centurions."
The Assualt Marines, those training for close combat, quickly entered the suits and tore down the walls, allowing their brothers in with them acting as Vanguard.
--------------------------------
Or would you rather we didn't move from 1st edition, when the Ultramarines had a half-Eldar, half-human Librarian?
Games workshop is hurting.. and its hurting bad. It doesnt matter what little growth there is in forge world when the main manufacturer cant peddle his wares anymore to a large enough audience. And you rooting for them wont change that.
Yes, buying a companies product has never helped them or hurt them.
And we have a new CEO. Let's see what he does. Or do you believe that they remove his brain before letting him take the job?
And the fact that there are now alot of Mini wargame systems out there that are alot cheaper while having better rules and more affordable minis with decent quality is only one more nail in their coffin.
Walk into nearly any shop and ask who plays Warmachine. Some. Ask who plays Infinity. Some. Ask who has a 40k army. Most will raise their hands.
Better rules? Warmachine rules have no heart, Infinity cannot do large battles, Flames of War is focused solely on World War 2, and most importantly, NONE of them are Warhammer 40,000. The setting, the story, the Chaos Gods, the heroes and villians, Imperium, Eldar, Necrons, the lot. 40k has its setting.
But yes, I do agree, GW does need to address these concerns. But it's a company with no debt and still the best IP in wargaming. It's hardly in a terminal dive.
You can like them as much as you want but the writings on the wall. Either they get their shit together and act like a business or they will ram said business right into the ground.
Yes. They need a change of leadership. Which they have. Let's see if he'll do.
Their stuff is to expensive and the market wont buy it anymore given the alternatives of those who are still interested in miniature wargaming.
But then I look around at Warmachine, I look at whatever it is that Battlefoam is selling, I look at Infinity, and they cost the same nowadays. The only difference is I have to buy less. In exchange, I can't do large battles, I have to be focused on winning only instead of whatever setting they have (they don't), and I have to hope the other people will get into it too.
Thats the cold hard truth of the matter.
Yep, that's the hard, cold, purely subjective truth of the matter.
Diddy_Mao said:
I've rightly been acknowledged as a GW apologist. I don't have quite the same vitriolic hatred for their business model as some folks do.
That being said, kindly knock that "web exclusive" shit off. Almost every army I've started is because I went to the shop to buy some Orks, browsed through the shelves to find some kits that had fun bits to cannibalize and ended up buying the seeds for a new army.
That kind of thing is damn near impossible when over 50% of your stock can't be purchased from the store.
Yeah, I agree with this. I also wished they'd consider sales, or at least the occasional discount. I also wish they'd drop the shipping barrier down to £20 again.