Owyn_Merrilin said:
The ironic thing about this statement is that Alien actually took the grimy, used future of Star Wars and ran with it; if you want bright and shiny, you might find it in Star Trek, but not Star Wars.
What are you referring to now? Looks/design or theme?
I might agree on some of the looks/design on spaceships and such, but when it comes to theme I can't agree that Star Wars is just as dark as Alien or that it was Ridley Scott's intention. This is most easily illustrated to how the respective franchises deals with aliens. In Star Wars they are for the most part allies and friends of humans, they have cultures, language, ways of life etc. In Alien, the aliens are portrayed as... Well ALIEN. I.e incomperhensible, frightening, Lovecraftian (just the way I like my aliens. I hate aliens who are way too antropomorphic and "unalien" in sci-fi).
And that's what I mean when I say that Alien is dark/grimy while Star Wars is "bright and shiny". In Star Wars, the alien nature of the universe is something that can be talked to and reasoned with to some extent. The Xenomorphs from Alien however can't be bargained or reasoned with. They seem animalistic, but they display way too much intelligence to be simple animals so it's clear that they have motives and agenda but ones that are way too alien to understand and that doesn't include human beings as anything else than a source of meat to implant offspring into.
Owyn_Merrilin said:
That said, there's a difference between dark, and dark and depressing -- or what many people call "grimdark." The new Battlestar Galactica was dark and depressing, Blade Runner is just dark. Alien and Terminator both have their dark moments, but they aren't in the same league of darkness as Blade Runner, let alone Battlestar Galactica. Besides, both The Terminator and Alien were horror films, and the sequels were much lighter action films, with a sci-fi streak running through the entirety of both series.
I don't mind depressing as long as it is done properly. The trouble with Battlestar Galactica was that it was way too boring to watch. (at least to me)
Also, I disagree when you say that The Terminator isn't in the same league as Blade Runner when it comes to darkness. Of course im not refering to the sequels (because, aside from perhaps the Sarah Connor Chronicles, the sequels are way too comedic and action-oriented to be as good as the original). The original is, like you said, a horror story, and also very film noir in many ways (James Cameron came up with the term "tech noir" which is pretty approriate).
So the difference between Blade Runner and The Terminator isn't really in levels of grimdarkness but more about the level of philosophical thoughts and the use of symbolism. The Terminator is pretty much "in your face" with a simple but at the same time horrifying concept, as well as a sense of impending doom. Blade Runner is more into philosophy and symbolism, but they are both equally dark and serious.
Owyn_Merrilin said:
Basically, the lack of camp in modern sci-fi and fantasy is only part of what I'm talking about; that's really difficult to do right, otherwise the Syfy channel movies would be some of my favorites. What I'm really after is the occasional series that doesn't make me walk away feeling depressed; is it really too much to ask for the occasional uplifting moment? Zeta Gundam, and the UC continuity in general, are really good at doing this. The subject matter is as dark as it can get, but every now and then, the show takes a moment to show us what the characters are fighting for, how wonderful it is, and how not everything is death and destruction. Without these moments of light, a dark series quickly becomes an exercise in showing depressed people doing depressing things, and committing various unforgivable atrocities in the process. Is that really what we want?
Yes!
At least that's what I want. As you might imagine, im a fan of hard sci-fi first and foremost and not too much space opera or lighthearted "space discovery" stuff.
Of course I am a huge Warhammer 40.000 buff, which is somewhat of a space opera, but it's overflowed with grimdark to satisfy my tastes. I especially enjoy the fact that humans in WH40K aren't portrayed as the "ultimate good guys" in the setting, but are actually some of the most militaristic, oppressive dicks in the galaxy, making some of the alien species seem a lot more appealing (like the Tau). But for some reason, you root for these militaristic assholes anyway because you can sympathize with them in a strange way, since pretty much every horror imaginable in the galaxy is out to get them.
