UK Consumer Advocate Feuds With Game Retailer, Makes Up

[Kingsnake661]

The store was in the right IMO, but i have to wonder, do most 15 year olds have photo ID's? I didn't have a photo ID until i got my drivers permit. I was, prolly 17 or 18 at the time. (driving was never a big deal.)

What's a 15 year old to do? Guess they have send in there parents. Heh. Never been an issues for me. I was well over 21 before stores started IDing people for games, and, I've NEVER been ID'd. I've always looked older then I was. When i was 18, at my first job in a retail store, they'd use me to check and see if our cashers were IDing for Beer. I never got carded. I don't drink, so it never matterd to me, but it was kind of funny.

Come to think of it, I don't think i've ever been carded for my AGE. Not once. (course, i don't drink, so, i guess it's not really that suprising.) *shrug*

 

[Woodsey]

they can get fined a lot of money for selling to someone under the age of the rating.

.

Doubt it happens in the entertainment sector so much because age rating stuff in the media isn't really a huge public concern in the UK,

Actually, I heard there's a fine in the region of £3000.

 

[Nikki_Viper]

Normally, parents freak out about videogame stores sell mature games to kids, instead of refusing to make a sale when a kid can't produce valid proof of age. Personally, I'm curious about what Shepherd said to Portas that got her to change her mind.

Not actually really true. You hear about parents freaking out over selling M-rated games to minors in the media more, but at a store-level, it's actually much more common to have a parent rail on you for refusing to sell their 12-year-old a copy of GTA, and having the AUDACITY to cause them the inconvenience of having to consent to the purchase, or presuming to do their job for them.

-m

Or when the parents comes in, buys and M rated game, and then comes back 1 hour later saying "You should have told me this isn't for little kids! My 8 year told son was playing this!"

I've worked in games retail for 8 years, and I don't think I've ever actually had this happen. Parents most commonly get pissed when you involve them in the parenting process.

-m

Really? Interesting. I saw it happen in front of me one day while browsing. The employee was a weak man and the manager happened to be on site. My home is a decent small town so I actually know the people working there. The manager explained that a 35 year old purchased a game rated M, and if the customer didn't explain that the game was for a child, the employee had every right to assume the person buying the game is the person playing the game.

 

[Kingsnake661]

Normally, parents freak out about videogame stores sell mature games to kids, instead of refusing to make a sale when a kid can't produce valid proof of age. Personally, I'm curious about what Shepherd said to Portas that got her to change her mind.

Not actually really true. You hear about parents freaking out over selling M-rated games to minors in the media more, but at a store-level, it's actually much more common to have a parent rail on you for refusing to sell their 12-year-old a copy of GTA, and having the AUDACITY to cause them the inconvenience of having to consent to the purchase, or presuming to do their job for them.

-m

Or when the parents comes in, buys and M rated game, and then comes back 1 hour later saying "You should have told me this isn't for little kids! My 8 year told son was playing this!"

I've worked in games retail for 8 years, and I don't think I've ever actually had this happen. Parents most commonly get pissed when you involve them in the parenting process.

-m

I accually remember watching with alot of amusement, the day Halo reach came out, a LONG line of young kids with there Dad or Mon in toe, bying the game. It was kind of comical. They step up, kid hands the game, casher askes for ID, Dad pays, casher starts his, "this is rated M" speach, Dad, cuts them off, annoyied, pays. Repeat like 10 times. Heh.

 

[Leonhart321]

Wait, disregarding the whole consumer watchdog sidebar, a parent is angry because mature content in a videogame was DENIED to their child? Especially since the store, quite responsibly, asked for I.D?

Wall of text ahead

Spoiler

For a start, what crazy stupid parallel universe have I wandered into?

For a second, if the kid had done this while buying sdomething like alcohol, and the same situation occured, the store would be completely in the right by denying the product. Yet again, double standards for the gaming and entertainment industry as a whole.

Thirdly, it is clearly stated that it needs to be a valid form of photo I.D, which is either a passport, driving license or I.D. Card, that needs to be produced for any purcase of age restricted content. An Oyster card, which is basically (as stated) a travelcard, is NOT valid for the same reason why an Xplore card (discount card for transport) which is also a photographic based travel card isn't valid for these types of purchases.

Fourth, a staff member recommending titles based on given age and a cashier making sure they keep their job are and have entirely different circumstances as to what they can or can't do.

Finally, she should know better. If something has been withheld from a child/teenager under age restriction circumstances, IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE UNDER AGE. Unless definitive proof of I.D is shown, the store is well within their rights to refuse sale of the products, regardless of how "important" the parent is or how loud their voice is. THE LAW IS THE LAW, DEAL WITH IT.

/rant

 

[Captainguy42]

As an 18 year old without a driver's licensee, I can kinda relate to this kid's problem. In the US there are lots of stores that won't sell you M rater games without an ID but the problem is, most people don't give ID's with both age, name, and photo. My school ID only has name and photo, but no way to prove I'm old enough to buy M games. So I'm reduced to either bringing my Passport around or my birth-certificate. Now going throw this process to get a 17+ game is annoying enough. But getting stopped from getting a 15+ or teen game? That would piss me off.

 

[Simalacrum]

Yeah, GAME were right not to sell the game in this case. Oyster Cards most certainly do not count as proper ID, and so the employer was probably just following standard regulations regarding selling games to people who could be a minor.

 

[IckleMissMayhem]

Stupid bloody woman. If he's a 17 year old, he should know better than to try and prove his age with something that isn't an ID card - and then go home and complain to Mummy about the nasty people in the VG shop that wouldn't let him buy games, instead of doing what anyone sensible would have done - asked them to hold the games for an hour or so, while he nipped home to get some ACTUAL proof of ID.
Well done Oxford St GAME! Less well done to the branch I was in last week that sold an 18 rated game to a pair of quite obviously underage kids though...

 

[Thedutchjelle]

The store was in the right IMO, but i have to wonder, do most 15 year olds have photo ID's? I didn't have a photo ID until i got my drivers permit. I was, prolly 17 or 18 at the time. (driving was never a big deal.)

What's a 15 year old to do? Guess they have send in there parents. Heh. Never been an issues for me. I was well over 21 before stores started IDing people for games, and, I've NEVER been ID'd. I've always looked older then I was. When i was 18, at my first job in a retail store, they'd use me to check and see if our cashers were IDing for Beer. I never got carded. I don't drink, so it never matterd to me, but it was kind of funny.

Come to think of it, I don't think i've ever been carded for my AGE. Not once. (course, i don't drink, so, i guess it's not really that suprising.) *shrug*

I'm not sure about England, but some European countries (like The Netherlands) require by law that citizens carry an ID at all times when in public. For instance, I've had to buy a ID when I turned 14. It's official, so you can use it in shops, when dealing with the law, when crossing borders etc.

Since I don't look all that old apparently, I've had store employees ask me for my ID when buying a 16+ game. I'm 19. At first I was pissed, but then I heard from someone about the massive fines a shop got that broke the rules in this area. All the other shops are careful now.

 

[Subarashii]

Theyve done that to me before and im obviously over 15, also have a student card which says my age on it, so annoying but its their rules and I can see why.

 

[Jonci]

I had to deal with this crap when I worked at Gamestop. No one was getting that rated-M game without some serious age lines or an ID. Had some mother that wasn't happy that I wouldn't sell her kid some game. Also had to shoot down some actual 17 year olds that couldn't produce an ID.

As for parents, it usually didn't take much to talk them down once they know the reason they had to come and purchase it themselves. Of course not a single parent ever decided against the game even after the "This game is rated M for..." speech.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Geez they are doing their job right? While her son is the right age but I rather hear more of this then the whole complain about underage kids playing mature games.

 

[Captainguy42]

As an 18 year old without a driver's licensee, I can kinda relate to this kid's problem. In the US there are lots of stores that won't sell you M rater games without an ID but the problem is, most people don't give ID's with both age, name, and photo. My school ID only has name and photo, but no way to prove I'm old enough to buy M games. So I'm reduced to either bringing my Passport around or my birth-certificate. Now going throw this process to get a 17+ game is annoying enough. But getting stopped from getting a 15+ or teen game? That would piss me off.

In the UK theres a thing called a ProveIT card which can be applied for at 15(i think) as far as im aware its free.

Oh, well in the US no such thing exists to my knowledge, least no in California. I wish it did, that would be helpful, or that my school would have the foresight to add age to the student ID cards.

This does of course change my opinion of the situation, if he could have a valid license without having to jump through the hoops that you do for a Drivers License, or having to risk bringing a document like a passport around, he should have it and use it, I know I would in his situation. I thought it was unrealistic for requiring ID for 15+ because no one in the US would have an ID by then. In which case, good on the store for ensuring that games get in the hands of those mature enough for them. And boo on the mom for complaining about a something that probably came around as a result of people like her complaining about stores selling games to whoever.

 

[dragontiers]

As an 18 year old without a driver's licensee, I can kinda relate to this kid's problem. In the US there are lots of stores that won't sell you M rater games without an ID but the problem is, most people don't give ID's with both age, name, and photo. My school ID only has name and photo, but no way to prove I'm old enough to buy M games. So I'm reduced to either bringing my Passport around or my birth-certificate. Now going throw this process to get a 17+ game is annoying enough. But getting stopped from getting a 15+ or teen game? That would piss me off.

In the UK theres a thing called a ProveIT card which can be applied for at 15(i think) as far as im aware its free.

Oh, well in the US no such thing exists to my knowledge, least no in California. I wish it did, that would be helpful, or that my school would have the foresight to add age to the student ID cards.

This does of course change my opinion of the situation, if he could have a valid license without having to jump through the hoops that you do for a Drivers License, or having to risk bringing a document like a passport around, he should have it and use it, I know I would in his situation. I thought it was unrealistic for requiring ID for 15+ because no one in the US would have an ID by then. In which case, good on the store for ensuring that games get in the hands of those mature enough for them. And boo on the mom for complaining about a something that probably came around as a result of people like her complaining about stores selling games to whoever.

I don't know specifically about CA, but most states have some form of Non-License ID available. Here in NY you can get a Sheriff's ID, which is basically just a photo ID with your name, birth-date, and state seal on it. I believe you just need to go to the city building to apply for one. In PA, you can just go to the DMV and ask for a Non-Driver ID card. It looks exactly the same as the state driver's license, but it has a big red NON-DRIVER ID written on the top where it normally states what classification your license is. I would go to your local DMV or city building and ask. It couldn't hurt.

EDIT: And as for the last part of your post, I am reminded of an exchange I read on NotAlwaysRight in which a customer had written "See ID" on the back of their credit card. When the cashier asked to see their ID, the customer actually told them that only applied "if the card was stolen", as if the cashier would be able to tell, without seeing an ID, if the card was stolen or not. People aren't always the brightest crayons in the box.

 

[Harbinger_]

Shepherd must have said that this was his favorite store on the citadel.

On topic however I think that most parents should be happy that something like this occurred rather than not as it shows some actual interest in adhering to rules on the retailer side.

Of course most parents don't actually want to do any parenting so I can see why she'd complain plus its free publicity for her TV show.

 

[Mehall]

Actually, I heard there's a fine in the region of £3000.

To the store, yes. Certainly not to the individual selling it.

EDIT: And my other point was that its rarely concerned parents which cause these companies to get caught selling stuff to underage people. Its purposely sent in plants by people who work for trading standards. Though ironically the people can gain more of a rep and better promotion prospects by getting something considered 'big' in the public view. Hence why i said about bunge drinking, theyre not likely to bother with games/movies because no one ere really cares.

Fraid not. GAME, like many retailers in such a business, give training to all staff that is refreshed quarterly, and the till system prompts for age checks on all age restricted products. (on the 15, 16 and 18 certs, that is)

If you sell a game to an underager it is YOU who are liable, the company has done everything it can to protect you (and itself, obviously)

It's an up to £5k fine, actually, immediate dismissal and a criminal record. For the one who sells it, not the retailer.