UK Schools to report parents to the police if they allow their children to play 18 rated games.

[FoxKitsune]

I think it's a little too far, BUT as a man working in the early years sector, I'm telling you: There's nothing so chilling as hearing a 3 year old casually make references to things they've seen in Grand Theft Auto, and no I'm not kidding. This is going too far- lord knows I was playing Vice City in school, so I'll be a hypocrite when I wind up keeping it from my children- but seriously. Hearing three year olds making those comments, using those words and saying things that even older teenagers might find to be overstepping the line makes you look at this in a totally different light.

Yeah three is a bit young to be exposed to that sort of thing in some respects. But if you think about it the violence level is a bit cartoonish in most video games. I mean I was playing Doom and other violent video games when I was 7.

I can't agree more. I think the difference between a game like Doom (and I know this is my opinion, doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things) and a game like Grand Theft Auto is the relative realism, and that Doom stopped at shooting things. With Grand Theft Auto you're exposing children to drugs, prostitution, and in some sections of that game even worse things, like torture or terrorism (my opinion again, a certain mission left a bad taste in my mouth)

At this point I should say that I loved GTAV. Great game in the series; I like that some missions leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's a game about people who are, at their core, evil. I wouldn't expect to come away from a horror movie without being scared or a comedy without laughing. This is no different, and I do think the UK education system has got a lot to answer for beyond this current issue.

This ruling isn't a realistic one. What's going to end up happening is that it'll be flavor of the month for the honeymoon period, then as soon as the school realizes how hard to enforce this will be the rule will only be dusted off by young new idealists fresh out of training, just long enough to learn the same lesson. What it comes down to is that most parents of people playing 18 rated games either don't know or don't card, and while I personally have a problem with that attitude I repeat: I played GTA:VC and countless bloody shooters when I was in a school, and I've never killed anyone. Unfortunately, Seeing and hearing the things I have in Early years makes a small part of me want to cheer this, if only because it's taking a sledgehammer to an ant that desperately needed dealing with.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Snip

It's never a good idea to swat an ant with a sledgehammer, or a mosquito with a shotgun. All you end up with is a worse mess than you started with to be perfectly honest.

As far as these things go one of my cousins was playing GTA: VC at age 7 so that's not a huge thing to me. Nor is any fairly young kid playing most any video game. Because as far as realism goes no video game is really much more "realistic" compared to Doom. Sure we look back on it now and think it's silly, but back in the day they modded it to be a military simulator. So the point is kinda moot.

When it comes to toddlers, they shouldn't be exposed to this sort of thing I agree. But most kids start learning young to differentiate between fantasy and reality. Games can help with that. Besides if they don't see these things in games they'll see them in TV, Movies, and potentially in real life. So to my mind there is no justification for this useless endeavour.

Edit: Toddlers talking about their exploits M/18+ rated games might be indicative of actual serious neglect on their parents part. If you're reporting anyone to any child services that's a good place to start really.

 

[FoxKitsune]

Snip

It's never a good idea to swat an ant with a sledgehammer, or a mosquito with a shotgun. All you end up with is a worse mess than you started with to be perfectly honest.

As far as these things go one of my cousins was playing GTA: VC at age 7 so that's not a huge thing to me. Nor is any fairly young kid playing most any video game. Because as far as realism goes no video game is really much more "realistic" compared to Doom. Sure we look back on it now and think it's silly, but back in the day they modded it to be a military simulator. So the point is kinda moot.

When it comes to toddlers, they shouldn't be exposed to this sort of thing I agree. But most kids start learning young to differentiate between fantasy and reality. Games can help with that. Besides if they don't see these things in games they'll see them in TV, Movies, and potentially in real life. So to my mind there is no justification for this useless endeavour.

I don't like that little gleeful voice in the back of my head over this, but it's still there. All that said, I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. I mean, hell, when we say realism there's a lot of focus on graphics, and once upon a time Final Fantasy 7 and its pixel people were cutting edge. No, games are fueled by imagination and context more than how it looks. I still maintain that the design and content of GTAV makes it more difficult to just let go here than, say, Doom, but I don't in all honesty like this ruling. I think it sets a dangerous precedent , puts teachers in a terrible position to be in (in a job that's already dangerous to be in these days anyway) and won't accomplish anything.

Unfortunately, I have seen three year olds swearing and telling their friends about prostitutes and killing police in a past nursery setting and unfortunately, it means I can't just dismiss this as crazy anymore no matter how much I might want to.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I don't like that little gleeful voice in the back of my head over this, but it's still there. All that said, I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. I mean, hell, when we say realism there's a lot of focus on graphics, and once upon a time Final Fantasy 7 and its pixel people were cutting edge. No, games are fueled by imagination and context more than how it looks. I still maintain that the design and content of GTAV makes it more difficult to just let go here than, say, Doom, but I don't in all honesty like this ruling. I think it sets a dangerous precedent , puts teachers in a terrible position to be in (in a job that's already dangerous to be in these days anyway) and won't accomplish anything.

Unfortunately, I have seen three year olds swearing and telling their friends about prostitutes and killing police in a past nursery setting and unfortunately, it means I can't just dismiss this as crazy anymore no matter how much I might want to.

Well that is where the parents are supposed to come in. To tell their children not to swear and impose punishment when they cross the line put down. It's also their responsibility to keep their kids from content that's so outrageously past their age range.

But there's a difference between a kid who is being given the proper boundaries and one who is allowed to play violent games. I watched a neighbour?s 9 year old for a while, way back, and he brought over his laptop and played Fallout: New Vegas the whole time. So I booted up my copy and awed him with my mod list. Then we played and kept one upping each other on trick shots. He is a rather well adjusted kid because though he gets access to adult games, his parents keep him in line.

 

[Maze1125]

I am not surprised, schools in the UK are Socialist wet dreams, unionised, inefficient, unaccountable sinecures populated by people who get 13 weeks a year off, extra days off for "training", a gold plated pension, effective tenure and guaranteed payrises and yet always moan they aren't getting enough and threatening another strike.

The average teacher works more hours over the year than almost any other profession. The existence of the holidays is not enough to offset the 11-12 hour days during term-time especially as many teachers are forced to use the breaks to catch up on paperwork.

Yes, I've heard this excuse, I do know quite a few teachers; I have no doubt there are some very hard working teachers but as a general rule, in my experience, this simply isn't true. It is however an idea very enthusiastically peddled by the Unions and their supporting left wing media for obvious reasons.

Ah yes, anecdotal evidence...

The trump card!

What is the exact number of teachers that you know who's lives you have studied in such detail that you can get a clear average of their working hours each day?

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I was merely responding to your entirely unsupported assertion with my own experience. I was careful to state it was "in my experience", perhaps I should have been clearer. I happen to know exactly 10 teachers, 4 of them extremely well, the others as acquaintances, as I very nearly was one before choosing another career.

It is extremely interesting offsetting their various stories with the stories reported by the various hues of media on the matter. There certainly doesn't seem to be the uniform competence and hard work that is often trumpeted in the more supportive media, although, I guess, nor is it quite the unalloyed gravy train that the less supportive media suggests.

It is undoubtedly true that very, very few teachers are ever sacked, I struggle to find current figures (as they are very well hidden for obvious reasons) but in 2010, 18 had been sacked in the last 40 years: http://www.bbc.com/news/10464617
- I remember watching this Panorama and being surprised because the BBC is normally very support of unionised labour being a unionised, tax funded body itself.

It is also worth noting that while enforced union membership is illegal in the UK the only way to secure the required insurance to teach in the State system is through the Union; so it is effectively still a 70s style "closed shop".

On balance, given the very beneficial terms of their employment, which are aggressively protected by a body task with simply doing that, I find it very hard to believe that most teachers work 11 to 12 hour days on a regular basis.

Yeah that's even worse than it is here in the US, but things are largely the same. This is why I support the idea of private schools(ones not run by the states) in the US and charter schools. Better results and little if no unionization. The teachers work harder, the students learn more, and both do better. If anything the competition to get into charter schools, and the results are proof that the non union system works better.

 

[Maze1125]

*snip*

The terms of teacher's employment is hardly positive. The few things you refer to are the only benefits amongst a huge range of negatives.

Regardless, this is unlikely to go anywhere. So let's discuss a different topic:
How long do you think a teacher should spend preparing an hour long lesson so that the children under their care can get the full benefit and learn the most?

 

[idskusters]

Well I guess this is kinda appropriate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F43DqnMoWi0

 

[TallanKhan]

Ok, it is not illegal in the UK for a parent to allow their child to play a game rated for older children. It is illegal for a store to sell games rated 12, 16 or 18 to anyone below this age or for someone other than a child's legal guardian to supply it to them (other family etc becomes a grey area which to date has never been challenged in court).

However, a child's parents are required by law to ensure that a child is safeguarded from psychological harm. So a particularly zealous social worker could make one hell of a stink over it, although to actually have the parents prosecuted or the child taken away, they would need to evidence that the child had been negatively affected by the experience, which would be highly unlikely.

 

[chuckman1]

People always so Europe is so great.
Then I hear things like this, at least we have our freedom!
USA!

Anyway that is pretty dumb, what's next arrest parents of kids who watch family guy?

 

[Maze1125]

People always so Europe is so great.
Then I hear things like this, at least we have our freedom!
USA!

Anyway that is pretty dumb, what's next arrest parents of kids who watch family guy?

In America people have had their children taken away just because someone bribed the protective services, and then the lawyers that fought for the parents who had unjustly had their children removed had their children taken from them.

If that's freedom, then I prefer this.

Edit: Sorry, just fact checked this, and in fact CPS wasn't doing it for bribes, but because they get a bonus from the government is they exceed their quota of children put into foster care. So that's better as it's all perfectly legal...

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

People always so Europe is so great.
Then I hear things like this, at least we have our freedom!
USA!

Anyway that is pretty dumb, what's next arrest parents of kids who watch family guy?

In America people have had their children taken away just because someone bribed the protective services, and then the lawyers that fought for the parents who had unjustly had their children removed had their children taken from them.

If that's freedom, then I prefer this.

Edit: Sorry, just fact checked this, and in fact CPS wasn't doing it for bribes, but because they get a bonus from the government is they exceed their quota of children put into foster care. So that's better as it's all perfectly legal...

Yeah CPS is a fucking scummy operation. Still I'd rather have to fight that than obvious suppression of my first amendment rights(censorship).

 

[Maze1125]

People always so Europe is so great.
Then I hear things like this, at least we have our freedom!
USA!

Anyway that is pretty dumb, what's next arrest parents of kids who watch family guy?

In America people have had their children taken away just because someone bribed the protective services, and then the lawyers that fought for the parents who had unjustly had their children removed had their children taken from them.

If that's freedom, then I prefer this.

Edit: Sorry, just fact checked this, and in fact CPS wasn't doing it for bribes, but because they get a bonus from the government is they exceed their quota of children put into foster care. So that's better as it's all perfectly legal...

Yeah CPS is a fucking scummy operation. Still I'd rather have to fight that than obvious suppression of my first amendment rights(censorship).

a) That's outright despicable. Children are far far far more important than the right to watch gory horror movies.
b) Parents in the UK are still allowed to show their children 18 rated films if they want. Nothing has been censored. Yes, the parents in this one particular area are at risk of being reported, but simply being reported doesn't mean you've done anything illegal or that you'll have your children taken away. At worst it would become a minor piece of evidence in a much larger neglect case.