Troubled Games Workshop Appoints New CEO for 2015

[Karadalis]

ANOTHER updated ruleset for warhammer 40k?

Wasnt there one just last year? You know GW.. maybe you throwing to much shit around might be a reason why you hurt so much right now.. you know.. besides being total douchebags to your fans and customers... and overcharging by a giant margin for your products that have lost alot of quality in recent years (finecast/cratercast)... and butchering your own lore (speezmereenes inside speezmereenes)

Well, the last edition update was 3 years ago, which had some MAJOR problems. 7th Edition has fixed almost all of them, and is widely agreed to actually be the most fun and (mostly) balanced edition since 4th.

Also, you say they're being douchebags because.... They are now releasing all those models they removed because they can now get around Chapterhouse feeding off their IP, or is it because of their amazing customer service, or perhaps it's because that people have complained about their rules not being updated so now GW has vastly increased their production... Maybe it's the way they revamped White Dwarf so people always have something interesting every week, another complaint fixed, or is it their famously amazing customer service?

No, that's right, they're massive arseholes because they don't listen only to you or the prices are high.

Carefull there, someone might think youre a fanboy with the way youre desperatly trying to defend a company thats known for selling their own souls to make a quick buck.

They are douchebags for suing fansites out of existance, trying to sue an author for using the word "space marine" in his/her book, Treating their customers like crap and butchering their own IPs in the name of the allmighty dollar so blatantly that even hardcore fans are not giving a fuck anymore. They totaly destroyed the black library with their "pay 3 dollars for 12 pages mini stories" bullcrap when 15-20 dollars used to get you a 300 page long novel.

They release "updated" rulebooks every year or so that you have to buy for full price over and over and over again. Im sorry but if you have to buy a new book to be able to keep playing your army every year or so its not going to happen. Especialy that each time a new codex for your army comes out you can spin the "what did they fucked up this time to promote their new OP shit" wheel of fortune and hope that your army will somehow still be usable afterwards. Meanwhile other armies havent seen a codex in over a decade by now (sisters of grey knight sacrifice anyone?)

Also please explain to me when space marines inside of space marines ever where a thing before they where introduced to have a new shiny toy that absolutely doesnt fit into the lore just to have a new shiny overprized toy to sell?

Games workshop is hurting.. and its hurting bad. It doesnt matter what little growth there is in forge world when the main manufacturer cant peddle his wares anymore to a large enough audience. And you rooting for them wont change that.

And the fact that there are now alot of Mini wargame systems out there that are alot cheaper while having better rules and more affordable minis with decent quality is only one more nail in their coffin.

You can like them as much as you want but the writings on the wall. Either they get their shit together and act like a business or they will ram said business right into the ground.

Their stuff is to expensive and the market wont buy it anymore given the alternatives of those who are still interested in miniature wargaming.

Thats the cold hard truth of the matter.

 

[Rellik San]

-snip-

They release "updated" rulebooks every year or so that you have to buy for full price over and over and over again. Im sorry but if you have to buy a new book to be able to keep playing your army every year or so its not going to happen. Especialy that each time a new codex for your army comes out you can spin the "what did they fucked up this time to promote their new OP shit" wheel of fortune and hope that your army will somehow still be usable afterwards. Meanwhile other armies havent seen a codex in over a decade by now (sisters of grey knight sacrifice anyone?)

Also please explain to me when space marines inside of space marines ever where a thing before they where introduced to have a new shiny toy that absolutely doesnt fit into the lore just to have a new shiny overprized toy to sell?
.

Speaking as an Ork player... asking my Black Templar playing friend, asking my sister who used to play Sisters of Battle: Wadda ya mean "annual updates"? This years Codex was my first in nearly a decade. Look I'm all for GW bashing, they have some shady practices... but this complaint LITERALLY makes no sense. They release a new corebook, nothing stoppping you from playing the older editions of the game, hell I still like to have hilariously broken second edition battles (dat Dark Millenium expansion tho). Realistically when it comes to the new Codices and Rules... unless you're playing in an official tournament... you don't have to use them. By the way: Sisters got a free downloadable Codex just this year... and the piece of fluff you're referring too, was put out by Matt Ward in likely something he did because he thought it sounded cool. The new GK codex retcons that... so yeah...

By that logic: Please explain to me, where the fuck things like Storm Raven gunships come from: I've play Space Marine and Epic and Titan Legions... and those suckers don't exist in those games. The "I DUN LIEK CENTURIONS!" argument, just seems to stem from people not liking the model... if you don't like the model, don't buy it, to be honest tactically it's almost worthless anyway, as for 40k lore: "I DUN LIEK IT CUZ ITZ STOOPID!" this is a world in which Ork technology works, because they believe it does, they've slightly altered this now... but it used to be if an Ork picked up a piece of vaguely gun shaped scrap and was convinced it was a gun... it would fire like a gun... but Marines in what's basically gyro stabilised exo suits for using super heavy weapons that would probably topple them over otherwise is too much for you? That's the logical fallacy your brain can't parse?

 

[L. Declis]

EDIT IN: This reminds me of a story I heard from 40k Radio. They spoke with one of the community manager of GW. They asked "Why did you take down the forums, why did you remove the Facebook page, so on?"

The response? "We didn't see the point. All that happened is we would be constantly attacked with a toxic attitude, and so we just stopped doing it." (Much like Anita Sarkessian does, I note).

The attitude in the online community is so vitriolic that they have to stop saying who wrote which books, and a certain man known as Matt Ward had death threats and everything because he dared to say that one particular faction who wrote the rules that everyone in their position used are seen as exemplars of their kind.

Example?
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Matthew_Ward (I have to admit, this page is funny as hell though)

Everything Leon says is garbage, most notably the idea that spending 136 pounds and two months before you get your first game in is an acceptable investment, when all that gets you is the bare minimum legal army (and legal does not mean the rules actually function at that level) and no rules to actually play a game.

Well, don't get into gaming then, a good PC can cost maybe £400, and then you have to buy the games...
Well, don't get into biking then, a good bike can cost £500, and then you have to pay to take it to good locations...
Well, don't travel then, going to a place, getting food, getting a hotel, etc.

If spending time and money to put together your hobby is too much for you, maybe it isn't a hobby for you? If painting miniatures isn't your thing, then go find a board game where they provide for you models, board, rules and so on for 4 people for maybe £25.

Yes, there are alternatives, but clearly, anything which requires investment is wrong...

"Only in Snip does reading end."

Which is fine if you're playing Mehreenz, D/Eldar or to a lesser extent Cronz and Tau... but what happens, when your the kid that thinks those cool xenomorph looking Tyrannid dudes are awesome... or those Ork dudes were fun in DoW? And all of a sudden your financial investment is double/triple that of your friends just to bring the same points to the table?

If ALL you care about is money, then don't pick an army which is known for having a fuck-ton of models. Why do you think that Paladin spam became so popular? It was powerful AND you only needed about 15 models.

Yes, a horde army does require you to have more models. If you like Orks, why not just have two units of Nobs and a Warboss? Lots of points, throw it as an Unbound and you have a 500pt army for VERY small games. Then slowly build up to a bigger army.

Better yet, you like a Deffdread, a Big Mek, some Burna Boyz, a Fighta-Bomma and Grotz? Pick those up, throw it as Unbound and play 500pts. You don't even need the basic two Troops and an HQ anymore.

"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only snip"

Carefull there, someone might think youre a fanboy with the way youre desperatly trying to defend a company thats known for selling their own souls to make a quick buck.

Yeah, nothing insults me like saying I like something. Dear god, the horror...

Or I am just sick of the constant bitching by the 40k community that EVERYTHING GW touches is a personal insult to you. If you think the Mass Effect bitching is bad, I suggest you spend half an hour on a 40k forum when GW releases something. The hatred for a product they don't need to buy is intense.

They are douchebags for suing fansites out of existance, trying to sue an author for using the word "space marine" in his/her book, Treating their customers like crap and butchering their own IPs in the name of the allmighty dollar so blatantly that even hardcore fans are not giving a fuck anymore. They totaly destroyed the black library with their "pay 3 dollars for 12 pages mini stories" bullcrap when 15-20 dollars used to get you a 300 page long novel.

You want to blame on the Space Marine thing, blame crappy IP law, not GW.
They sue fansites when they post too much information, like entire rules which GW has the IP to. They kinda have to, or why would anyone buy their things? It's like the whole "piracy argument" applies.

Treating their customers like crap? By releasing new rules and new models, or their customer service? Or is it because the Centurions are a personal insult? I'm confused.

Also, the IP has never been stable. You know of Obi-Wan Sherlock the Inquisitor, right? Or Kruellagh the Vile? Hell, even the Orks have Mag-Uruk Thraka (Magaret Thatcher). Or the Squats? Or that the C'tan represented the gods and Necrons had no personalities?

Also:
"Black Library, you don't release enough stories quickly enough"
Okay, we shall release short stories.
"Oh my god, you're cashing in, you heartless fucks"

Regarding price increases, if you don't buy hardback, GW is comparable to every sci-fi novel series. It's not Penguin books.

They release "updated" rulebooks every year or so that you have to buy for full price over and over and over again. Im sorry but if you have to buy a new book to be able to keep playing your army every year or so its not going to happen. Especialy that each time a new codex for your army comes out you can spin the "what did they fucked up this time to promote their new OP shit" wheel of fortune and hope that your army will somehow still be usable afterwards. Meanwhile other armies havent seen a codex in over a decade by now (sisters of grey knight sacrifice anyone?)

A new book every year? So the Orks who waited a decade? Or the Dark Eldar who waited 13 years for an update, and then another 6? Or the Sisters of Battle? Or the Blood Angels?

Even the Space Marines only have an update every edition... except this edition.

Also please explain to me when space marines inside of space marines ever where a thing before they where introduced to have a new shiny toy that absolutely doesnt fit into the lore just to have a new shiny overprized toy to sell?

You're right. GW should never change the lore ever. It should have released every army, and then stopped and said "Job done, we finished Warhammer 40k, there is nothing else to explore."

-------------------------------
I think it fits fine. "Oh no," says Brother Captain SoandSo, "the 1st Company are busy dealing with Genestealers and we need to bring down these fortifications fast before we get trapped. Have the Land Raider bring forth the Centurions."

The Assualt Marines, those training for close combat, quickly entered the suits and tore down the walls, allowing their brothers in with them acting as Vanguard.
--------------------------------

Or would you rather we didn't move from 1st edition, when the Ultramarines had a half-Eldar, half-human Librarian?

Games workshop is hurting.. and its hurting bad. It doesnt matter what little growth there is in forge world when the main manufacturer cant peddle his wares anymore to a large enough audience. And you rooting for them wont change that.

Yes, buying a companies product has never helped them or hurt them.

And we have a new CEO. Let's see what he does. Or do you believe that they remove his brain before letting him take the job?

And the fact that there are now alot of Mini wargame systems out there that are alot cheaper while having better rules and more affordable minis with decent quality is only one more nail in their coffin.

Walk into nearly any shop and ask who plays Warmachine. Some. Ask who plays Infinity. Some. Ask who has a 40k army. Most will raise their hands.

Better rules? Warmachine rules have no heart, Infinity cannot do large battles, Flames of War is focused solely on World War 2, and most importantly, NONE of them are Warhammer 40,000. The setting, the story, the Chaos Gods, the heroes and villians, Imperium, Eldar, Necrons, the lot. 40k has its setting.

But yes, I do agree, GW does need to address these concerns. But it's a company with no debt and still the best IP in wargaming. It's hardly in a terminal dive.

You can like them as much as you want but the writings on the wall. Either they get their shit together and act like a business or they will ram said business right into the ground.

Yes. They need a change of leadership. Which they have. Let's see if he'll do.

Their stuff is to expensive and the market wont buy it anymore given the alternatives of those who are still interested in miniature wargaming.

But then I look around at Warmachine, I look at whatever it is that Battlefoam is selling, I look at Infinity, and they cost the same nowadays. The only difference is I have to buy less. In exchange, I can't do large battles, I have to be focused on winning only instead of whatever setting they have (they don't), and I have to hope the other people will get into it too.

Thats the cold hard truth of the matter.

Yep, that's the hard, cold, purely subjective truth of the matter.

I've rightly been acknowledged as a GW apologist. I don't have quite the same vitriolic hatred for their business model as some folks do.

That being said, kindly knock that "web exclusive" shit off. Almost every army I've started is because I went to the shop to buy some Orks, browsed through the shelves to find some kits that had fun bits to cannibalize and ended up buying the seeds for a new army.

That kind of thing is damn near impossible when over 50% of your stock can't be purchased from the store.

Yeah, I agree with this. I also wished they'd consider sales, or at least the occasional discount. I also wish they'd drop the shipping barrier down to £20 again.

 

[Harry Mason]

Yeah, I hope they go down in flames and some less abusive, more interesting wargames rise from the ashes. If it wasn't for the huge love people have for the mythos, GW would have been destroyed by it's own terrible business practices years ago. I mean, CrapCast should have been their death rattle.

 

[softclocks]

I always wanted to get into this but just didn't have the money.

Hopefully he'll turn that ship around and make it easier on "outiders".

 

[Rot_At_The_Root]

A lot of what people defending games workshop are saying is completely reasonable but the truth in my case was that GW priced me out of 40k. I started playing in the late 80's and took the usual break and returned to the game in 2002, this time as an adult with both time and a disposable income. I love collecting armies but could just not justify the cost anymore thanks to the continual rules changes and army updates. I wanted to play the latest edition of the rules because that gave me access to a wider selection of opponents so i had to pay for it. My (very small) local group stopped at 4th edition and we all used a lot of third party minis but were never very happy about it. Discounts, lowers prices, and sales would have contributed greatly to me staying with 40k as a hobby, it would have made it easier to deal with codex and rules updates if it had all been cheaper. I'm not asking for bargain basement/poundshop prices, but £25 for ten models? no thanks. Both my sons would play with me using my miniatures, but they wanted their own stuff as well. Even though they didn't need rules books or paint/scenery as i already had them, the prohibitive cost of miniatures meant it would very often mean waiting a ridiculous amount of time for them to save up enough money to get what they wanted.

So discounts/sales/ lower prices would have brought in a reduced income for GW from my pockets, but pricing me out of it completely? Now they get nothing at all.

 

[Ambitiousmould]

Games Workshop is a wanker of a company. Very overpriced, shite practices when it comes to copyright and such (tried to sue someone for putting "Space Marine" in a book) and overly frequent releasing of new edition and army books/codices. However, out of the Wargames that I have sampled, 40k is my favourite (despite the increasing in power of the more favourite factions) and the community are generally great people, with a great sense of humour (even if they do often become irrationally angry at some things). The pricing, though, isn't so bad if you look at it like this:

My 2500 point Tau army (which is a pretty high point army) has cost me about £500-£600. Including glue and paints. I have then spent about £50 on scenery (I make my own from foamcore) and a table (a piece of plywood on legs). So that's £650-ish.

My PC cost me £715. And that's the best deal I could get and is about mid to low end of the high range of PCs. Gaming keyboard and mouse (not a necessity, I admit, but neither is the scenery for 40k) cost me £113. That' already £178 more expensive and I couldn't play with this because it doesn't include games. And once I do have game I would still have to pay for internet and/or power. Now, admittedly, that last point is a bit silly, but you absolutely don't need them for 40k. So as a hobby it really isn't very expensive. Neither is PC gaming, compared to, say golf or sport shooting or skiing or track racing.

My point is that really, when looked at alongside a lot of other hobbies, it's pretty acceptable. Any hobby needs time, effort and money.

I suppose that was a bit off-topic, so on-topic: Ok. It'd be good if he issued price cuts, but I doubt he will.

 

[Rellik San]

"Only in Snip does reading end."

"quotes for the quote god, snips for the snip throne

Because it's no fun being curb stomped. I actually think there is a much easier solution for this myself: Sell boxes of clip together models for the same price (like the AoBR ones), but with 20 models. Modellers and sculpters will still want the bespoke box, but if you're getting started, you just want models to play with and that strikes me as a happy middle ground, the molds are already there, you're not spending a fortune on moulding custom options but encouraging younger players into the game. For £25 I'd happy buy a box of clip together choppa boys, if I want shoota boys, I have to buy the premium box, I think that's fair as most games clubs and friends will let you proxy choppa for slugga boys. Hell, even just sell it as a box of 15 clip together models for £25, it's just a better value proposition in my opinion, keeps your over heads cheap, looks better to starting players and old players whilst at the same time, actually equivalent cost to the old 3 clip together booster boxes you could get.

Remember also, your opponent has to agree to unbound and if you're playing at a local game club they may not look favourably on them. I see where you're coming from though. Also for 500pts of Orks, you'd still need to pad that out with a unit of boys and maybe a heavy option... Orks be cheap as ballz now yo (points wise anyway). My point is hook 'em with the game and as they play better opponents with cooler models, they'll want those models and buy more premium kits.

 

[Coruptin]

i've heard that the prices for gw models are actually pretty consistent with the rise of inflation, but our incomes fail to rise along with inflation thus leading to an even greater sense of price hikes.

 

[LordMonty]

I love GW, worked in a store many years ago but alas I fear for them as they've become dependant on rasing prices to keep profitable. Now they're reaching the very roof with how much they can get away with charging and have lost a large amount of support and customers due to this.

They needed to expand there sales and with average within inflation prices rises happening only when they must. But having hurt their player base so much with out pricing the average person its not a mere price cut or freeze to fix the problem, they need to get customers back and make they stores hobby centres again(building scenery and converting figures, but this'll be tough with the one man stores) I don't know what they need to do to fix this but its worrying alas.

Surely someone in Nottingham though they were screwed years back but I guess when your making money hand over fist its easy to ignore logic.

 

[shial]

A big problem they had was the forced upgrade cycle. They had poor balance and there was a constant power creep that heavily favors the last army they rolled out. This left some armies as vastly underpowered, even moreso when the base rules changed and they were left behind. I started out with Necron, they were two editions behind when they final got an update, meanwhile other armies had jumped considerably in power (encouraging everybody to buy more models of that army).

Rather than dealing with their fans concerns they turned a blind eye and said its my way or the highway, then seemed surprised when people said bye to either drop out or go to competitors who had more focus on listening and balance.

I had two armies fully painted and each could field up to 3000 points. One army was completely obsoleted by multiple edition changes (It became a complete paper tiger) the other was holding its own but the newest army books had such a power jump and imbalance I would need to do a bunch of retooling just to counter that. Plus spending two hours on a game that you are losing is a frustrating thing.

 

[Lieju]

Games Workshop, I have one simple message for you.

Figure out who your audience is.

Because at the moment you are selling stuff that appeals very strongly to teenagers and young adults, but at prices that require a very stable income. Restricting your actual audience to teenagers with generous parents, and adults willing to pour money into the hobby.

Hah,yes.

This wasn't even that recently, but as a teenager I got really interested in Warhammer and wanted to get into it.
One look at the prices and I gave up.

These days I might have money for it...

But I'm just spending it all on LEGOs because at least I know for sure all the stuff I get works with everything I have and will continue to do so.
(Apart from the accursed Friends-minifigs, grr.)

 

[Seracen]

Never really got into this genre due to cost, but many of my friends have. It's amusing to hear shopkeepers justify to them that the product is worth the money. Seriously, throwing down that much cash for so little product, only to have to buy it all over again next year...

Then again, the same could be said of Magic, but my friends and I still play with our 10 year old cards, and it CAN be cheaper if you are smart about it.

 

[Megalodon]

It's a shame really...I love the Warhammer 40k/Warhammer Universe Gamesworkshop created. I wish I had the money to collect the codex and rulebook. I work 40hrs a week and I still can't afford it.

And here we have the rub. 'GW' didn't create either the Fantasy or 40k universes. Rick Priestley did, and his framework was built on by others, like Andy Chambers and Jervis Johnson. However, too few of those people still work for the company, and their replacements, quite frankly, aren't as talented (with the odd exception, like Alan Bligh over at Forge World). This makes me sad, because I love the IP, but the company keeps doing irritating things with it.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

Week 1: Box of Troops, Glue, Basic Paints. £50
Week 2: Build and paint
Week 3: More paints. £21
Week 4: Finished painting? Box of different troops, HQ. £35
Week 5: Painting
Week 6: Painting
Week 7: Done? Something fancy. £30.
Week 8: Painting.
Week 9: Small game.
Week 10: In that game, you didn't have enough of X. Get X. £30.
Week 11: Painting.
Week 12: Small game.
Etc, etc, etc.

You don't need to buy everything in some massive, orgasmic rush. Pace it out. If you follow the "Don't buy until you've painted what you've got" rule, you'll find it's actually quite cheap because it takes ages to paint things well and you can easily put aside £10 per week. If you paint REALLY slowly, you may even find that you save up enough for bigger stuff.

Please do elaborate as to how paying £166 before you even have a playable army is in any way justifiable. To compare with other nerdy money-sinks: you could build a fairly competitive deck for MtG with that were you to buy single cards, you could get started in airsoft for that amount of money and you get exercise by that to boot. I'm fairly sure the starter sets even in 40k are a more financially sound first purchase than what you've just suggested.

Never really got into this genre due to cost, but many of my friends have. It's amusing to hear shopkeepers justify to them that the product is worth the money. Seriously, throwing down that much cash for so little product, only to have to buy it all over again next year...

Then again, the same could be said of Magic, but my friends and I still play with our 10 year old cards, and it CAN be cheaper if you are smart about it.

Thing is you can trade for pretty much any cards you need and are actively encouraged to do so. My current deck, which is pretty close to a few tournament playable decks, cost me next to nothing save £10 for a Stormbreath Dragon. MtG can actually be a reasonably cheapish hobby compared to others such as 40k as long as you go about it with the right mindset. That being said, it can still be horrifically expensive if you want to build a deck from scratch and don't have enough good trades.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

It's a shame really...I love the Warhammer 40k/Warhammer Universe Gamesworkshop created. I wish I had the money to collect the codex and rulebook. I work 40hrs a week and I still can't afford it.

If you want to play marines or chaos, just buy dark vengeance $110, that gets you the rules, templates, dice etc plus 2 starter armies.

The Codices are a bit of a sting though, $50/58. Still, if you end up playing chaos you can use the marines as extra troops, just paint em up like they started listening to heavy metal. It's a bit harder to do the other way round though.

Secondly, buy on ebay. All GW models are useable in store. I have an ork army from rogue trader that's over 20 years old, it still turns up and kicks ass. Do I need to buy the new expensive Meganobs etc? No, I just put a cardboard circle on the base to make it up to the right size and use my ork nob in power armour that was made in 1988 and cost me about £1 in 1990 and you could get for a couple of dollars on ebay.

No, GW aren't cheap, yes they sometimes write unbalanced expensive rules that don't get fixed for ages, yes they will retire their old models and make sure their replacements are the same price for half the number of minis, yes they will release a new codex with a 50% price increase that does little more that tweak the rules but you can play their game without playing their game, so to speak, ebay uk shows 110,000 results for warhammer, 65,000 in the US, you'll probably manage to find what you want eventually.

Really, for me the biggest problem is painting the little bastards. Simple remedy though, if you don't give that much of a fuck:

£2.99 for a 500ml can of Hycote matt acrylic car paint. BAM! One Black legion/Ulthwe/Black Templar/Goff etc army, painted in about 20 minutes.

Buy a small pot of white, red, green, metallic silver to put in a few details as you see fit.

Edit: Thirdly, don't play at GW. That way you can turn up and play previous editions or out of date codices or that nice fancy alternate model you bought from that "not GW honest" web store.

 

[bjj hero]

Didi you pack your flame shield?

Taking a lot of flack here. Who have thought liking something legal would get this may backs up?

Im hoping the new CEO will start supporting specialist games again.

I played 40k and WHFB in my teens (mid 30s now) and enjoyed it but there is no way I could find 4 hours to sit down with an army at the same time my friend can any more. Its life now with a family, 1 and a half jobs and a house to run. How long is an average battle now?

What I have kept up with is the specialist games, necromunda, advanced hero quest and my big one bloodbowl. Grandma Wendy has chosen to drop these like a bad habit. Teams are discontinued, theyre offered no shop space and no one pushes them.

Bloodbowl still has an avid community with coaches travelling the world to play in tournaments. Its sad that the bloodbowl is no longer even at warhammerworld. Its moved to Notts uni. Its a pity as now coaches are buying their teams etc. From other companies as its the only option. I love the team building aspect in these smaller games getting really attatched to my team/gang/hero. I really think GW are missing a trick with this. The space hulk reissue was well received.

 

[Megalodon]

Its sad that the bloodbowl is no longer even at warhammerworld. Its moved to Notts uni.

To play Devil's advocate for a moment, is this a recent thing? Because they're not having any events at warhammer world at the moment due to renovation work, which is going to last until 'early' next year minimum, so normality probably won't return until June or so at the earliest.

However, the killing of the Specialist Games (while keeping the Hobbit stuff knocking around) was undeniably poor form.

 

[Armadox]

Everything Leon says is garbage, most notably the idea that spending 136 pounds and two months before you get your first game in is an acceptable investment, when all that gets you is the bare minimum legal army (and legal does not mean the rules actually function at that level) and no rules to actually play a game.

Well, don't get into gaming then, a good PC can cost maybe £400, and then you have to buy the games...
Well, don't get into biking then, a good bike can cost £500, and then you have to pay to take it to good locations...
Well, don't travel then, going to a place, getting food, getting a hotel, etc.

If spending time and money to put together your hobby is too much for you, maybe it isn't a hobby for you? If painting miniatures isn't your thing, then go find a board game where they provide for you models, board, rules and so on for 4 people for maybe £25.

Yes, there are alternatives, but clearly, anything which requires investment is wrong...

I.. rather take umbrage with your attitude in this. The examples you put forth actually hurt your argument greatly. Yes, a good PC will cost you $400, but here is where the difference between it as WH goes. I can buy a rig, and do other things with it. I can write my own stories or games, hell most come with at least solitaire and minesweeper. And I could with a few dollars buy all sorts of games from places like Humble Bundle. I could go find games on Armor games or Newgrounds for nothing but the time to check them out. (And do not you DARE tally me with "you need to buy internet" har har. You need to purchase fuel to get you to the shop or what not to play your game. Same difference.)

I can take my bike across town to see the ocean. I can use my bike to get me to work. I can bike to the park for nothing.

I can travel light and go sight seeing with a few hundred dollars if I plan right. I can go it alone, and have fun with the people on the bus. I can take with me supplies to sell, and the trip can pay it's way.

You set your hobby up along side of those things as equal. What else can you do with your WH pieces without someone to play against? The diversity of the hobbies you mention greatly outrange yours in value of use alone, and I don't feel they should be put along side yours.

Warhammer can do one thing. Play Warhammer. And with few ways to mitigate the original access cost it's by far harder on the customer to get into. This should change, and they should do so to access a wider audience simply on the merits of it being a game where you have to up-date your pieces regularly. For it's cost, Munchkin is a value. For it's limitations, MTG is a value. For being a wargame, others hold the same basic premises at cheaper costs. (Lore means shit to the field, son. Fluff don't kill your enemies.)

I'd like you to hold your hobby against it's kind, for it's only there you have a leg to stand on.

 

[Ark of the Covetor]

i've heard that the prices for gw models are actually pretty consistent with the rise of inflation, but our incomes fail to rise along with inflation thus leading to an even greater sense of price hikes.

If by "pretty much in line with" you mean "at least double inflation in most years" then yeah, sure. And that's not taking into consideration their newer practices of cutting the number of models in a box by 50% but reducing the price of the box by less than 50%, so where you were(purely illustrative example) buying 10 figures for £25, you're now buying 5 for £20; or of releasing "dual-kits" which can be built as either unit A or unit B, but not both since they share key parts, and jacking up the price "because you get more bits" - now that wouldn't be too bad, except the second unit in most of these "dual-kits" are totally unnecessary inventions that amount to the original unit with slightly different equipment, the only purpose of which is to allow them to charge you nearly double the price for a set of extra heads and arms.

The White Knights love to ***** about "whiners" and "haters", but the truth is that most of the people who get agitated by GW's shitty business practices(not just price; they're copyright bullies, they "region lock" distribution of their models to stores so they can jack up the prices in some markets, they've been introducing more and more ridiculously restrictive trade terms for independent retailers over the past few years and making more and more of their range available only through their own stores and webstore, and their management team isn't just incompetent but proud of it - the previous CEO[and still effectively the man running the company since the new guy is one of his band of sycophants] actually seriously tried to claim that the company does no market research whatsoever because that is "otiose(pointless) in a niche market", and during a legal case, under oath mind, one of their high-ups actually stated that the favourite thing their customers like about GW is buying what they sell, not in the sense of collecting or that GW put out good product, but in the sense that their customers are vacant addicts who's enjoyment of their hobby comes from giving GW money), these people are not "haters" at all, they grew up playing GW games and collecting GW models, many still do both to some degree, and they're angry at the current management for running the company into the ground.

Which is not debatable regardless of how hard some people try; stagnant revenue despite aggressive cost-cutting AND continual year-on-year price increases means one of two things; the customers you had are buying less and less, or you're losing customers faster than you're gaining new ones. More and more frequently the dividends paid out to shareholders have exceeded earnings. GW have been cutting costs as hard and fast as they can for a long time now; stores moving to cheaper, smaller premises and going to one-man operations with demo-only gaming tables, ending production and support for all the game systems they made except for the main two(and LotR/Hobbit, but only because they're contractually obligated to keep doing those until after the third Hobbit movie), introducing more and more "limited edition" and low print/production run products to reduce required warehousing space, firing all the regional management teams in other parts of the world and ending a lot of foreign language translations, it goes on and on, and people have been saying for years now that it's simply not sustainable. Well now it's time to pay the piper; they've cut as much as they can cut without accelerating their decline, they're doubling-down on their current strategies, and between Kickstarter and rivals moving in to exploit the gaps GW's shoddy policies have created in the market(Warmahordes owe a lot of their current success to GW's total inability to develop an effective strategy for the USA,; and the various 6-15mm sci-fi games, space-based ship fleet combat games, and small-scale sci-fi and fantasy skirmish games have only become so numerous and successful because GW abandoned those segments of the market when they dumped their various Specialist Games a few years back) they're facing a serious problem.

Not that Kirby, the architect of their current strategies, gives a toss; he's a few years from retirement, and he's busily extracting all the value he can from the company(aforementioned dividends paid that are frequently larger than earnings - he's the biggest individual ie non-fund shareholder, plus straightforward dishonesty; that shitty, unresponsive webstore that cost the company over £4million? Yeah the contract for that went to a wee company run by...Mrs Kirby), so providing he can keep things ticking over until he walks away, whether the company survives beyond that point is of zero concern to him.