Two things I don't like about Western Comics

[Queen Michael]

And when it comes to manga, well, most manga don't have a beginning and an end as much as they have a beginning and a point where the creator ran out of filler ideas and had to write some sort of conclusion. It's very hard to find a manga that's got a story that's as clear and told as straghtforwardly as a movie or a novel.At least superhero comics don't try to pretend that they're stories with a beginning and an end.

I know this must be difficult for some people to wrap their heads around, but the vast majority of manga have endings. The ones that go on forever are the super popular shonen series that the writer doesn't stop writing because they are making ridiculous amounts of money off of them. Personally I choose to enjoy comics and manga, both of which offer closure when you go beyond stuff like X-men/One Piece

As my avatar signature makes clear, I have read over 3,000 manga books. Trust me, I know manga has endings. It's just that when they come, and how they come, is very rarely decided by what would work best storytelling-wise.

Some manga series are finished off way earlier than planned becuase they didn't rate high in the reader polls.

Some are kept going way past their best-before date just because the editor didn't want a cash cow to die.

More than a few high-school romance shojo series are brought to an end when the writer runs out of clichés to use in the plot.

So the main problem isn't that there is no ending, it's that the ending doesn't feel like a natural conclusion to the story, and more like "Well, I guess we'll end the story here." Like @sanquin said, a lot of shojo romance just ends with "and then a few years later they married."

tl;dr: Manga plots are so rarely planned out properly from the beginning.

 

[Queen Michael]

But it's not that manga's shithouse, it's that almost all of the US manga publishers focus on the mainstream stuff. The arty stuff and the original stuff is very rarely translated.

yeah, sorry bit of a low blow.

Manga kind got me into comics and i read alot of it too, mostly Tezuka's obscure work, gekiga like Tatsumi (who's published by fantagraphics now!) and the 80's sci-epics.

You read Tezuka, Tatsumi and 80's sci-fi epics?[footnote]You mean To Terra and stuff like that, right?[/footnote] I'm very impressed!

 

[Megalodon]

To continue the recommendations of Western comics that don't suffer from the two things OP mentioned, 2000AD.

Judge Dredd: Parallel Universes exist, but you don't have alternate continuities, the parallel universe is only there for the origin of some villains. There's only one example of resurrection I'm aware of, otherwise death is death. Characters age, the date moves forward in pretty much real time, and the status quo changes with events.

Rogue Trooper: Clear simple, self-contained plot. Resurrection can happen, but it's a core plot point, not a cheap bait and switch. No parallel universes.

Strontium Dog: Actual analogy to racism (unlike X-men). The end of the original run is marred by bad artwork, but otherwise, permadeath, changing status quo and no paralle universes.

Nemesis the Warlock: Really weird, and I haven't read as much, but again, changing status quo, no parallel worlds BS.

Plus all of these are availble in nice simple antholgies, you can start at vol 1 and work your way through (except Strontium Dog, which is concluded in the Final Solution book).

 

[Marik2]

The main thing I can't stand about western comics is that it seems like 98% of them are about goddamned superheroes all the time.

I mean come on, change the freakin' record already!

And in manga, most of the protagonists are high schoolers


/snarky comment

 

[TekMoney]

So you're completely ignoring everything that isn't Marvel and DC superhero comics?

In all fairness if you talked with anyone who doesn't constantly read comics about comics they would only think of Marvel and DC superhero comics. They are just that massive and dominant. We may know there are more but very few people outside the nerd strata actually know others exist.

The guy is an avid manga reader and distinguishes between that and western comics. He should know. Not only that, but we've already had movies of Watchmen, V For Vendetta, Hellboy and many others. People know it's not all Batman and the X-Men at this point.

 

[FURY_007]

IMO if you go beyond the major books of Marvel and DC, that's when you get to to the better stuff. I quit reading Marvel after Dark Reign pretty much, which was one of my favorite events of all time, definitely solidified Norman Osborne as one of my favorite characters. But some of the lesser known titles I still read, and they are very fantastic. I am completely pissed off how they copied Samuel L Fury into the regular comics universe and shoved Nick Fury out of the way to tie into the movies, when Samuel L Fury is from the Ultimates universe.

To re iterate this, they took Nick Fury, (my favorite comic book characters of all time, which is the reason for this rant), made a version based on Samuel L Jackson for the Ultimates universe, which is fine, but they made him less interesting/badass leader and more just an administrator.... AT ANY RATE then they base the Nick Fury in the Marvel Movieverse off of the Sam Jackson based Ultimate Nick Fury. Which I was ok with, because I can't think of anyone who could play regular Nick Fury better than Sam Jackson could play himself with an eye-patch, Maybe Kurt Russel, idk. A stupid move on their part was introducing the Howling Commandos without Nick Fury in Captain America's movies, because that was regular Nick Fury's unit in WWII, which isn't part of Ultimate Nick Fury's Background. And so fast forward to July of last year, They release a comic called Marvel NOW! which introduces us to Nick Fury, Jr. who is Nick Fury's son, and whose likeness is based off the Movieverse Nick Fury and is now the new golden boy to tie in to the movies.

Sorry about that rant, but stuff like that pisses me off. On a side note, Dark Horse and Image Comics have some fantastic comics. Saga is awesome, and Star Wars Legacy has been pretty sweet.

 

[Rblade]

So you're completely ignoring everything that isn't Marvel and DC superhero comics?

In all fairness if you talked with anyone who doesn't constantly read comics about comics they would only think of Marvel and DC superhero comics. They are just that massive and dominant. We may know there are more but very few people outside the nerd strata actually know others exist.

like a previous poster already said. In that case you shouldn't say "western" but "american" because loads of people know Tin Tin and Astrix and Obelix. Which are a complete different cup a tea

 

[Daniel Janhagen]

I can't stand going into a story anywhere but from the start. Hence Western comics are a bit of a nightmare to me. The prevalent font style gets on my nerves too. You know the bold on every other fucking word? I hate that. Small example I came up with.

"Hey Iron Man do want a coffee? It's been ages since my last drink"

Argh, it breaks the pacing instantly, like every bold word acts as a new sentence for me, similar to When People Do This Shit It Is Annoying. I suppose the bold is for speed reading? I do have a quick reading speed but the bold serves to piledrive it into the ground for me.

I used to think the bolding was for emphasis, or a guide to where to put the stress, but that only makes sense in certain comics, and I don't think I've ever seen it work like that in superhero comics.

Honestly it baffles me, if it is for emphasis it goes on so many times per page it feels like every character cannot keep an even voice volume for more than a sentence.

Maybe it's an elaborate prank!
All that story we made you care about? All the "superheroes" were actually terrible actors, and all the story you saw was a soap. Couldn't you tell from all the "bad acting speech bubbles"?

edit: Usually I can just ignore it, but like you, I have noticed and thought about it.

 

[Fleaman]

Well, lots of manga are going to have pacing problems with the very beginning and the very ending because they're written for weekly/monthly magazines. The first chapter is the pilot hunting for syndication, and the last chapters are rushed because cancellation came on short notice. Syndicated comics have exactly these problems as well. The exceptions are the ones written without these limitations (i.e. graphic novels, manga that do well enough to earn the mangaka the clout to do the ending properly).

 

[Winnosh]

Saying that Western comics never end isn't actually true. Comics run in cycles You have the original runs of a character and then eventually those end and there is a reboot. The new character may share a name and some details but they are for all intents and purposes a completely different person. The Superman right now is not the same as the Superman a few years ago and they may actually meet and interact some time in the future.

The previous Superman ran for about 15 years and I miss him so very much this new Superman just can't compare.

 

[Winnosh]

Also most western comics are lucky if they run for 12-18 issues. for every Superman or Batman that runs for a million issues you get a bunch more of smaller western superheroes that go for a couple of issues and then stop

 

[Queen Michael]

Also most western comics are lucky if they run for 12-18 issues. For every Superman or Batman that runs for a million issues you get a bunch more of smaller western superheroes that go for a couple of issues and then stop

Preach, brother. I still miss Static Shock, though I gotta admit that Static's New 52 series made me feel that both art-wise and plotwise, they didn't use the character's full potential.

 

[The_Echo]

I tend to dislike a lot of Western comics, in particular the DC and Marvel properties, because their characters are just...

Well, the title of Injustice: Gods Among Us is incredibly apt. These aren't superheroes, they're gods.

They never die; not for good anyway. And if one of them finally does, like the Flash for instance, then someone else conveniently shows up to refill the role. They're overpowered as all fuck (I've seen many people claim Batman could beat anyone if "given the time to prepare") and as a result, aren't all that interesting.

Why should I care about these ridiculously powerful, effectively-immortal beings? It's dumb.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

I tend to dislike a lot of Western comics, in particular the DC and Marvel properties, because their characters are just...

Well, the title of Injustice: Gods Among Us is incredibly apt. These aren't superheroes, they're gods.

They never die; not for good anyway. And if one of them finally does, like the Flash for instance, then someone else conveniently shows up to refill the role. They're overpowered as all fuck (I've seen many people claim Batman could beat anyone if "given the time to prepare") and as a result, aren't all that interesting.

Why should I care about these ridiculously powerful, effectively-immortal beings? It's dumb.

Interesting that you mention Flash, since Barry Allen came back from a VERY long time of being dead a little while ago and when asked about "why now?" the creators essentially explained that they waited so long (apparently some people wanted him back sooner), because of the magnitude of the events surrounding his death and that bringing him back right away or even after a short run would have trivialized those events and his death. His death and resurrection would have no 'weight' if it just happened easily, especially with a hand-wave like we're used to with the cliche we're used to. There's more impact, so to speak, if time passes. Or at least that's the creators' take on it anyway.

Which, I must admit that Flash: Rebirth was the first 'bring an old character back alive' book I'd read and frankly? I was surprised that it actually wasn't that bad to me. I expected some silly, not-really-an-answer answer, but someone put some serious thought into giving us an explanation that was truly tied into Barry and he was not just the solution, but for a time he was also the PROBLEM. I think between Flash Rebirth and Blackest Night...well....they may be bringing back characters but I have to give them points for at least TRYING to come up with clever ways to explain it.

 

[Queen Michael]

I tend to dislike a lot of Western comics, in particular the DC and Marvel properties, because their characters are just...

Well, the title of Injustice: Gods Among Us is incredibly apt. These aren't superheroes, they're gods.

They never die; not for good anyway. And if one of them finally does, like the Flash for instance, then someone else conveniently shows up to refill the role. They're overpowered as all fuck (I've seen many people claim Batman could beat anyone if "given the time to prepare") and as a result, aren't all that interesting.

Why should I care about these ridiculously powerful, effectively-immortal beings? It's dumb.

Your logic doesn't really make sense. If they're all overpowered, that means they're pretty much even, right?

 

[diligentscribbler]

You mean To Terra and stuff like that, right?

Yeah, mostly Akira though, I almost always have Otomo's work out while i draw the subtlety and dexterity which he seamlessly merges brush work with fine liners and quills in an emotive picture-scape is simply sublime, they just don't come like that anymore.

 

[AWAR]

The main problem with superhero comics is the main characters have been the same for 60 years. There's Spiderman, the Amazing Spiderman, the Wonderful Amazing Mega Spiderman but it's still ol'Spiderman. The suit might be different but it's still a nerdy student who got bit by a spider and the same "with great power come great responsibility blah-blah"premise.

Not really a fan of Mangas either, I like some animes mind you. I enjoy reading graphical novels mostly by European artists such as Nikopol, Wake, Skydol e.t.c

 

[Queen Michael]

Marvel are pissing me off[...] for too many event

I liked the events from Civil War up to when The Heroic Age started. It made it feel like there were ongoing politics in the Marvel universe.