Twitch just keeps getting worse and worse.

BrawlMan

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And it really affects mainly those that are black or of a different race, or trans. I didn't even know about these hate raids and I already don't like them. The ones on top are already sitting on their asses and doing nothing. Not helping those that are getting abused is the same as helping those that are the ones doing the harassing and abusing. They are really enabling this crap.

 
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McElroy

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Follower mode for the chat is pretty much a default feature nowadays. How many people would you hire to go through infinite amount of bad words and attitudes on streamers' chats in order to give them sitewide bans or something? You do get banned easily if you harass multiple people enough that they manually report you. Bot accounts are practically infinite though.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Each streamer has the ability to auto ban words from their chat. So obviously when you set up your stream you should input the words that would trigger you or offend you. That way even if you get "hate raided", the chat can't really use slangs against you. Sure they can type out eloquent comments, but you just ban those people and ignore it.

It's like feeding the trolls, you aren't supposed to do it.

Twitch can't police millions of people chatting any more than they already do, and the tools that they provide to the streamer. Twitch is a platform in which you are hosting your own show. It is not their responsibility to police that show for you. Use the tools that are in place and learn to solve the problem. Hell I even think you can check a box that prevents you from being raided entirely, which completely turns of the potential for these things.

Then you have the bots, which okay, probably a pain in the ass to deal with. Ban them, and wait it out a bit. Or use another tool that the streamer has Sub only mode, Emote only mode, follower only mode. I don't understand, why is this a problem when there are shitloads of easy, quick solutions right at the streamer's fingertips at a moment's notice?

I don't know, I feel like the streamers could handle this themselves tbh.
 

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Each streamer has the ability to auto ban words from their chat. So obviously when you set up your stream you should input the words that would trigger you or offend you. That way even if you get "hate raided", the chat can't really use slangs against you. Sure they can type out eloquent comments, but you just ban those people and ignore it.

It's like feeding the trolls, you aren't supposed to do it.

Twitch can't police millions of people chatting any more than they already do, and the tools that they provide to the streamer. Twitch is a platform in which you are hosting your own show. It is not their responsibility to police that show for you. Use the tools that are in place and learn to solve the problem. Hell I even think you can check a box that prevents you from being raided entirely, which completely turns of the potential for these things.

Then you have the bots, which okay, probably a pain in the ass to deal with. Ban them, and wait it out a bit. Or use another tool that the streamer has Sub only mode, Emote only mode, follower only mode. I don't understand, why is this a problem when there are shitloads of easy, quick solutions right at the streamer's fingertips at a moment's notice?

I don't know, I feel like the streamers could handle this themselves tbh.
I'm not sure if you watch the whole video, is that the hate raiders have found so many loopholes and ways around those features, that it's ridiculous. That's the point they're trying to make. Even with all those features, they might as well not be doing anything. And the fact that Twitch rather keep their hands clean and not do anything cuz they're counting their money tree.
 

CriticalGaming

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I'm not sure if you watch the whole video, is that the hate raiders have found so many loopholes and ways around those features, that it's ridiculous. That's the point they're trying to make. Even with all those features, they might as well not be doing anything. And the fact that Twitch rather keep their hands clean and not do anything cuz they're counting their money tree.
I didn't hear any mention on locking down chat's with sub only modes and such. But i might have missed it as I'm trying to watch and work at the same time.

Also just a side note. I'm proud of Sterling's weight lose. Holy crap they've lost a ton of weight. GG!
 
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BrawlMan

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I didn't hear any mention on locking down chat's with sub only modes and such. But i might have missed it as I'm trying to watch and work at the same time.

Also just a side note. I'm proud of Sterling's weight lose. Holy crap they've lost a ton of weight. GG!
Please see the video whenever you can. You don't have to rush it. The victims of what's happening are actually speaking in the video and it's not just Jim reading them off.

Thank you for the heartwarming side note.
 

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Moderation costs money and streaming platforms don’t have that. They’re a purely investment based business built on exciting people with theoretical returns. See any social media site or virtually anything else Silicon Valley has spat out in the last two decades for further examples. All that’s gonna happen is they will make it against the rules, ban a few high profile examples, and let it remain at a dull moan of suffering as these guys do with everything.
 

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I didn't hear any mention on locking down chat's with sub only modes and such. But i might have missed it as I'm trying to watch and work at the same time.

Also just a side note. I'm proud of Sterling's weight lose. Holy crap they've lost a ton of weight. GG!
Coming out has probably eased a lot of their depression and surrounding issues. It is a lot easier to adopt healthier habits when you are in a good place mentally and emotionally. It's really great to see.
 

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They can police this, and take out the loopholes. Look at how social media executives have dealt with the right-wing, and left-wing when it comes to Youtube, Reddit, and Twitter to a lesser extent.

On Youtube, they have marginalized "borderland content" which is basically anything CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, and big corporations don't like. You get fewer views, and subscriptions, and lefty videos always automatically transition to mainstream media. If I watch TYT I get MSNBC on the next video on autoplay.

On Reddit, they have banned all of the "violent, and brigading subreddits", and are on a censorship spree. If you're a neoliberal or neoconservative your ideas can wreck the global economy, but the Winklevoss twins don't like it if you said the word guillotine.

On Twitter, you can't say curse words at public figures in your tweets. So now you have to start using conspiracy theories against billionaires, and public figures you don't like, and the mainstream media is about to do away with that as well by pressuring social media.

If the dark web had lefty forums and was more accessible & popular I would already be on it.

Oh, and the reason they are doing this is to attract investment, and to have advertisers come to their platforms.
 

CriticalGaming

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Moderation costs money and streaming platforms don’t have that. They’re a purely investment based business built on exciting people with theoretical returns. See any social media site or virtually anything else Silicon Valley has spat out in the last two decades for further examples. All that’s gonna happen is they will make it against the rules, ban a few high profile examples, and let it remain at a dull moan of suffering as these guys do with everything.
A lot of people do like to argue that "Well Twitch is owned by Amazon" But they never realize the cost of running something like Twitch. The sheer server banwith they have to manage, the internal hardware tech people they have to have (like 24/7). It's very expensive.

Could Amazon afford more into Twitch? Yes abosolutely. But it becomes a matter of value. is further investment into Twitch worth the return they make off Twitch. And likely the answer to that is no.

While it is fucked up that people get harassed online, it's not something unique to Twitch let's be honest. And to be online you kind of have to have a sort of level of being able to take punches. Especially if you are trying to be a "public" figure like a streamer or youtuber. Let me be clear about something....when I say you have to have a thick skin and the composure to be able to roll this shit off, does NOT mean I condone harassment in any way, shape, or form.

However I am a realist in this regard. People who want to do this shit, will find ways around any system. Twitch has provided a lot of tools as I mentioned above with tools for the streamer to mitigate this. And harassers still get around it. So again you get into that sunk cost thing in Twitch's POV.

Why would Twitch continue to impliment more and more systems (which require dev time and upkeep to keep the system running) only to have the assholes get around it. Then another system, and another and another, as each one gets circumvented.

Ultimately they need to simply have some protections in which the steamer isn't held accountable for bot raids and whatever. So that even if they do get a ban or suspension, it is quickly cleared up. The rest of it, does fall upon the streamer to handle it as responsible as they possibly can.
 
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Gergar12

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The difference is that Twitch is a live chat system. While those other media platforms are static content. It's an entirely different ball game when it comes to policing live chat's like that.
That's fair, but I feel like if you a public figure you shouldn't be immune to criticism. Obviously, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. So you can't swat someone, but being racist, and transphobic as much as I despise those people are generally fair game, and Twitch is a social media, and social media is basically the new public square. Free speech is free speech. Now if one person is spamming the chat that is grounds for free speech harassment, but generally a person saying a one-off comment said every few minutes a half an hour is fair game.
 

Baffle

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Each streamer has the ability to auto ban words from their chat. So obviously when you set up your stream you should input the words that would trigger you or offend you. That way even if you get "hate raided", the chat can't really use slangs against you. Sure they can type out eloquent comments, but you just ban those people and ignore it.
Someone wrote a Python script that spelled out the word 'jogger' but it substituted similar letters for each character (e.g. zero for o, accented characters) and ran every combination of possible spellings using substitute characters. There's almost 23 million variations of just that word.
 

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A lot of people do like to argue that "Well Twitch is owned by Amazon" But they never realize the cost of running something like Twitch. The sheer server banwith they have to manage, the internal hardware tech people they have to have (like 24/7). It's very expensive.

Could Amazon afford more into Twitch? Yes abosolutely. But it becomes a matter of value. is further investment into Twitch worth the return they make off Twitch. And likely the answer to that is no.

While it is fucked up that people get harassed online, it's not something unique to Twitch let's be honest. And to be online you kind of have to have a sort of level of being able to take punches. Especially if you are trying to be a "public" figure like a streamer or youtuber. Let me be clear about something....when I say you have to have a thick skin and the composure to be able to roll this shit off, does NOT mean I condone harassment in any way, shape, or form.

However I am a realist in this regard. People who want to do this shit, will find ways around any system. Twitch has provided a lot of tools as I mentioned above with tools for the streamer to mitigate this. And harassers still get around it. So again you get into that sunk cost thing in Twitch's POV.

Why would Twitch continue to impliment more and more systems (which require dev time and upkeep to keep the system running) only to have the assholes get around it. Then another system, and another and another, as each one gets circumvented.

Ultimately they need to simply have some protections in which the steamer isn't held accountable for bot raids and whatever. So that even if they do get a ban or suspension, it is quickly cleared up. The rest of it, does fall upon the streamer to handle it as responsible as they possibly can.
If Amazon can't afford it, then why bother buying Twitch in the first place? They can afford it, they just don't want to put money towards it. If Jeff bezos can afford a flight to space, they can afford some fucking bandwidth! You can throw out all the fancy terms and whatever, but it can do it It is all crap. They're just too busy seeing dollar signs to bother caring at all.
 

CriticalGaming

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That's fair, but I feel like if you a public figure you shouldn't be immune to criticism
I'm not saying be immune to it. I'm saying handle it. Look all performers get hecklers, which is really what this is at the end of the day. It's heckling, it's trolling, and it happens because people get a rise out of the person they do it to. It can be hard to deal with or hear sometimes, nobody likes to get insulted or whatever. But if you are going to have a public facing job, you have to be able to withstand this stuff.

Now I agree the bot's causing streamers to get suspensions is bullshit and should be prevented. 100%. But as for the actual raids themselves, I don't see how else they can be dealt with beyond the tools already provided.

Someone wrote a Python script that spelled out the word 'jogger' but it substituted similar letters for each character (e.g. zero for o, accented characters) and ran every combination of possible spellings using substitute characters. There's almost 23 million variations of just that word.
Okay Sub only mode for your chat then. Emote only mode. Slow mode. Literally lock your chat down for a little while, until the botting moves on. It fucks with the real people in your chat for a while, but it's better than letting the bots sperg out on you, and it is temporary.

If Amazon can't afford it, then why bother buying Twitch in the first place?
Because it's a matter of return on investment. Every company has a limit to what they'll invest in anything. Why do you think EA buys studios only to close them? They buy a studio and expect a return on investment, if that studio doesn't return that investment they close it. End of story. They don't care about fault, or whatever. It is simply a numbers game. Make the numbers or close down.

Right now Twitch is making money for Amazon. However that doesn't mean that Amazon is going to keep sinking money into creating systems that botters will just bypass anyway. What's the point of investing money into something that wont work?

And you are right. It's money. That's what companies do! I don't know why this surprises anyone. These hate raids aren't affecting the money because the creators that get them aren't big enough for Twitch to feel the lost. Sorry it's not personal it is just business. Twitch has tools, use them as best you can and deal with it. These raids are not constants as far as any accounts i can find. They pop up once in a while and they suck, use your tools and move on.

Expecting the Trillion-dollar corporation to care about a few $1000 is pointless. And the public outcry about these incidents is far too small for it to take any real notice anywhere. So it isn't even happening to enough people to get it trending anywhere for traction.
 
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BrawlMan

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I'm not saying be immune to it. I'm saying handle it. Look all performers get hecklers, which is really what this is at the end of the day. It's heckling, it's trolling, and it happens because people get a rise out of the person they do it to. It can be hard to deal with or hear sometimes, nobody likes to get insulted or whatever. But if you are going to have a public facing job, you have to be able to withstand this stuff.

Now I agree the bot's causing streamers to get suspensions is bullshit and should be prevented. 100%. But as for the actual raids themselves, I don't see how else they can be dealt with beyond the tools already provided.



Okay Sub only mode for your chat then. Emote only mode. Slow mode. Literally lock your chat down for a little while, until the botting moves on. It fucks with the real people in your chat for a while, but it's better than letting the bots sperg out on you, and it is temporary.



Because it's a matter of return on investment. Every company has a limit to what they'll invest in anything. Why do you think EA buys studios only to close them? They buy a studio and expect a return on investment, if that studio doesn't return that investment they close it. End of story. They don't care about fault, or whatever. It is simply a numbers game. Make the numbers or close down.

Right now Twitch is making money for Amazon. However that doesn't mean that Amazon is going to keep sinking money into creating systems that botters will just bypass anyway. What's the point of investing money into something that wont work?

And you are right. It's money. That's what companies do! I don't know why this surprises anyone. These hate raids aren't affecting the money because the creators that get them aren't big enough for Twitch to feel the lost. Sorry it's not personal it is just business. Twitch has tools, use them as best you can and deal with it. These raids are not constants as far as any accounts i can find. They pop up once in a while and they suck, use your tools and move on.

Expecting the Trillion-dollar corporation to care about a few $1000 is pointless. And the public outcry about these incidents is far too small for it to take any real notice anywhere. So it isn't even happening to enough people to get it trending anywhere for traction.
 

Baffle

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I'm not saying be immune to it. I'm saying handle it. Look all performers get hecklers, which is really what this is at the end of the day. It's heckling, it's trolling, and it happens because people get a rise out of the person they do it to. It can be hard to deal with or hear sometimes, nobody likes to get insulted or whatever. But if you are going to have a public facing job, you have to be able to withstand this stuff.
Realistically, if you heckled like this in a live show you would at a minimum be kicked out, and probably quite roughly; if you openly racially abused someone (which isn't heckling) at a gig in the UK you're likely to be looking at reporting to the nearest police station either because you've been arrested or because you need to report the guy who beat the shit out of you.
 

CriticalGaming

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if you heckled like this in a live show you would at a minimum be kicked out,
Isn't that what banning is? And concerts don't kick people out because there are too many people. But you are right, there is at least some filter to people's mounth's when it's an in-person event because you can't hide behind the keyboard. Again it's a matter of the right hammer for the job. If there are too many bots to ban, Emote only chat, or Sub only.

do the bots get around sub or emote only chats?
 

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Alright, since I'm a Twitch hog I'll watch it though I will preface that the "gender-trash" thing can go to the garbage (where it belongs... being trash, y'know). The people Jim hangs around with hate men and thus they hated Jim until this gender stuff got him on their side.

Bot raids don't have an easy fix. Twitch won't be implementing a phone number verification for every account, but they have come up with a chat nuke button. For small streamers and their chats you could maybe add a "re-follow" thing that's random enough that the bots can't deal with it. Like after a chat nuke you would have chatters do a "re-follow" to regain access. I mean this as an inconvenience that I would still be fine with. Follower mode doesn't help if the bots follow-raid you first (and I guess they can be smart about it too, trickling in slowly).

To blame Twitch for it because they want more money is a bit silly. Bot accounts don't gain them anything in the long run. It really is only a small number of bad actors that grind out the bots, but of course if one in 20k people is willing to do it that's already plenty (statistically it'd be about 80 people at any given time). Whining about emote spam (around the 16 minute mark) that normal viewers type is pathetic.

Now this stuff doesn't concern me, for I wouldn't even notice if the targeted streamers all quit. BUT I watch League of Legends e-sports streams and they were bot raided yesterday. But what then... Emote only is the sole practical answer right now. A chat nuke + re-follow would have to be minimally disruptive.

do the bots get around sub or emote only chats?
They don't, but a stream with 50-150 viewers can already have a lively discussion that you are removing, and thus playing along with the haters.
 

Baffle

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Isn't that what banning is? And concerts don't kick people out because there are too many people. But you are right, there is at least some filter to people's mounth's when it's an in-person event because you can't hide behind the keyboard. Again it's a matter of the right hammer for the job. If there are too many bots to ban, Emote only chat, or Sub only.
Banning is just a very low-cost thing that's easy to circumvent though so it's not the same as being kicked out and losing your ticket price (and concerts absolutely will kick people out, but usually the crowd will deal with it since they're actually there to enjoy the show). Punishment-based approaches are hard to implement online, so Twitch needs to develop tools to help streamers. An obvious one would be implementing something like the Python script I mentioned, so the streamer just needs to enter the simple version of the word they want banned, then Twitch handle banning all variants.

Edit: I said 'hard to prevent' but I meant 'hard to implement'
 
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