UK Police Seize Suspected 3D Printed Firearm Parts In Raid

[UNHchabo]

Or is your point simply that some people break laws? In which case, one could just as easily say "Welp, laws against murder aren't doing anything to stem the tide of murders, might as well legalize murder". I'd strongly recommend against that line of thought, because frankly, that's just dumb.

Some laws, like the ones against murder, are in place because we have a specific behavior we find immoral, and we wish to outlaw that. The laws are a means to their own end.

Other laws, like stopping at a red light, are there for a secondary reason; we think that putting stop lights on certain intersections will save lives, or help traffic flow smoothly. A law outright banning right-on-red accomplishes neither of those goals, so such a law should be removed.

Most people who support gun control do so because they feel that it will save lives by reducing the homicide rate. If gun control does not accomplish this aim, then there's no good reason for the law to be in place. So far, the statistics show this to be the case; in the US guns are used many times more often for defense than for crime, and there is no evidence showing a reduction in homicide rate with laws that restrict ownership or use of firearms.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Granted, as long as agencies are proactive in law enforcement instead of just saying "these weapons are now illegal, now don't have one. we are just going to turn our backs to you now" will decrease crime considerably. However, even in places where firearms restrictions are so, well, strict crimes that would of been committed with a firearm are shifted to other weapons.

For example in China where a man wielding a butcher knife, which you can buy in any half decent supermarket or store, killed several children in school.

Akin to the Sandy Hook Shooting, he only killed I believe seven to eleven children instead of the twenty-eight or thirty that the Sandy Hook shooter killed, but it remains that if he had a firearm, he would of used one. He didn't, so he used the next best thing.

Certainly, but the next best thing isn't nearly as good. A successful stabbing spree is rather unusual.

But using the guy as an example who killed the two police officers in the UK, he wasn't following the law. He didn't care about laws, legalities of firearms, or explosives for that matter [which by the way, was it an actual fragmentation grenade? that's beyond crazy. Here in the US we have people that will use pipebombs or such other homemade devices, but not a fricking M67, or the UK equivalent]. He set out to do one thing, and circumvented laws regarding firearm purchases and restrictions.

Certainly, the laws can never stop this from happening altogether. They can reduce the incidence dramatically.

Saying [not you, but a majority of gun control advocates in the US] that I shouldn't be allowed to defend myself with my rifle because:

A: it holds more than 10 rounds in a magazine

B: has a pistol grip [which makes it more deadly than the exact same rifle with a traditional rifle grip]

C: can fold up [but not be fired] into a size less than 16 inches

Don't forget the very dangerous bayonet attachment. You'll also note the US states with very different gun laws, but very open borders. It's one or the other.

(Having said that, in Australia, gun laws are a state thing, but the Federal government got them to introduce much the same laws across the board, though they've drifted a little. There are some noticeable differences, but that don't affect many gun users)

Hopefully the Australian police will crack down on this as soon as this stuff comes into Australia.

I'm not too worried about that, actually, the Australian police are very good at cracking down on that sort of thing.

 

[psijac]

Gun control advocates don't want gun control they want people control. mainly the control to stop people from murdering other people. Which is not a bad thing to want from the big picture sense.

But you don't get to control people, at least not every person all the time, there will always be outliers. Even if you could would you really be so narcissistic as to want to? "Let me protect you from you" is a terrible argument. Not in the sense that it is a bad ideal but it doesn't really work and people will eventually reject it.

Non-gun example, Muslim women have to wear burkas so men don't become so filled with lust and rape them. And yet those women still get raped by men.

Long story short, gun laws are bullshit, UK is overall still a pretty nice place

 

[EightGaugeHippo]

Here is what all guns control discussions boil down to.

-Laws only effect law abiding citizens.
-Criminals can get guns.
-'murica

At the end of the day, Gun control doesn't save lives, it prevents the people who would take those lives from having easy access to guns.

If the guy in the article could have gone and just bought a gun, he wouldn't have been caught with components and a gunpowder recipe. He would have been caught with a real gun, which could have been used during the raid and injured or killed police officers or even himself.

That's my two cents.
And not that I need to tell you guys, but feel free to rip apart my post and deconstruct my argument in that way that only you do Escapist <3

 

[Amir Kondori]

The pictured part is clearly a part of the 3d printer. I don't think these guys realized that.

 

[Amir Kondori]

Gun control advocates don't want gun control they want people control. mainly the control to stop people from murdering other people. Which is not a bad thing to want from the big picture sense.

But you don't get to control people, at least not every person all the time, there will always be outliers. Even if you could would you really be so narcissistic as to want to? "Let me protect you from you" is a terrible argument. Not in the sense that it is a bad ideal but it doesn't really work and people will eventually reject it.

Non-gun example, Muslim women have to wear burkas so men don't become so filled with lust and rape them. And yet those women still get raped by men.

Long story short, gun laws are bullshit, UK is overall still a pretty nice place

Well a magnet's north pole cannot attract a magnet's north pole, so obviously we must have more gun laws.

/just kidding, 2nd amendment supporter over here

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

I highly doubt that who ever was shot 30 times was shot with a 3D printed gun. Being made of plastic means they can only barely stand being fired a few times, let alone 30 in rapid succession. Also, Grenades are completely impossible to replicate.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

I think everyone, including the police officers, here is overlooking something rather basic.

You can't make any sort of half-way lasting gun out of any kind of plastic. No plastic can stand up to the force and heat of a bullet exploding in a barrel the way steel can. That's why you need to use hard metal which, needless to say, is literally hundreds of times better suited to the task of a ballistic weapons material.

Best you could probably do is make a plastic gun good for perhaps 20 rounds. Maybe.

 

[Lunar Templar]

It's just proof that gun laws don't stop people from getting guns no matter how strict they are.

They can make it hard enough that many won't, though.

quick question.

since when do the average criminal or organized crime give a fuck about the laws in place regarding weapons?

 

[Lunar Templar]

It's just proof that gun laws don't stop people from getting guns no matter how strict they are.

They can make it hard enough that many won't, though.

quick question.

since when do the average criminal or organized crime give a fuck about the laws in place regarding weapons?

Most murders aren't commited by criminals, but by random dipshits having a bad day with a gun on hand. As a great man (i forget who) once said, every one of us is one bad decision away from being a convict

reminds me of the 'bad day' speech the Joker gave Batman, I think it was in Injustice ....

anyway, true as that is, does change anything about what i said now does it?

 

[IceForce]

quick question.

since when do the average criminal or organized crime give a fuck about the laws in place regarding weapons?

Since when do average citizens give a fuck about laws in place regarding shoplifting?

See this is the thing, if you're going to argue that "there's no point in having stricter gun laws because everyone's going to ignore them", then you might as well argue that there's no point in having ANY laws at all.

That same argument could apply to ANY laws. And yet, guess what? we still have those laws anyway.

 

[Commissar Sae]

It's just proof that gun laws don't stop people from getting guns no matter how strict they are.

Yeah, but if all they have access to is a 3D printed gun, they can't exactly go on a spree shooting now can they. The thing is a glorified zip gun. I can make a better gun out of a length of pipe, a nail and a piece of wood.

The whole gun control argument just doesn't work in the US because of the climate of fear and the high crime rate. Up here in Canada, guns are fairly easy to acquire but barely anyone bothers except hunters or collectors since the threat of armed robbery or home invasion is practically non-existent. I own a rifle, but it is purely for recreational shooting and is kept locked away.

 

[Lunar Templar]

snip

snip

And I need to stop both of you right there.

got your attention? Good.

I. Don't. Care. Enough. About. Gun. Control. Laws. To. Want. To. Debate. It.

We can remove or ban them out right here and I would not care ether way, and here, being my home country and where I live, USA.

 

[Alexander Competitor]

guys, it was just printer parts. Really. Also, I happen to be in with a group that develops these things, and the liberator is not the be all and end all. We are working on easy ways to manufacture metal barrels and bolts and we are working on and have made printable parts for semi-auto's. (magazines, trigger parts, receivers) but yeah, look up the luty submachine gun, expedient homemade machine-guns are nothing new. 3d printing just makes it a little easier and produces prettier results, but only if you have the skills to use a 3d printer to print quality parts. using a $1000 consumer grade printer to print good abs parts is harder than you would think, you need a lot of calibrations e.t.c. there is a hobby community who have made it easier but you will still need to work on your settings if you want to produce nice parts.

 

[Daveman]

It's just proof that gun laws don't stop people from getting guns no matter how strict they are.

Nobody argues that. Why does this kind of logic apply to guns only? Murder laws don't stop murders, so by that argument murder should just be legal.

Worst argument ever.

 

[Thaluikhain]

quick question.

since when do the average criminal or organized crime give a fuck about the laws in place regarding weapons?

Since an effective law enforcement system forced them to.

It's a lot harder to get hold of an illegal weapon if the state is actively trying to prevent you from doing it. It's a lot riskier if the state actively punishes people who do.

For example, the razor gangs of Australia's early 20th century came into existence because razors weren't restricted, whereas firearms were. Later, people moved onto to screwdrivers in places where carrying knives was restricted.

You're average criminal isn't going to run round committing crimes for the hell of it, just because they have committed some.

 

[UNHchabo]

I always thought it was rather stupid to compare gun homicide rates between UK and the US, when UK has a gun ban, but not to compare total homicides which is what really matters.

Those sources are quite interesting, I saved them. Thanks for posting it.

Small correction: I meant to say that our reported rate is 4 times higher, which would be 300% higher, not 400%.

 

[Lunar Templar]

snip

I was gonna come up with something for this, I was at work when I checked messages so I had time to think something up, but all I ended up coming up with was something for the Kill la Kill thread, and how I just don't care about Gun Control that much, although these 'texting and driving' ads on the site can go fuck them selves -.-, anyway, after some pondering I figured the reason I don't care is 1) people die all the time every day, gun or not. 2) removing guns as an issue will not really do much of anything, sure, less shooting deaths but people will just use something else to get their murder on. like maybe more IEDs for one, not like its hard to make a stable explosive device if the news is to believed even a little. 3)Till some one does something meaning full about the black market, the people who really want guns are gonna get em anyway.

pretty sure when I posted though I was up for a good ole debate, but eh ... not so much now. I'm still good for a sarcasm if that's needed here though. It's one of my finer talents after all.

It's just proof that gun laws don't stop people from getting guns no matter how strict they are.

The UK has has 0.4 gun homicides per 100000 and the US has 3.6. The fact that the UK has 900% lower number of gun homicides is clearly to do with the fact the guns are very tightly controlled.

Oh, you went there...

*sits back with popcorn and waits for Americans to reply*

They really don't take well to the suggestion that less people owning guns means less people using guns.

*swipes a hand full* whats really funny is the fact they can't read, this happened in the UK, not the US hell this 3D printer crap would never catch on state side, not when I can go to wall mart and buy hunting rifle and a shot gun, why the hell would I print and built it my self? But country's like the UK where you can't get a gun near as easily?

well, you guys have fun with that.

 

[Weaver]

I'd never heard of operation challenger (not being in the UK likely).
It's good to know the police only bother to clamp down on organized crime when it's for revenge and not to actually protect the citizens or anything like that.