UK Consumer Advocate Feuds With Game Retailer, Makes Up

[The Diabolical Biz]

But I'm over 15 and my Oyster has photo I.D. on it...

 

[Mehall]

Actually, I heard there's a fine in the region of £3000.

To the store, yes. Certainly not to the individual selling it.

EDIT: And my other point was that its rarely concerned parents which cause these companies to get caught selling stuff to underage people. Its purposely sent in plants by people who work for trading standards. Though ironically the people can gain more of a rep and better promotion prospects by getting something considered 'big' in the public view. Hence why i said about bunge drinking, theyre not likely to bother with games/movies because no one ere really cares.

Fraid not. GAME, like many retailers in such a business, give training to all staff that is refreshed quarterly, and the till system prompts for age checks on all age restricted products. (on the 15, 16 and 18 certs, that is)

If you sell a game to an underager it is YOU who are liable, the company has done everything it can to protect you (and itself, obviously)

It's an up to £5k fine, actually, immediate dismissal and a criminal record. For the one who sells it, not the retailer.

Really? Well either alcahol licencing works differerntly or the law has changed in the last few years tis all I can say.

I think alcohol licensing is different. The main difference is it's an offence to sell alcohol to someone if you suspect it is for an underager, whereas so long as the person buying the game is old enough to buy the game, it's legal.

 

[epikAXE]

Oyster card = Not valid ID.

Its not photoproof (unlike passport, drivers licence) the cashier was only obaying the law. If they had sold him and he turned out to be underage then they could be facing the law and the cashier would probably loose thier job. Seriously some people are just never fucking happy with anything.

 

[Karilas]

The more i hear about or see Mary Portas on things the more i am sure this women has not a clue how the retail world works.Also i find her dangerous to it as some people actually listen the shit she says and believe every bit of it.

The oyster card is not photo id also it says on the card not to be used as age id.So her son did not have offical ID and the retailer rightly so refused the sale as is there legal right.

If this happened to other way round that the retailer sold an 18 game to a 15 year old they would have been crucified for it.

Precisely this.

She never heard of Challenge 21?

Shit, I'm 26 and I still get ID'd from time to time for smokes and beer, sure it's an inconvenience, but a necessary evil.

The penalties levied against retailers for underage sale of pretty much any age restricted product are massive. Silly woman.

 

[blarghblarghhhhh]

As an 18 year old without a driver's licensee, I can kinda relate to this kid's problem. In the US there are lots of stores that won't sell you M rater games without an ID but the problem is, most people don't give ID's with both age, name, and photo. My school ID only has name and photo, but no way to prove I'm old enough to buy M games. So I'm reduced to either bringing my Passport around or my birth-certificate. Now going throw this process to get a 17+ game is annoying enough. But getting stopped from getting a 15+ or teen game? That would piss me off.

why dont you get an id? there like 15 bucks.

 

[dragontiers]

But I'm over 15 and my Oyster has photo I.D. on it...

As someone who has worked retail before, I need to see at least three things on an ID in order to accept it:
1) Your photo (so I know it's you and you didn't swipe it from Mom/Dad/Big Brother)
2) Your birth-date (so I know you are of age)
3) Some form of government seal/logo/etc. (so I know all the information is valid as not everyone who issues ID's is as thorough about ensuring all the information is correct)

Additionally, I am also empowered to refuse an ID if it does not seem valid. Examples of this include:
1) Card is broken/damaged
2) Suspicious scratch/cut marks near the year on date of birth/picture
3) Picture looks significantly different/seems off center/background does not seem proper
4) Other suspicious markings or issues

Now I am not familiar with the Oyster cards (as I am an American), but numerous people on this thread have stated that the cards are marked as "Not a valid form or ID" and are issued by a travel agency and not a government agency. In that case, I would refuse it as well. However, I have had my boss accept unusual combinations if ID, such as birth certificate (birth date and state seal, but no photo) and benefit card (photo and state seal, but no birthdate) because they also had the same name on them, indicating they were for the same person. Legally, if it turned out the person was not of age, he would likely get in trouble for it, but at least that person was trying. Personally, I would just stick to a legal ID.

 

[Zannkimaru]

I remember from my time working in Gamestation over here in the UK, we were told if you were not sure always ask for ID otherwise it's an immediate dismissal and a 5k fine to the member of staff that was in the wrong, not the stores fault if you didn't check.
Oh and i've seen parents cause an almighty fuss about a member of staff not selling an 18 rated game to a 10 year old only to turn around and have a go at their child when we've proceeded to tell them why the game is rated an 18.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

But I'm over 15 and my Oyster has photo I.D. on it...

As someone who has worked retail before, I need to see at least three things on an ID in order to accept it:
1) Your photo (so I know it's you and you didn't swipe it from Mom/Dad/Big Brother)
2) Your birth-date (so I know you are of age)
3) Some form of government seal/logo/etc. (so I know all the information is valid as not everyone who issues ID's is as thorough about ensuring all the information is correct)

Additionally, I am also empowered to refuse an ID if it does not seem valid. Examples of this include:
1) Card is broken/damaged
2) Suspicious scratch/cut marks near the year on date of birth/picture
3) Picture looks significantly different/seems off center/background does not seem proper
4) Other suspicious markings or issues

Now I am not familiar with the Oyster cards (as I am an American), but numerous people on this thread have stated that the cards are marked as "Not a valid form or ID" and are issued by a travel agency and not a government agency. In that case, I would refuse it as well. However, I have had my boss accept unusual combinations if ID, such as birth certificate (birth date and state seal, but no photo) and benefit card (photo and state seal, but no birthdate) because they also had the same name on them, indicating they were for the same person. Legally, if it turned out the person was not of age, he would likely get in trouble for it, but at least that person was trying. Personally, I would just stick to a legal ID.

I've got an Oyster card issued by the government, with a passport legal photo of me and my date of birth on it. I'm pretty sure that that's legal. However I just noticed that it's a 16 and under card, and the young chap in question is 17, so perhaps my point isn't as valid, yet it still stands.

 

[Dogstile]

Aside from that, the kid needs to grow some facial hair or something. ID'd for a 15? Seriously?

You say that but when I was 19 I was asked for ID when buying a 15+ DVD. The strange thing is that I was never ID'd going into a club, nor when buying alcohol.

Aye, I can admit, that sometimes happens. But you should still be ashamed sir!

 

[dragontiers]

But I'm over 15 and my Oyster has photo I.D. on it...

As someone who has worked retail before, I need to see at least three things on an ID in order to accept it:
1) Your photo (so I know it's you and you didn't swipe it from Mom/Dad/Big Brother)
2) Your birth-date (so I know you are of age)
3) Some form of government seal/logo/etc. (so I know all the information is valid as not everyone who issues ID's is as thorough about ensuring all the information is correct)

Additionally, I am also empowered to refuse an ID if it does not seem valid. Examples of this include:
1) Card is broken/damaged
2) Suspicious scratch/cut marks near the year on date of birth/picture
3) Picture looks significantly different/seems off center/background does not seem proper
4) Other suspicious markings or issues

Now I am not familiar with the Oyster cards (as I am an American), but numerous people on this thread have stated that the cards are marked as "Not a valid form or ID" and are issued by a travel agency and not a government agency. In that case, I would refuse it as well. However, I have had my boss accept unusual combinations if ID, such as birth certificate (birth date and state seal, but no photo) and benefit card (photo and state seal, but no birthdate) because they also had the same name on them, indicating they were for the same person. Legally, if it turned out the person was not of age, he would likely get in trouble for it, but at least that person was trying. Personally, I would just stick to a legal ID.

I've got an Oyster card issued by the government, with a passport legal photo of me and my date of birth on it. I'm pretty sure that that's legal. However I just noticed that it's a 16 and under card, and the young chap in question is 17, so perhaps my point isn't as valid, yet it still stands.

As I said, I am not personally familiar with an Oyster card. From the descriptions I've seen here, I thought it was just something similar to a subway card, with no government affiliations. However, a few people on here have stated that it does say on the card itself that it is not to be used as a form of ID. If it does actually say that anywhere on the card, I still (personally) would refuse it, although I can see someone else being lenient and allowing it. My issue is if it is somehow faked (and again, I've never personally encountered one, so I have no idea how hard it would be to fake one) and they say they are not to be used as ID, I would not be in a defensible position and would be subject to whatever fines/firing would come down the line. Again, I can see why someone else would, but I wouldn't want to risk it.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

But I'm over 15 and my Oyster has photo I.D. on it...

As someone who has worked retail before, I need to see at least three things on an ID in order to accept it:
1) Your photo (so I know it's you and you didn't swipe it from Mom/Dad/Big Brother)
2) Your birth-date (so I know you are of age)
3) Some form of government seal/logo/etc. (so I know all the information is valid as not everyone who issues ID's is as thorough about ensuring all the information is correct)

Additionally, I am also empowered to refuse an ID if it does not seem valid. Examples of this include:
1) Card is broken/damaged
2) Suspicious scratch/cut marks near the year on date of birth/picture
3) Picture looks significantly different/seems off center/background does not seem proper
4) Other suspicious markings or issues

Now I am not familiar with the Oyster cards (as I am an American), but numerous people on this thread have stated that the cards are marked as "Not a valid form or ID" and are issued by a travel agency and not a government agency. In that case, I would refuse it as well. However, I have had my boss accept unusual combinations if ID, such as birth certificate (birth date and state seal, but no photo) and benefit card (photo and state seal, but no birthdate) because they also had the same name on them, indicating they were for the same person. Legally, if it turned out the person was not of age, he would likely get in trouble for it, but at least that person was trying. Personally, I would just stick to a legal ID.

I've got an Oyster card issued by the government, with a passport legal photo of me and my date of birth on it. I'm pretty sure that that's legal. However I just noticed that it's a 16 and under card, and the young chap in question is 17, so perhaps my point isn't as valid, yet it still stands.

As I said, I am not personally familiar with an Oyster card. From the descriptions I've seen here, I thought it was just something similar to a subway card, with no government affiliations. However, a few people on here have stated that it does say on the card itself that it is not to be used as a form of ID. If it does actually say that anywhere on the card, I still (personally) would refuse it, although I can see someone else being lenient and allowing it. My issue is if it is somehow faked (and again, I've never personally encountered one, so I have no idea how hard it would be to fake one) and they say they are not to be used as ID, I would not be in a defensible position and would be subject to whatever fines/firing would come down the line. Again, I can see why someone else would, but I wouldn't want to risk it.

This is the best image I can find of one.

http://www.upgrade7.org.uk/img/pupils/oyster_zip_card.png

 

[vansau]

Slow news day?

You know, comments like that don't make you a lot of friends around here and are a guaranteed way to piss off the writing staff.

The woman is a major media figure in the UK, and she went from being publicly irate to publicly understanding why game retailers in the country enforce such strict age guidelines. I'd say that's worthy of some news coverage.

 

[OldAccount]

Slow news day?

You know, comments like that don't make you a lot of friends around here and are a guaranteed way to piss off the writing staff.

The woman is a major media figure in the UK, and she went from being publicly irate to publicly understanding why game retailers in the country enforce such strict age guidelines. I'd say that's worthy of some news coverage.

I honestly didn't intend any offence.

But I suppose it was a bit of unintentional trolling. Sorry about that.

 

[pillinjer]

The oyster card isnt part of the PASS scheme, which UK retailers use to tell what forms of ID are valid and what are not. Basically the law is that if your card is on the list it is valid, otherwise the retailer (more commonly the guy/girl selling you the game) can be fined £5000 for selling games to underaged people.

I think that Ian Shepherd (CEO of GAME) and the shop assistant at Game both did the right thing. It also is another example of the gaming retailers doing the right thing which we can now use in future conversations if needed (hopefully not).

 

[Musiclly enhanced]

right i went to GAME in london on a school trip and we where talking to this guy behind the counter because we where all 15 apart from one of us who was 16 but unless you look 21 or have ID then they wont sell it to you becuase of the harsh age ratings

 

[Anti-Robot Man]

First of all he should just buy the games online if he's having trouble, he'd save himself some money. Secondly this woman is an egotistical b***h who thinks the rules shouldn't apply to her or her family.

Granted it's an annoying situation for the kid, but if the poor bozo working for minimum wage in the shop gets caught selling a game, or other age-prohibited product, to someone below the required age the penalities are severe, both for the employee who can be fined thousands & lose his job, as well as the store manager who also faces a fine/reprimand. Once a cashier asks to see ID, they can only accept ID - there is no alternative for them, you can argue with them but no matter how logical your points are, or how much they sympathise with you, they have to refuse you. Also remember shops would love to sell everything and anything to everyone who comes in, it's society that tells them can't and punishes them for doing otherwise.

 

[Daveman]

I don't see the problem TBH. Unless I'm mistaken, Oyster cards aren't photo-ID, so I can see why a store wouldn't accept it where a photo-ID would normally be accepted.

I had my Railcard once, which has a photo AND requires government ID to get in the first place. Still got refused. The guy was like "yeah, I know, it's just what I have to do."

I came back the next day with my passport and laughed when the guy at the checkout pulled out a calculator to work out how old I was.

TBH I think it just goes to show how stupid the whole "kids playing mature games" debate is. Frankly it is ALWAYS the parent who buys the 8 year old a copy of GTA and the entire thing is a non-issue. The real issue is shitty parenting, nothing to do with games companies.

Also, Mary Portas is clearly fucking nuts to try to speak to the CEO of Game just because her kid couldn't buy a game.

 

[mirasiel]

Ugh, look at that another know-it-all parent who doesn't have a fucking clue what they are talking about.

Possibly forgivable except for the fact she is supposed to be a retail sales guru who makes a big deal about her insider knowledge and ability to give advice to consumers...but apparently is totally unfamiliar with the law for a major retail sector and whines on twitter about instead of checking first.

Also, new low tonight, scum mother renting her lovely darling children (age 10 and 11) THE FUCKING SERBIAN FILM to watch whilst she goes out to suck some dick play some bingo, got cut off during the 'do you even realise how horrible this film is to watch, for adults? for guys I know saw mates get blown apart in Ireland? For coppers who specialise in child abuse cases?' speech.


Im Mirasiel and Im bitter and spiteful son-of-a-*****.