But they are responsible for the poor choices of the men who pay them.
Twitch has a new Hot Girls in Hot Tubs Meta now
- Thread starter CriticalGaming
- Start date
I feel like people keep on reading only part of my posts.
See again what I said about targeting kids being at best skeevy and at worst illegal.
Let me put this in the simplest way I can.
If these women went to a public beach or pool and wore the same bikinis, they would get creepy reactions from horny men. It's something they will have to be aware of and think about every day, at least until they aren't considered attractive any more.
Your issue here seems to be that they've found a way to monetize something which you aren't supposed to admit has value. But it clearly does have value, because people are paying for it.
If you live in a culture which commodifies female bodies, then eventually the women who own those bodies will realise that they have control over a commodity which they can use for personal gain. Beyond the fact that it does actually take a degree of work to do that job successfully, capitalism really doesn't care about the value of labour. The world is full of people who actually get paid for doing nothing, and they're typically earning far more than some e-girl on twitch could ever hope to see.
You can complain about "poor choices" all you want, but it's clearly not a poor choice relative to the other choices available. That's why people are doing it. If wearing a bikini on twitch is more rewarding than anything else available to people, maybe ask yourself why that is.
I mean, there's the separate issue of what is appropriate on Twitch as a platform or what rules should be applied to Twitch streamers, but if Twitch doesn't see a problem, if their brand image isn't being harmed and if they're still able to attract advertisers and investment, then there's no obvious motivation for them to act.
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I replied to the part I cared about. It's a happy coincidence that someone's stream that's for "everyone" attracts kids. Those 3 dollars were a candid reference to Amazon Prime that includes one "free" Twitch subscription each month. When it comes to livestreaming and what sort of zeitgeist it reflects I'm mostly interested in the audience/viewer relationship. It's like how pre-2010 YouTube celebrities were really kid friendly (Nigahiga, Smosh, Fred) on purpose, but video game content PewDiePie and Markiplier began making were videos for people like themselves. I really hate the idea of "responsibility for your audience" that came later, because it seems to wrap up almost infinitely (tolerating an edgy joke by a viewer -> "oh you must really think that").I feel like people keep on reading only part of my posts.
See again what I said about targeting kids being at best skeevy and at worst illegal.
Anyway, I blame the parents. After all, streaming gameplay for Minecraft or Fortnite automatically targets kids for that reason alone, and those people don't shy away from growing their video gaming careers bigger.
Sort of.
Bear in mind that the general habit of many companies is to occupy as much commercial ground as possible. So Amazon went from online books to online anything and now is opening old-fashioned physical shops as well.
Given what Twitch is, it may as well expand into pornography: test the waters with some light softcore that wouldn't even get an 18 rating. There's demand and a commercial niche, it may as well occupy it.
My problem isnt that they are in bikini's nor is it the fact that they are making money for doing it. Streamers get donations, that isnt the problem.
The problem is when they ONLY thing these girls are doing is fucking sitting there and expecting money for fucking nothing, without even the decency to try and be entertaining. Because it harms the platform as a whole and makes it harder for the girls who dont want to do that shit.
When every other stream is required to bring something to the table, whether that is a personality that people enjoy, a special skill, or the ability to teach the audience something. It is understood that the content creator must be providing some sort of content.
And i dont think just sitting there barely talking to chat or ignoring them completely while you just chill with your friends, is content. It is expected money because you exist and that is the issue i take with it.
As i said before, if these girls were streaming a water polo game, or providing swim lessons, diving instructions, sun bathing tutorials, if they were fucking offering ANYTHING other than just their bodies, then im cool with it.
And that being said if a girl wants to make money just off her body there are other sites for that. Cam sites, onlyfans, pornhub, whatever. The reason being is that...again, there is no age limitation on Twitch, you can have kids fostering perv behavior because they are in some bikini girls stream while chat jerks itself off and showers bits.
You keep saying they expect money for nothing. Again, they don't expect money, they get it. I still don't understand live streaming games. I don't get "personalities". But people are willing to pay to watch that stuff. Fine. People are willing to pay to watch women sit in a hot tub? The women in the hot tubs aren't the ones creating that market.
Whatever they're doing people are willing to pay money for them to do it. Regardless of if we think it's dumb or not.
They're not expecting or demanding anything. They're streaming themselves in a hot tub and people decided to pay for that.
Like i said, people still buy Diamonds. NFT's are a thing, billionaires will earn more a year than you will in a lifetime just off the interest of the insane wealth they Already own. But this is a bridge too far for you?
Is it exploitative? Maybe it can be but for anyone who doesn't want to pay but wants a pg13 amount of skin there's plenty of places on the Internet.
Edit: And YouTube has no real age limitation either. Neither does twitter. Man twitter has actual pornographies on there, I'd stay away if I were you.
It's women in bikinis dude. Women in bikinis. Easily accessed goddamned anywhere. Google image search. So now we've got
"Young people can access it." So what? That's the whole Internet.
"They're making money for nothing" Nope, they're selling something that people are buying, doesn't even enter into the top 50 things that worry me about capitalism.
"It's exploiting young people by getting them to spend money." Any instance of that is bad and needs to be stopped. But that doesn't mean the whole deal is a problem.
Its not lost on me that the kind of people who jump to defend the male gaze in mass media are also always the people who jump to attacking women when they learn to use it for their own benefit.
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Oh come on there have been several girls put on blast for demanded money from their viewers. All of which only sat there doing fuck all and expected people to shower them with dollar dollar bills yo.
Sure, but not kids. All Twitch needs is some decent age verification and we're all good.
Both sites should get some, because there is outright gay sex on Youtube. so yeah it's a wide problem.
Jst because it is widely available doesn't make what is on Twitch ok. You can just go to pornhub and see all the real porn you want for free. That still doesn't mean a widely used site like Twitch should just have it wide and open.
The difference between pornsites and even the adult content on youtube and twitter, is that you typically cannot stumble across it without a deliberate search. However on Twitch these hottub girls will pop up just if you happen to click the just chatting section. Or if you want to watch Just Dance or whatever. If the boobs are getting the views, then the boobs are going to the top of those lists.
Hell If Twitch just pop some sort of filter in place which would hide that content unless you deliberately wanted it, I think would be a fair start.
I can't imagine half the anger and disdain from some people over pointlessly titillating video games that take advantage of the same desires
Anyways, let them do it I suppose, not my sort of thing nor anything I think is great, can't imagine those who watch it are not just weird and skeevy as hell, but it is not some new territory as far as what kinda weird shit sells
Anyways, let them do it I suppose, not my sort of thing nor anything I think is great, can't imagine those who watch it are not just weird and skeevy as hell, but it is not some new territory as far as what kinda weird shit sells
Missing the point. You're claim was that they expect money my response was no they get it. They ask for money for something they know people will pay money for and then people pay money. Simple as that.
it's not even porn. It's girls in a hottub. That shit wouldn't even be age gates on YouTube.
Could have just said sex. I'm sure there's hetero sex on there too. Weird that you had to specify gay.
It's women in bikinis. Are you really that much of a prude that you'd call that porn? Have you seen a music video?
it's women in bikinis! I was a wrestling fan in the 90's and early 2000's. There was way worse stuff there.
So you would also have an issue with twitch streaming games that have gratuitous sexualising female characters too then I'm assuming? Anyone who mains Ivy in soul calibur needs an age verification to view their content?
Are you blatantly missing or ignoring my points? Wrestling is entertainment, the point isn't the bikini's, it's the wrestling. The bikini's are just frosting on the cake of the entertainment.
These streamers are not doing anything for entertainment, they offer NOTHING except to sit there and watch people give them money.
Do you not see the difference? Their is context to the nudity there, and in any game really. Therefore it is more than JUST sexualization.
Fuck am I even speaking English here? What the hell is so hard to understand. One thing does not equal another here. Your examples are DIFFERENT things! Hell your examples are the exact suggestions I made that Twitch should enforce.
Why shouldn't Twitch run a soft porn service if it wants to?
Guy speaking here, and legit question.
With most of the women doing this ( and I am hoping they are over 18 when they are doing this) how much of this is empowering to the ladies in question, how much of this is exploitative on their part, and how much is this them being exploited.
Neither Lizzy Hale nor Ellie Goldin need to dress provocativly on their album pamphlets, posters, videos, or on stage, but they do. A good chunk of the female cosplayers I see on Facebook. Yeah, yeah, on a scale of 1-10 they are out of my league, but sooner or later you get pics that are essentially Victoria's Secret Photo SHoots, or somehow defying the laws of physics in making an outfit work, namely 7 Deadly SIn's Merlin, or some of the girl dragons humanoid form from WOW.
This doesn't mean they don't have talent. Tasha, a Korean model and cosplayer and gamer, has one hell of a Queen of Blades and puts emotion into her I I don't even think the games do, and there is also has a Olivia Armstrong that just nails the charecter. Even with the before mentioned dragon, she manages to get the right attitude to match the character.
But at which point is my fat butt asking them to not be overly sexualized as I think its low fruit hanging and at which point am I slut shaming an artist that doing this to feel empowered as well as get the attention of the lonly Otaku?
With most of the women doing this ( and I am hoping they are over 18 when they are doing this) how much of this is empowering to the ladies in question, how much of this is exploitative on their part, and how much is this them being exploited.
Neither Lizzy Hale nor Ellie Goldin need to dress provocativly on their album pamphlets, posters, videos, or on stage, but they do. A good chunk of the female cosplayers I see on Facebook. Yeah, yeah, on a scale of 1-10 they are out of my league, but sooner or later you get pics that are essentially Victoria's Secret Photo SHoots, or somehow defying the laws of physics in making an outfit work, namely 7 Deadly SIn's Merlin, or some of the girl dragons humanoid form from WOW.
This doesn't mean they don't have talent. Tasha, a Korean model and cosplayer and gamer, has one hell of a Queen of Blades and puts emotion into her I I don't even think the games do, and there is also has a Olivia Armstrong that just nails the charecter. Even with the before mentioned dragon, she manages to get the right attitude to match the character.
But at which point is my fat butt asking them to not be overly sexualized as I think its low fruit hanging and at which point am I slut shaming an artist that doing this to feel empowered as well as get the attention of the lonly Otaku?
So? They aren't siphoning off anybody else's audience, so who cares?
Context being "almost nude girl hot" in most cases
I'm genuinely confused at comparing a crafted video game character being sexualized eye candy to a real actual human being with agency and choice and concluding that the *later* is inappropriate sexualization.
Would this be an issue if these gals were streaming Dead or Alive: Extreme Beach Volleyball 3 characters lounging around on a beach?
No I wouldn't because she is offering entertainment on top of titillation. Which I don't have any issue with.
God forbid these people have to showcase the smallest, tiniest bit of effort and pretense.