Ubisoft: For Honor Not Designed For Players to Unlock Everything

Vinsin

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erttheking said:
To be specific about it; if I had to guess and it IS a guess since I've only heavily worked on two characters so far in my (checks this time) 120 hours (67 hours in PVP, so not even the technical 100 I thought I was)

I'd have to guess it's about 15 hours to get to Rep 4 and max out gear. Give or take 5 depending on your steel consumption, since I reallllllly wasted a ton of Steel (naturally earned, not paid) in the beginning to buy 'crates' and such at rep 1 when I couldn't actually get max tier items yet. So 15 hours to utterly outright 'max' is a decent enough guess.

As for the video / stats, what it really fails to show is the 'reality' of how it plays out. Starting with stat one, he chose heavy offense, defense with 0 stamina 'reduction' .. but stamina by itself is the right word, each swing draws out more stamina meaning your 100 pool isn't really 100, it's much less now due to each swing taking up way more : he can only sling a handful of attacks before he has to stop: HAS to stop, if he doesn't stop he reaches exhaustion level where he's extremely vulnerable (I mean like, potentially killed even from full health if you use it to your full advantage)and WILL get wrecked by any good player who takes advantage of it. Not only that, but there are moves and feats YOU can do that DRAIN stamina, not only this, but if he rolls, he loses stamina, so he's even limited on dodging after a flurry that you can have simply kept defensive, blocked, waited out his attacks and THEN make your play. Yes, his stamina regens more quickly; giving you a more limited time to deal with it but doing THAT meant he now can't revive for shit .. >

(Rant on revive stat but here we go: It can be extremely important, I can't describe the number of times I've won games because someone's revive was maddeningly slow and they couldn't get their buddy up to help them, or how many times I've lost because someone had zip for revive speed and couldn't get me up before their team showed to wreck them. It happens A .. LOT.. daily. It's honestly maddening sometimes. Makes me love us having a survivalist Nobushi who stacks revive and has her Revive feat to be honest when the enemy team doesn't think to execute their opponents, again, while I praise revive time & nobushi's perk, theres a counterplay to it by simply executing your opponents, but you'll find a LOT of players forgo executions in favor of the more reliable light attack rather than risking trying for a heavy at the end. It's a game changer.)

Now onto Block Damage: to be honest I can't describe how minute' this is, if you feel like you are taking to much damage that way, just parry instead of blocks or do PERFECT blocks to avoid it entirely and even get a free attack / guard break on them for your trouble; but your not going to lose any 'great' portion to block damage even if you went 0% block damage resistance, the stat is valuable, but it's not THAT valuable. Just don't get suckered into a guard break while parrying if you go that route. He's also not getting anything for healing after executions, which is actually an extreme detriment if he was taken down to low/half health & your team uses, or guards, the health and armor pickups on the map (or) is simply there to finish her (Often the case in Dominion, vastly important underestimated trait that's won me rounds.) wherein she'd have had a fair chance to win if she hadn't sacrificed that stat.

My 108 stacks that stat just so I get full health back after a win even if I was close to death, putting me on even ground for fight #2 even if they're right there behind me when I win! Whereas at gear 0 (50% stat) it still heals a great chunk, about half health. Now the PK is already the fastest class in the game and yes, stacking sprint means she can run at bolting speeds but that means she's running -- where?

Pick a fight with someone else on your team at the start? Great! Hopefully they're smart and block and get revenge and kill their opponent and her for the idiotic move that really is since they just have to block left or right and counter guard break - staying defensive while gaining revenge and the PK will just feeeeeeed that meter; I LOVE it when this happens. If she just sprints to a nearby pickup, often you can get to another one before she can get to hers AND get to you. Not to say sprinting isn't useful, but your sacrificing a chunk of value for it, a real chunk. There are areas where it can make a difference, but you've lost something else that I could say the same thing for. Just as you'd be vulnerable to runners if you ditched sprinting in favor of one of those stats!

Going with that, revenge gain on defense stacking is only useful if you spam attack her block, don't do that to anyone, even someone who doesn't stack it and NEVER gang up on people, it's dishonorable and your just feeding those revenge geared bunch to punish you for your foolishness! Be more cautious with your attacks and it won't even come into play, don't 2v1. It's just stupid to do against anyone, ever, period. Be honorable, you won't have to deal with it I can't stress that enough, the whole stat becomes null and void! Start assessing your opponents playstyle quickly and you can counterplay everything. plain and simple.

This has already gotten to long.. so let me just go with --
TLDR:
Counterplay whatever they stack. Every stat has a value, it's all useful and I'm often inclined to go back to 0 gear because of that. I only use my 108 gear because it's revenge stacked and makes me punish people who haven't listened to the above as I wipe them 1v4 every, single, time: while they blindly and continually just feed my revenge and then don't flee/block the god they've so wrongfully created and could have avoided altogether by simply.. playing.. smarter.

Edit:
I also can't stress how much this is a team game. Gear is null and voided in Duel and Brawl. It's not permitted. The only place you can even use your gear is in the 4v4 modes where your suppose to be a team either in deathmatch or dominion and outplaying your opponents is and always will be key, in Dominion a team with within reason - less reflexes and technical skill can win just by playing smarter and working together more than the other team. I don't write skirmish.. because frankly nobody likes that mode =P but .. even there too, perhaps even more so.
 

Erttheking

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Vinsin said:
Yeah, see, I don't consider fifteen hours to be fast in any regard. Particularly if they're fifteen hours of you getting your ass kicked because you have nothing and everyone else has bullshit gear.

Which, I would like to point out, is still offset by the fact that he has a stupidly high stamina regen. He gets exhausted? Once again, offset by the fact that he has high exhaustion recovery time. As for his revive being shit, it kind of stops being a problem if he can just kill everyone first/can't die in the first place, which doesn't really seem like it'll be a problem here.

He's not getting any health? Not really a big concern considering how high his defense is, along with how quickly he can go into revenge mode.

You talk about how you were able to 1v4 people...and yet you still insist that the game isn't broken. I really have no way to respond to that. You talk about how they could have won if they had fought smarter, but to be frank, you chances of winning should've been utterly 0%.

Don't act surprised that people are pissed by this play to win bullshit. Not everyone has enough time or patience to pour a hundred hours into a game to learn how to master it, because apparently that's what you have to do to get around this unbalanced crap. I'm glad you enjoy it, but the rest of us are pissed, and we're not pissed for no good reason. Plenty of us who looked at this game just wanted a nice melee combat simulator, only to get turned off by all off the stupid bullshit Ubisoft crammed down our throats.
 

Vinsin

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erttheking said:
Vinsin said:
Yeah, see, I don't consider fifteen hours to be fast in any regard. Particularly if they're fifteen hours of you getting your ass kicked because you have nothing and everyone else has bullshit gear.

Which, I would like to point out, is still offset by the fact that he has a stupidly high stamina regen. He gets exhausted? Once again, offset by the fact that he has high exhaustion recovery time. As for his revive being shit, it kind of stops being a problem if he can just kill everyone first/can't die in the first place, which doesn't really seem like it'll be a problem here.

He's not getting any health? Not really a big concern considering how high his defense is, along with how quickly he can go into revenge mode.

You talk about how you were able to 1v4 people...and yet you still insist that the game isn't broken. I really have no way to respond to that. You talk about how they could have won if they had fought smarter, but to be frank, you chances of winning should've been utterly 0%.

Don't act surprised that people are pissed by this play to win bullshit. Not everyone has enough time or patience to pour a hundred hours into a game to learn how to master it, because apparently that's what you have to do to get around this unbalanced crap. I'm glad you enjoy it, but the rest of us are pissed, and we're not pissed for no good reason.
Realize that when I said 1v4 wins happen, it's BECAUSE they were *feeding* into my playstyle and NOT adapting, not out playing me. I stacked revenge, they fed me revenge, I won. If they had fought one at a time and when/if I won that fight the next up and comer jumped in and STOPED my execution with a light attack, poof I got no health and they can freely rez that fallen friend and look, I'm at half health and fighting someone else at full health while your recent rez is at full health too! Now I'm 1v4 at half health.. quarter health.. dead, this all pretending that I'm outplaying them in 1v1's to begin with.

Not only that they're are other ways to out play revenge gear, with guard breaks for instance, or only attacking if you see I'm attacking your friend so I can't possibly block you, or using perks like bow, spear, kuni, ect.

It's outplaying your opponents through and through and you can have the mechanics of the game 'mastered' within .. I'd say 5 hours of legitimate practice, after which you could be doing the same as me with 0 gear. Also bear in mind a PK with 100% defense is still just a assassin : where she might have died in 3 heavy's before, she now dies to 4. It's not some major leap that garners her the health of a tank. She takes a extra mistake to kill, but also afford you the ability to make an extra mistake because of her lack of offense (or) can't flurry out like mad on you without stopping. It's a big deal, as if you watch and realize this is the case: you can counter play it and use it to your advantage as I often do.

I see someone with revenge gear, guess what? I don't feed revenge. I realize someone has stacked revive? I know I NEED to execute my opponents. I realize I'm taking to much block damage? I need to go for perfect blocks or normal parries and not give you a ton of them. Meanwhile as I've countered your advantage, your also at a further disadvantage somewhere else.

Don't get me wrong I feel I really know where the hate is and that's experience and agreeably matchmaking.

When you get someone new to the game playing against someone like me who's .. yeah *cocky* experienced and really good at the game, your going to get destroyed and blame my gear, when in reality it's my experience and the fact matchmaking poorly chose to put you against someone with my time and skill in the game. I've often been bitched at for my gear, only to rejoin the same match with 0 gear set and still won with the same outcome or in some cases, just barely lost but as a individual did the same as the round with gear.
 
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I always find it amazing how Ubisoft has this talent of finding good ideas and then grabbing hold on them to force them to be horrible.

That's conviction, people. To try to make good games into buyable middle fingers to the consumer. You have to admire that dedication.

Meanwhile, after buying this game on the first day, I've still not managed to play it at all. My computer's more than strong enough, it loads fine, I get the intro, and then the game refuses to respond to my commands. The ubisoft overlay is responsive and fluid. I'm playing Dark Souls 3 and Total War Warhammer just fine. But For Honor doesn't seem to want to play.
 

RJ 17

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Sure, you're not supposed to buy everything, just the ridiculously high level crap. It's not Pay2Complete, it's Pay2Win. :^)
 

Sniper Team 4

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Okay, okay...am I reading that last quote right? It sounds like he's saying, "Well, we don't know anyone who wants to do that, therefore no one in the entire world wants to do that."

Because if that is indeed what he's saying, that's like saying, "Well, I don't like cheeseburgers, so therefore no one likes cheeseburgers."
And if that is the logic behind Ubisoft, just...wow. I mean, wow...
 

Zydrate

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I feel like people, including youtube reviewers, complain about the Steel/Money thing haven't actually played more than 5-10 hours of it.

If you are strategic with your steel and only spend it at certain times, around the rep 3-5 rankings (As other posters have said) you can basically dump the several thousand steel you've earned and get item level 70-108 very damn quickly. My Peacekeeper is 103 right now I think at rep 4, though missing some revenge gear I'd rather have so I might lose a few points to do that side-grade.

Here's how you do it. Advanced tutorial gives something like 1500. Don't spent any until rep 1 on a hero, including all you gain by playing. Then buy a few, but not a full steel dump. That should get you in the blues (30+ish item level). Then don't spend any until rep 3-4, which starts giving you purples.

If you're strategic, you can max out 1-3 heroes in 100-150 hours depending on how you play. Without spending a dime. As they intended.
It's pay2progress faster more than pay2win.
 

Erttheking

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Kibeth41 said:
erttheking said:
While what Overwatch does is bullshit, For Honor is worse. In Overwatch it's mainly cosmetics. It's still bullshit, but if you really don't care about cosmetics, you can just play the game as is. For Honor's items affects gameplay, meaning there are Pay 2 Win elements in there. In fact, I've seen quite a few videos talking about how ridiculously fucking overpowered you can be with the best items, AND how matchmaking is not good at matching up people of equal level.
Don't comment if you're just going to spout lies.

You get enough currency to get max rank gear by the time you're able to unlock it (3rd prestige) without spending a penny so long as you do orders, and levels can't be bought.

Yes, max rank gear is retardedly broken in the game. It has NOTHING to do with microtransactions. Even if steel wasn't purchasable, nothing about the state of gearscore would be fixed. It's not pay to win, it's just unbalanced. It gates new players vs veterans, and stops veterans from levelling new characters.
Don't you call me a fucking liar. I've already lost my patience explaining my position, but here's a summary. If you can pay to get good gear, it's pay to win. It doesn't matter if you Carla catch up it's still pay to win
 

LostCrusader

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gigastar said:
Steven Bogos said:
Xsjadoblayde said:
Doesn't Overwatch have the same bullshit though? I'm sure this was brought up and some people were defending it mercilessly.
Overwatch unlockables have 0 gameplay effect. For Honor unlockables enhance your characater. If you don't farm the unlockables you aren't on an even playing field with players who have farmed or paid for the best gear.
I thought that was only in Dominion mode?
No, the gear applies to all of the 4v4 modes (Dominion, Elimination, Skirmish). The stat changes from gear are turned off for 1v1 and 2v2.

Also worth noting that the reddit post that is being referenced is related to unlocking every single cosmetic for every character, along side gear. So his figures are blown out of proportion IMO.
 

Wrex Brogan

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Zydrate said:
I kind of knew this already, and I don't know why everyone is so angry.
Their logic is fairly reasonable.
The microtransactions is kind of a big part of the whole drama. When you've got 99 dollar 'micro'-transactions in your already full-price AAA game, being told you're not supposed to unlock everything (but hey you totally could with an open wallet) kinda grinds everyones gears. Makes it feel less like an intentional design decision and more of a 'let's fuck up the games economy to try and bleed people for more cash with unnecessary free-to-play elements haphazardly slapped in' kind of shin-dig.
 

Vinsin

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Wrex Brogan said:
Zydrate said:
I kind of knew this already, and I don't know why everyone is so angry.
Their logic is fairly reasonable.
The microtransactions is kind of a big part of the whole drama. When you've got 99 dollar 'micro'-transactions in your already full-price AAA game, being told you're not supposed to unlock everything (but hey you totally could with an open wallet) kinda grinds everyones gears. Makes it feel less like an intentional design decision and more of a 'let's fuck up the games economy to try and bleed people for more cash with unnecessary free-to-play elements haphazardly slapped in' kind of shin-dig.
Microtransactions that only truly lead to cosmetics. As you can unlock all gear to max by withholding spending your earned steel from rep 0-3 (3 being when you unlock the ability to even get 108 gear if I'm not mistaken) and spending your steel on crates at that point : plus natural progression providing you a new piece of gear regularly literally just about every match without any additions. The only non-cosmetic you can get with cash, is "all feats" for a insane price that *shock gasp* .. you will have unlocked them all within at most 5 hours of playing that character, potentially even within 3, and meanwhile, you always have the base feats to use which are often the most useful. I could see getting a bit agitated with that one aspect, sort of, but even then not really. Leveling new characters, the feats are the least of my concerns and when they unlock it's kind of a 'Oh.. ok, well that's nifty maybe. I'll try it!'

I rep'd up Nobushi to 2 without a dime or even the 'boost' that came with buying the game and still rocked - also shock gasp.. using no gear. Didn't bother wearing any the entire time, didn't feel restrained in the least. Though I personally -hate- the Nobushi playstyle so that much was a regret :p Taking nobushi however as a for instance, her best feats are
Feat 1 #2 / Feat 2 #1 or #3 for dominion / Feat 3 #1 / Feat 4 #1 by leaps and BOUNDS. Since her 3&4 are her self heal and team heal, so you have her best right out the gate. Orochi's as another for instance, best is easily #1 / #any / #any but most go with 1 / annnd #1 for trapping enemies that can be revived : Kensei as my last example since this literally is attributed to just about everyone > 1 1 1 & then 2 or 3 for your last feat.

You can peek at overwatches lootboxes that'd take an insane amount of time just fine (or perhaps you can't, in which case no your not going to be fine with this) but if your cool with overwatch spoon feeding you a outfit or icon or spray once every (near to) 20 or so games, you can be fine getting a new gear every match + new cosmetics around every 10.
 

Wrex Brogan

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Vinsin said:
Wrex Brogan said:
Zydrate said:
I kind of knew this already, and I don't know why everyone is so angry.
Their logic is fairly reasonable.
The microtransactions is kind of a big part of the whole drama. When you've got 99 dollar 'micro'-transactions in your already full-price AAA game, being told you're not supposed to unlock everything (but hey you totally could with an open wallet) kinda grinds everyones gears. Makes it feel less like an intentional design decision and more of a 'let's fuck up the games economy to try and bleed people for more cash with unnecessary free-to-play elements haphazardly slapped in' kind of shin-dig.
Microtransactions that only truly lead to cosmetics. As you can unlock all gear to max by withholding spending your earned steel from rep 0-3 (3 being when you unlock the ability to even get 108 gear if I'm not mistaken) and spending your steel on crates at that point : plus natural progression providing you a new piece of gear regularly literally just about every match without any additions. The only non-cosmetic you can get with cash, is "all feats" for a insane price that *shock gasp* .. you will have unlocked them all within at most 5 hours of playing that character, potentially even within 3, and meanwhile, you always have the base feats to use which are often the most useful. I could see getting a bit agitated with that one aspect, sort of, but even then not really. Leveling new characters, the feats are the least of my concerns and when they unlock it's kind of a 'Oh.. ok, well that's nifty maybe. I'll try it!'

I rep'd up Nobushi to 2 without a dime or even the 'boost' that came with buying the game and still rocked - also shock gasp.. using no gear. Didn't bother wearing any the entire time, didn't feel restrained in the least. Though I personally -hate- the Nobushi playstyle so that much was a regret :p Taking nobushi however as a for instance, her best feats are
Feat 1 #2 / Feat 2 #1 or #3 for dominion / Feat 3 #1 / Feat 4 #1 by leaps and BOUNDS. Since her 3&4 are her self heal and team heal, so you have her best right out the gate. Orochi's as another for instance, best is easily #1 / #any / #any but most go with 1 / annnd #1 for trapping enemies that can be revived : Kensei as my last example since this literally is attributed to just about everyone > 1 1 1 & then 2 or 3 for your last feat.

You can peek at overwatches lootboxes that'd take an insane amount of time just fine (or perhaps you can't, in which case no your not going to be fine with this) but if your cool with overwatch spoon feeding you a outfit or icon or spray once every (near to) 20 or so games, you can be fine getting a new gear every match + new cosmetics around every 10.
...seriously? Lay off the fan-boying for 5 seconds here friend, I haven't mentioned Overwatch at all, I'm literally just calling Ubisoft out on their shit here because a full price AAA game doesn't need microtransactions. Doesn't matter what they're for - could be cosmetics, could be pay-to-win, could literally pop up a message saying 'You're a Sucker!', still a dick move that's completely unnecessary to the game. I play the fucking game (and enjoy it quite a bit) and I'm still calling them on their shit, because it's... a dick move. Doesn't need to be there. Could've very easily not been a greedy shit and slammed 'em into the game and people would be far, far, far less critical of the grind, but Ubisoft can't help itself and has to Ubisoft all over a good idea.

Great game. Nothing more fun than going 1v3 as a Lawbringer and throwing each ************ off a cliff like an asshole. But the problem - and the problem a lot of people have - is the microtransactions. 2.5 years to unlock everything? Sure, whatever. 732 dollars to unlock everything? Get fucked, Ubisoft.
 

Vinsin

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Wrex Brogan said:
I just can't help but be amused by it being called fanboyism when I don't like Ubisoft to begin with, and have no real invested interest in For Honor either. It's a fun game, with silly microtransactions for cosmetics for those that want to throw money at it and invest further into the game. Cool. Happens everywhere and Overwatch is the popular example; another game I enjoy, but by no means really care about Blizzard either.

It's a reality that doesn't take away from anything, doesn't hurt anyone in it's present state and it's hardly fanboyism to not hate it, I don't even dislike it in it's present state. It merely exists as something I'll never use and can't really bring myself to care if someone else does.
 

Ryallen

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Worgen said:
Wow, they really don't seem to know how gamers like to play games. Some might only play one or two but most that want to be good play all.
To their credit, I'm friends with a lot of fighting game players and none of them try to play more than two or three characters at once. And seeing as how For Honor is basically a third person fighting game, it's not an entirely unreasonable assumption to make. Granted, the micro transactions are horrid, but fighting games, in a competitive sense, aren't friendly to people who want to play everything. Even my friends who play them casually try to get good at only one or two at a time. Their problem was locking them all but three off behind a wall that you have to pay to get past, and then the equipment being able to be bought.
 

Worgen

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Ryallen said:
Worgen said:
Wow, they really don't seem to know how gamers like to play games. Some might only play one or two but most that want to be good play all.
To their credit, I'm friends with a lot of fighting game players and none of them try to play more than two or three characters at once. And seeing as how For Honor is basically a third person fighting game, it's not an entirely unreasonable assumption to make. Granted, the micro transactions are horrid, but fighting games, in a competitive sense, aren't friendly to people who want to play everything. Even my friends who play them casually try to get good at only one or two at a time. Their problem was locking them all but three off behind a wall that you have to pay to get past, and then the equipment being able to be bought.
They main two or three but they will have at least played every character once since you need to, to really understand how the characters play and their weak points.
 

A'tuin

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goofsg said:
sad, i was considering buying for honor at some point now i won t.screw ubisoft im never buying one of their games again after this.
they have no idea what they are doing and can not run a company. this is horrible for honor has so much potential .but its all wasted now
Is this a serious post? After all the shit Ubisoft has done, some cosmetic items being hard to achieve makes you boycot Ubisoft?

I honestly don't see anything wrong with this gear system. In fact I think it's better than having really cheap cosmetics that you can easily farm in a week, because after that your gold (or steel or whatever) would be worthless and you'd have nothing to achieve. How is this ruining the game?