UK Atheists Hope to Eliminate Jedi Population

[Unesh52]

Because atheism is an anti-religion.

Ha! No, seriously, go to the religion & politics boards and make a thread claiming that Atheism is the same thing as being anti-religion. Just do it. Come back with what little of your limbs you have left and tell me what happened.

They're not campaigning for the public rights, they're campaigning against religious rights.

They're not campaigning for or against anyone's rights! They're campaigning for an accurate census! Admittedly, they only have a vested interest in it because they feel their demographic (the non-religious) is being underrepresented, and probably wouldn't give to shits if it was Christians being marginalized, but that doesn't make their message suddenly not honest and useful. The leading nature of the question and the flippant attitude of the public is creating a misrepresentation of the facts in an area where a glance at the data could decide how hundreds of thousands of tax dollars are appropriated. This should be addressed by the government anyway, but this organization isn't being dishonest or unjust to anyone by doing it themselves. Quite the opposite.

It's not like the polls have any more function than voting, other than which figurehead you get to stand behind.

I don't know what you mean by "which figurehead you get to stand behind." Who is the "you" here, first of all?

But actually, I think the voting comparison may have some worth. What if thousands of people wrote in "Optimus Prime" for a high ranking government office next voting season? Some people do it to be funny, some because they want to "stick it to the man," but at the end of the day, public opinion has been wasted. And what if an unpopular politician is elected due to the loss of those thousands of votes? Is it worth the message mongering and "lulz" to be governed by someone you disagree with or don't trust?

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

What if you actually have a real belief in the Jedi Code and way of life?

Jedi are the guardians of peace in the galaxy.
Jedi use their powers to defend and to protect.
Jedi respect all life, in any form.
Jedi serve others rather than ruling over them, for the good of the galaxy.
Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet the Force.

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
(There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

The three best known versions of the Jedi Code. In the original there are simple slogan to try and mold oneself to, seeking peace despite the turbulence of emotion etc. The refined version, the best known one, is perhaps not the best to follow I'll grant, but the rewritten version (the one at the top) strikes me as being a very sensible way to lvie one's life.

There's a whole debate which takes place in the more recent books about whether anyone can be a Jedi, even if they don't have the Force, and although the story and narrative still just keeps Force users as Jedi, the characters all decide that being a Jedi is just a code of existence that you hold yourself to. Use your powers, whatever they are, to protect and defend, respect life, improve yourself.

Bottom line is that it's easy to argue that Jediism is a philosophy, and one that can be followed quite easily, especially when not in the confines of the Star Wars universe.

If I was going to choose a religion or code to follow, I'd probably follow something a lot like the Jedi way of life. And as far as I understand religion, that basically makes me a Jedi, as long as I also practice things like meditation (which I do already) and actively try and uphold the virtues, which I suppose I kind of do anyway.

I think I just realised that I might be a Jedi in real life.

 

[DoW Lowen]

I find their lack of faith disturbing.

I guess the Athiests wont be happy until everyone is as miserable as they are.

Okay I know being offended isn't an argument despite it's popular use in political and media circles as one, but I am actually offended by your post. I don't find dead baby jokes offensive, but you've managed to pull it off with that statement.

How many atheists have you met? What makes them so miserable? Because they do not believe in a supernatural superintendent? I should stop here, because I can go on forever - BUT

How does ANY of what this story about mean "Athiests wont be happy until everyone is as miserable as they are"? Seriously, what is with people's reaction to ANYTHING atheist? Before I could laugh it off, but I'm no longer speaking as an atheist but as a rational human being - how can you misread something or react to something so badly?

 

[Surreysmith]

It's ridiculous to say that people shouldn't self-identify as a particular religion unless they reach some standard of devoutness. It seems almost reasonable when we apply it to stuff that seems like a joke like the Church of Jediism, but if we apply it to a more privileged religion like Christianity, it gets ugly... It would be offensive if a private organization ran a campaign like that; it would be a significant step toward religious hegemony if the actual government decided to require a standard of devoutness for census responses.

Here here.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

It's not "Atheists," it's the British Humanist Association (an apparently Atheist group, considering what Humanism is, but hardly speaking for the whole).

A neopagan once told me that if there's six Wiccans in a room there's at least seven different faiths. I've long since realized that if you put six atheists in a room there's at least seven different nonfaiths.

For some rather bizarre reason it told me that this was a quote of mine. Strange. But I might as well chime in.

It's the "New Atheists" (i.e. Daniel Dennet, Richard Dawkins, Cristopher Hitchins and Sam Harris)who want to destroy religion because they think it's somehow the cause of all human woes (and not human nature itself, LOL). Many secular humanists feel the same way. They're really rather pathetic creatures.

Belief is belief. I don't really think it matters what you believe in so much as it matters HOW you believe (i.e. as a rationalistic skeptic or a dogmatic asshole that has to crap all over everyone else's beliefs). Many atheists belong to the latter category. Though I'm not a postmodernist, and do enjoy the pursuit of truth, not everyone needs to know the truth in order to live. In fact, some people just can't handle it, as Jack Nicholson would put it.

 

[madmatt]

i don't see how putting in a joke hurts other people - maybe if it was income, but government doesn't base policy based on the number of religious people in an area. Partly because they aren't allowed to take a persons' religion into account in deciding policy, partly as they are ostensibly secular and partly because government policy isn't dependent on your religion.

Suely it's a reaction against a question people feel is a bit invasive and poke fun at as a result.

I am going to put in the most worshipful and holy church of crunchie bars.

 

[Therumancer]

Seems to me that the guys doing the complaining are missing the point entirely.

As I understand things the whole "Jedi Uprising" thing was done not by Atheists trying to be funny, but by people who objected to the goverment gathering that kind of information. A sort of "right to privacy" thing, where you might agree with the need for a census, but object to some of the information being compiled. I think the Jedi might have included Atheists, but also probably included a lot of people who DO practice a religion but were objecting to the question and were attempting to scew the results by giving a sort of "none of your business" response.

To be honest, I tend to agree with this, and am one of those people who believes that a lot of first world countries should start having their records destroyed in the name of public interest. As ridiculous as it sounds, I'm occasionally apalled at information that private companies as well as the goverment have managed to compile, or require to be given before providing nessicary services. There is such a massive amount of information out there in various records that I think the only real solution is rapidly becoming one where the records need to be destroyed in their entirety.

Even if it amounts to a war due to not accepting/maintaining records of, foreign debts or whatever, I think it's time to pretty much take flame throwers and magnets to currently exisitng databases, followed by imposing some pretty strict laws on what kind of information can be compiled from there on out.

I say this because as ironic as it sounds, the proliferation of records, and the fact that everyone leaves an "information footprint" when they do pretty much anything is a problem. What's more when I see companies like Nintendo implementing technology that they can basically use to track someone via their 3DS, both in their activity with the machine, and by what connections it automatically winds up accessing, all in the interests of "preventing piracy", things have simply gone too far.... and that's just the private sector. I don't see what business it is of the goverments who or what you pray to (if anything at all) faith is a private matter. Honestly I'm skeptical enough to feel that they already have this information in some places, and the census forms are just a method of updating it for certain offices.

I have no desire to see libraries burned or anything (so don't misinterpet this) just the records kept by things like town halls, clerks offices, debt collectors (who then sell that information to others), marketers, etc...

 

[Me55enger]

And so I find a yank telling me how to fill out my census form. Cheers.

10 years ago, 400,000 people told the government to piss off and mind their own business. Anybody living in Britain will know that that number is likely to rise, considering the wider public opinion.

And anyway, the Sith Lord is British.

 

[Yomandude]

So glad America has the whole "freedom of religion" thing going on...

 

[Atmos Duality]

Anything else you bring up is tangent to this issue, because the fact of the matter is all they are asking is for accurate data - fuck all the political bullshit that comes with it, any member in society who believes in pluralism would want an accurate census, because atheist, christian, muslim or even serious Jedi's - it's the RESPONSIBLE thing to do. Any other critical argument I have for it I already posted.

So where does everything else you bring in come into play with this other than exhibiting your thinly veiled contempt?

If they WANTED to be counted as strictly Atheists (or anything else) they would have said so in the first place.

As ludicrous as a Jedi religion/belief is (to either you or me), we don't get to make the decision of what is or isn't a valid representation of their beliefs, that choice and responsibility falls upon those who want to be represented as such (whether they wholeheartedly believe in it or not is irrelevant, a people choose how they want to be represented; this is a fundamental principle of representative government).

Do I think a Jedi religion is absurd? Yes. I do.
Does/Should MY OPINION MATTER in regards to census data?
NO. It doesn't/shouldn't. If it were a matter of religious denomination (a similar concept), I wouldn't try to shoehorn all the (for example) Christians together if they didn't want to be.

This will be final reply to you on the matter, as your own contempt for me is leaking through in every subsequent post.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Ha! No, seriously, go to the religion & politics boards and make a thread claiming that Atheism is the same thing as being anti-religion. Just do it. Come back with what little of your limbs you have left and tell me what happened.

I gave up trolling Religion and Politics some time ago. People have a right to think what they wish. But if we ever see "Atheists" in the news, it's always about bringing down Religion. There are some wonderful atheists, there are some wonderful religious people - but it's just another side to the fight when it gets a capital A.

They're campaigning for an accurate census!

Never gonna happen. Which is what this whole thing is all about. No-one wants an accurate census as it would tell the public (and the civil service) exactly what they don't want to know.

Admittedly, they only have a vested interest in it because they feel their demographic (the non-religious) is being underrepresented, and probably wouldn't give to shits if it was Christians being marginalized, but that doesn't make their message suddenly not honest and useful.

There's an ulterior motive. Whatever honest and useful action it may serve won't be born out.

The leading nature of the question and the flippant attitude of the public is creating a misrepresentation of the facts in an area where a glance at the data could decide how hundreds of thousands of tax dollars are appropriated.

No, it really isn't. The flippant attitude of the public is EXACTLY what should be being looked for. People DON'T CARE about census's - which makes them not only a waste of money - but a true denotation of what public attitude is.

Who is the "you" here, first of all?

Depends on who "you" are. If you think "The Selfish Gene" is great work, Dawkins. If you think the Bible is, God. If you think Star Wars, Obi Wan.

But actually, I think the voting comparison may have some worth. What if thousands of people wrote in "Optimus Prime" for a high ranking government office next voting season? Some people do it to be funny, some because they want to "stick it to the man," but at the end of the day, public opinion has been wasted.

No it hasn't. There is no official "Re-Open Nominations" vote on Government; we're putting up with the second un-elected Government, and they're still balking on campaign promises.

People are voting in one way because they trust the actions of Trolls more than Politicians. That's a huge denotation of public opinion. And against the actions of using a census to herd them into little boxes.

 

[Surreysmith]

I get the impression that the vast majority of the people who respond to these kind of stories can't read or are incredibly reactionary. All this group does is want to make sure that the 2011 Census is accurate because it's incredibly useful for the Government to, you know, run the fucking country.

Not that Cameron and Clegg can run the country, but that's beside the point.

I don't see what part of running the country this affects. pensions , nope. transport , nope. taxes, nope. employment , nope. education, just stick on a box set at the last day of term.

 

[Surreysmith]

Double post sorry.

 

[Issurru]

Well seeing as how I'll probably (finally) get a census this year (finally moved out) I'm putting Jedi in there. figured that it's pretty much like Buddhism (sp?) (but also thats just through my eyes, no offense to anyone) I feel like its a decent enough philosophy to follow and (to me) has just as much merit to being a religion as any other (Sorry, I do not intend to start a flame war by saying this as this is just from my point of view)

 

[Unesh52]

Considering the teachings of the Jedi are just the same as pretty much any other religion I don't see why one couldn't follow Jedi as a religion or why anyone would have a problem with it.

No one does. The campaign is targeting people who lied about it on the census as a joke.

It's not "Atheists," it's the British Humanist Association (an apparently Atheist group, considering what Humanism is, but hardly speaking for the whole).

A neopagan once told me that if there's six Wiccans in a room there's at least seven different faiths. I've long since realized that if you put six atheists in a room there's at least seven different nonfaiths.

The link to the post you're quoting doesn't seem to be working and I can't remember if you're the same person who I wrote that to.

Anyway, you're right. That just goes to show that stereotypes and generalizations are unwarranted. And that was kind of my point. Lots of people ITT are throwing Atheists all together and claiming an Atheist agenda against religion. But if you disagree with this campaign, you can't generalize your objection to all Atheists, as if we'd all been there and deliberated on the matter before this independent group, which is only incidentally Atheist if it truly is after all, decided to put up the web page.

I get the impression that the vast majority of the people who respond to these kind of stories can't read or are incredibly reactionary. All this group does is want to make sure that the 2011 Census is accurate because it's incredibly useful for the Government to, you know, run the fucking country.

Not that Cameron and Clegg can run the country, but that's beside the point.

Exactly. I agree.

...Also, what are you talking about at the end there?

 

[Requx]

Be religious or not there are no agnostics.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

How many atheists have you met? What makes them so miserable? Because they do not believe in a supernatural superintendent? I should stop here, because I can go on forever - BUT

How does ANY of what this story about mean "Athiests wont be happy until everyone is as miserable as they are"? Seriously, what is with people's reaction to ANYTHING atheist? Before I could laugh it off, but I'm no longer speaking as an atheist but as a rational human being - how can you misread something or react to something so badly?

Atheism is like any other religion; A strong core of beliefs amongst its followers. In that they believe there is no God. And like any other religion, they become offended when others speak out against it or dont share their beliefs.

I know 7 athiests, and they are all Emos'. Its not a generalisation as a whole since I dont know every athiest. I can only go off the ones I know and the ones that crop up in the various media sources, who also come off as Emo. Emos are generally miserable.

 

[standokan]

I don't care, I'm a wizard.

 

[RamirezDoEverything]

Wait.. people are seriously attending the Church of Jedi?

I.. I.. my head hurts.

I'm not one to judge religion, but I didn't know people actually did this!