Trump ordered to pay $350 million for fraudulent business practices in New York

Piscian

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Interestingly, if it was about destabilising the world or killing innocent people, Genocide Joe gives credence to the claim.

Chipping away democracy is obviously a lie. It's almost too blatantly untrue to count as a serious lie.
quote unquote "democracy" ie capitalism is the safest thing on the planet right now. Now killing the "indigenous people of... wherever" and fomenting rebellion against any buddying democracy in countries controlled by american corporations. Yeah democrats do that. The problem is, that is the only thing that garners non-partisan support in congress. Partial pass given to bernie and "The squad". *very partial.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Considering you found the measures to prevent Covid more horrible than Covid itself, and the overturning of Roe v. Wade completely logical, there's absolutely no point to answering this question.
I would have preferred covid measures that made sense like Sweden (that did better than the US by a lot). And kids not going to school for 18 months was very horrible and democrats did that. Tons of legal experts say Roe was legally a poorly reasoned mess regardless.

...

Really?
You guys act like the country feel apart or something.

"Why would I care about the optics on both domestic and international politics of having an openly corrupt leader of the US"

Yes yes, all politicians are corrupt, but if you can't see the distinction between rumour and 'we all know' vs actually convicted...you're a dumb shit.
I don't care about optics because that's like meaningless. I care about how things actually are vs how they are perceived.

Corruption
Disrupting the transatlantic alliance
Stoking civil devisions beyond the breaking point
A coup
Blackmailing allied countries to intervene in the election for him
Wreaking havoc during the covid era(no making mistakes handling covid isn't worse than ignoring it or giving credence to the dumbests bleach related ideas our there)
Following the Orban playbook
A coup
And coup.

There's a reason Trump gets placed at the absolute bottom of any historical ranking.
Guess which administration pushed something through the FDA that caused the 2 top FDA directors to quit?

But none of that hurt Phoenixmgs, so why should anyone care?!
Democrats have hurt more over the same time.

You utter. Fucking. Liar.
Don't. Fucking. Lie.
Democrats have been going pretty hard on censorship. They also don't want 3rd-party candidates more because more on the left vote that way so it hurts them more than republicans.
 

Elijin

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I don't care about optics because that's like meaningless. I care about how things actually are vs how they are perceived.
Alright, since you have attached to the word optics as a deflection, let's outright state 'how things are'. This scenario is an erratic president who says wild things which undermine international trust in the US, who is guilty of fraud.

That is 'how things are' if he is elected. If you can't see the importance and impact of that, you're truly a dumb shit.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Alright, since you have attached to the word optics as a deflection, let's outright state 'how things are'. This scenario is an erratic president who says wild things which undermine international trust in the US, who is guilty of fraud.

That is 'how things are' if he is elected. If you can't see the importance and impact of that, you're truly a dumb shit.
HE WAS ALREADY ELECTED...
 

Dirty Hipsters

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And this resulted in what actual bad results?
One could very easily draw a straight line from a loss of trust in the US by the international community to Putin's attack on Ukraine. Especially given the scandal of Trump's withholding of military aid to Ukraine in 2019, Trump's endorsements of Putin, and the Republicans withholding Ukraine aid RIGHT NOW due to Trump's demands.
 
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Thaluikhain

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I feel a little foolish typing this, but I bet that if I tried to overthrow the US government in an insurrection, Trump supporters would be cross with me.
 
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tstorm823

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One could very easily draw a straight line from a loss of trust in the US by the international community to Putin's attack on Ukraine. Especially given the scandal of Trump's withholding of military aid to Ukraine in 2019, Trump's endorsements of Putin, and the Republicans withholding Ukraine aid RIGHT NOW due to Trump's demands.
Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. The White House gave no lethal aid until Trump took office. Your straight line involves time travel and alternative universes.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not blaming Democrats for the invasion, I'm not imagining a world where Crimea isn't annexed because Mitt Romney won an election, nor do I imagine Hillary Clinton would have withheld aid to Ukraine against the advisement of military and intelligence leaders. I'm just not participating in the mental gymnastics required to blame Trump for Vladimir Putin.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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One could very easily draw a straight line from a loss of trust in the US by the international community to Putin's attack on Ukraine. Especially given the scandal of Trump's withholding of military aid to Ukraine in 2019, Trump's endorsements of Putin, and the Republicans withholding Ukraine aid RIGHT NOW due to Trump's demands.
It's not the US's job to police the world. Isn't this the very thing you all constantly b!tch about? But then when you want the US to do something, you're magically for the US policing the world. It's rather left/progressive to be against the US policing the world like you know in System of a Down's Prison Song for example. You guys just bounce back and forth between principles based the wind it seems.

Also what Tstorm said.

It was a shit show then and that was just when the vibes were off. Now he's a certified, convicted fraud. Grade A president material there apparently.
It's an election and you're saying people can't vote for who they want? Very democratic of you. And you can get a lot of people on the fraud they got Trump on, plus it was a civil case.

I feel a little foolish typing this, but I bet that if I tried to overthrow the US government in an insurrection, Trump supporters would be cross with me.
BLM riots was far worse and nobody here even mentions it as something horrible.
 

Elijin

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It's an election and you're saying people can't vote for who they want? Very democratic of you. And you can get a lot of people on the fraud they got Trump on, plus it was a civil case.
Why yes, I do think a candidate for a nations leader should be held at a high standard to qualify. Nice try with the bullshit hand wringing though.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Why yes, I do think a candidate for a nations leader should be held at a high standard to qualify. Nice try with the bullshit hand wringing though.
If the candidate is legally allowed to run, then what's the problem?

And they should. That doesn't mean that Trump should get a free pass just because there's other asshole billionaires who do the same thing.
It's obviously politically targeted. The AG literally ran on a platform for going after Trump, and then laws were used in a manner they were never used in before. You just find this ok because it's a candidate you don't like, the thing is it can be done to a candidate you do like. Hence why you should be against such things. What if they did such things against some 3rd party candidate just to keep the 2 party system going?
 

Dirty Hipsters

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It's obviously politically targeted. The AG literally ran on a platform for going after Trump, and then laws were used in a manner they were never used in before. You just find this ok because it's a candidate you don't like, the thing is it can be done to a candidate you do like. Hence why you should be against such things. What if they did such things against some 3rd party candidate just to keep the 2 party system going?
I don't care if it's politically targeted if a crime was committed. Nor would I care if it was any other candidate or politician, Republican, Democrat, or otherwise.

I find it offensive when politicians flaunt a disregard for the law and are able to shield themselves due to their political dealings when any normal person would be in prison for the same exact crime. If Trump is doing the same thing that every other politician does then I'm fine with every other politician being in prison along with him.
 

Hades

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It's obviously politically targeted. The AG literally ran on a platform for going after Trump, and then laws were used in a manner they were never used in before. You just find this ok because it's a candidate you don't like, the thing is it can be done to a candidate you do like. Hence why you should be against such things. What if they did such things against some 3rd party candidate just to keep the 2 party system going?
The idea that Trump gets in trouble for stuff other rich guys get away with is something I'd have more sympathy for if Trump didn't break his side of the contract first. Trump is lucky enough to live in a country where rich aristocrats like him get handled with kid gloves and then Trump attacks the very system that kept shielding him. When Trump tries to advance himself at the direct expense of the system then its not bound to grant him such a courtesy anymore, and certainly not when Trump tries overthrowing that system through a coup.

I'm not exactly shedding any tears because Trump bit the hand that fed him. He's still coming off absurdly easy for a literal traitor.

As for the judiciary targeting a 3rd party candidate. Well they first have to establish if such a candidate even did anything wrong. Remember not every politician is as cartoonishly corrupt as Donald is. And if some openly corrupt businessman were to run...what exactly would be the problem with his crimes bringing him in trouble? Is that not exactly how things should work?