Ukraine

[Agema]

Doesn't really matter which of the two it is. The USA has no right to such deal after turning traitor.

Unless Trump was actually going to defend Ukraine all along, he just wanted to a) force it to cough up as much as possible and b) get Europe to do as much of the commitment of military force as possible, and this was his immensely destabilising and alienating way of doing it.

 

[aelreth]

Putin controls most of those resources right now, he is bound by Russian law to never give those up in any negotiation. The Russian military is gearing up to seize everything on the east side of the river. If a deal isn't accepted now, the sole person POTUS will be negotiating with will be the Russian President on the matter of the rare earth minerals. The west is going to be facing their own century of humiliation and the United States is attempting to extricate themselves of it.

 

[Silvanus]

The Russian military is gearing up to seize everything on the east side of the river.

They've been gearing up for that for a while now, eh?

 

[Agema]

Putin controls most of those resources right now, he is bound by Russian law to never give those up in any negotiation.

I think it's terribly sweet you pretend that Russia has rule of law. Russian law is whatever Putin says it is.

If Putin needs the Duma to pass a law for the sake of appearances, he'll order the Duma to pass it. If for some incredible reason the Duma refused, it's members would all start falling off tall buildings until the remainder complied.

 

[aelreth]

They've been gearing up for that for a while now, eh?

They are getting stronger, far stronger than 2022. Night and day difference.

I think it's terribly sweet you pretend that Russia has rule of law. Russian law is whatever Putin says it is.

If Putin needs the Duma to pass a law for the sake of appearances, he'll order the Duma to pass it. If for some incredible reason the Duma refused, it's members would all start falling off tall buildings until the remainder complied.

I disagree.

 

[Bedinsis]

I have not found the details on this, I don't know if the information I want is publicly available at all, but there's a difference between "we own half the minerals", and "we are entitled to buy half the minerals from you on favorable terms", and my suspicion is the offer was the latter.

UNITED24 Media (@united24media.com)

🔴 Trump’s proposed deal imposes harsher economic terms on Ukraine than those faced by defeated aggressor states like Germany and Japan after 1945, The Telegraph reports. 1/3

bsky.app

The Telegraph article is behind a paywall, so I have not read it. Dunno if this was what you asked for.

 

[Agema]

I disagree.

You can disagree all you like, but you're wrong.

Russia is a dictatorship. The Duma is permitted to exist to give Russians, and credulous fools abroad, the illusion of democracy and help reinforce the idea that Putin represents the will of the people. (In a sense he sort of might truly represent the will of the people, if only because he's destroyed independent media and propagandised enough of them into compliance.)

That's what pretty much every dictator does: leave a parliament around to pretend there's still some independent power and popular representation, or just to provide a pool of people to act as government ministers. It's not even a new idea: even all the way back in the Roman Empire, once the Republic was dissolved the emperors left the Senate as a facade that Roman governance was anything other than the emperor's brute force.

At best, like many dictators Putin has to maintain sufficient favour, otherwise someone might push him off a tall building. Thus the Duma could in theory oppose Putin, if Putin's control of the country slipped far enough. There's no sign that Russia is close to that point.

They are getting stronger, far stronger than 2022. Night and day difference.

Well, this is true. Currently, with a huge numerical advantage, Russia is taking massive casualties to grind the frontline forward a kilometre or two a month. In 2022, with a huge numerical advantage, it was taking massive casualties and losing swathes of territory. In three years, it has improved to the point it can grind down a vastly weaker opponent through attrition.

 

[aelreth]

You can disagree all you like, but you're wrong.

Russia is a dictatorship. The Duma is permitted to exist to give Russians, and credulous fools abroad, the illusion of democracy and help reinforce the idea that Putin represents the will of the people. (In a sense he sort of might truly represent the will of the people, if only because he's destroyed independent media and propagandised enough of them into compliance.)

That's what pretty much every dictator does: leave a parliament around to pretend there's still some independent power and popular representation, or just to provide a pool of people to act as government ministers. It's not even a new idea: even all the way back in the Roman Empire, once the Republic was dissolved the emperors left the Senate as a facade that Roman governance was anything other than the emperor's brute force.

At best, like many dictators Putin has to maintain sufficient favour, otherwise someone might push him off a tall building. Thus the Duma could in theory oppose Putin, if Putin's control of the country slipped far enough. There's no sign that Russia is close to that point.



Well, this is true. Currently, with a huge numerical advantage, Russia is taking massive casualties to grind the frontline forward a kilometre or two a month. In 2022, with a huge numerical advantage, it was taking massive casualties and losing swathes of territory. In three years, it has improved to the point it can grind down a vastly weaker opponent through attrition.

That is still a conclusion based on propaganda. You should recognize that Putin is less belligerent than his deputy and more importantly the Russian people. He has the mandate.

I'm sure if you are reading western propaganda you imagine massive casualties, which is unsurprising. 2022? The Russians invaded with 140k troops, research yourself how many troops Ukraine called up. There was no numerical advantage in Russia's favor for over a year. They left poor positioning In Kharkiv and Kherson proper rather than suffering a defeat in detail. The best way to analyze casualties is by obituaries submitted throughout russia. This is being tracked. Look into Mediazona BBC.

Nor is the front moving a "kilometer a month" it's settlements by the week.

 

[Hades]

That is still a conclusion based on propaganda. You should recognize that Putin is less belligerent than his deputy and more importantly the Russian people. He has the mandate.

Hardly a point in Russia's favor if Putin's the less belligerent one. Though as far as Medvedev, while its possible he's insane, its also possible he's only more belligerent as a theater act to make Putin seem ''good'' in comparison. Saying all the things the Kremlin wants to have known without soiling ''official'' positions.

And while I suppose its a bit of a faux pass to blame people who are continuously victimized by their rulers, I do think there's a chance Putin really does have a mandate for his internal and external crimes. It may be a faux pass to draw attention to it, but it might say something about the Russians that they continuously end up with backwards, oppressive and expansionist rulers. Its a very consistent pattern. Doesn't seem to matter whether it was the Tsars, the Soviets or the robber barons of today. Their behavior towards their citizens and their neighbors has always been the same. This is the third consecutive Russian regime that treats its own population like trash while violently expanding into Europe.

There's a long running theory of the ''tartar yoke'' which says Russia is so backward and violent due to having been ruled by the Mongols for so long, and picked up traits from their masters. I've never liked the theory and find it more then a little racist. Russia doesn't need outside help to be terrible, and plenty of nations have been conquered by the Mongols without it turning them into a perpetual hellhole.

 

[tstorm823]

UNITED24 Media (@united24media.com)

🔴 Trump’s proposed deal imposes harsher economic terms on Ukraine than those faced by defeated aggressor states like Germany and Japan after 1945, The Telegraph reports. 1/3

bsky.app

The Telegraph article is behind a paywall, so I have not read it. Dunno if this was what you asked for.

Much, much closer at least. Thank you.

The article behind that paywall was written by people with a copy of the draft, and they allow some direct quotes from it through, though fall short of sharing the full contents (unless I'm missing something. Their summary has seemingly a bit of a contradiction, saying at one point that the demand is $500bn in value and then another saying it's in perpetuity, but if I try to guess what it actually says:

- 50% of revenue from the extraction and monetization of mineral resources goes to the US until the total hits $500bn.
- The US gets first dibs at the purchase of those resources indefinitely.

And in return, Ukraine gets the implication that the US would defend its revenue stream more directly.

It'll be interesting to see if they reject it wholesale or present a counter offer of their own, as the concept of offering mineral rights in return for defense from Russia purportedly came from Zelensky's administration.

 

[aelreth]

Hardly a point in Russia's favor if Putin's the less belligerent one. Though as far as Medvedev, while its possible he's insane, its also possible he's only more belligerent as a theater act to make Putin seem ''good'' in comparison. Saying all the things the Kremlin wants to have known without soiling ''official'' positions.

I thought that too until I was learned who was running Russia back in 2008. I do agree he is the sounding board for what I've learned is the Security Council.

If the poling is true, the Russian people want Putin to harden his heart.

 

[Seanchaidh]

We'll see if he's sincere or what he means in detail (the statement is quite vague), but a NATO Secretary General said something good for once.

Russia is a dictatorship. The Duma is permitted to exist to give Russians, and credulous fools abroad, the illusion of democracy and help reinforce the idea that Putin represents the will of the people. (In a sense he sort of might truly represent the will of the people, if only because he's destroyed independent media and propagandised enough of them into compliance.)

Ah, like our Congress and corporate media. And like your Parliament and corporate/state media.

 

[Silvanus]

The best way to analyze casualties is by obituaries submitted throughout russia. This is being tracked. Look into Mediazona BBC.

Obituaries submitted in Russia...! Give me a break.

Ah, like our Congress and corporate media. And like your Parliament and corporate/state media.

Sort of, but with an overwhelmingly tighter grip.

 

[Hades]

We'll see if he's sincere or what he means in detail (the statement is quite vague), but a NATO Secretary General said something good for once.

I hold Rutte in decently high regard but uh....you shouldn't expect much sincerity from him. Before you know it he'll say he's got ''no active memory'' of ever having said this.

Abandoning Ukraine to the Russians by withholding protection isn't ''something good'' though and I'm not sure Rutte is sincere in this at all since he's always been among the more pro Ukraine leaders. Not to mention Russia having butchered about 200+ Dutchmen, and Rutte thus having no reason to do Putin any favor. He's likely trying to avoid stepping on the toes of the traitor in the white house.

 

[Agema]

That is still a conclusion based on propaganda. You should recognize that Putin is less belligerent than his deputy and more importantly the Russian people. He has the mandate.

Russia had a two-term consecutive limit on presidents, so Putin served two terms, handed over to his pet poodle Medvedev for one term whilst he took the office prime minister that allowed him to keep a close grip on power. Then Putin reassumed the presidency, and facing another block after two consecutive terms, changed the constitution in a way that gave him more terms. Due to this wheeze Putin is now in his third consecutive term of office, for five total, and if I remember rightly can have another after this. Should he ever retire, the Russian Constitution was also altered to give ex-presidents total immunity (unless impeached).

All of the above requires no propaganda: it's plain fact even by official Russian record.

So, he's a dictator: that's what exploiting loopholes and changing the law to ensure he keeps power is all about; preventing accountability is again a hallmark of dictatorship. It's just people like you refusing to see what's staring you in the face.

 

[bluegate]

We'll see if he's sincere or what he means in detail (the statement is quite vague), but a NATO Secretary General said something good for once.

Sad thing being that there is no such thing as lasting peace with current day Russia as they'll gladly invade and murder their neighbors if they feel like it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

And while I suppose its a bit of a faux pass to blame people who are continuously victimized by their rulers, I do think there's a chance Putin really does have a mandate for his internal and external crimes. It may be a faux pass to draw attention to it, but it might say something about the Russians that they continuously end up with backwards, oppressive and expansionist rulers. Its a very consistent pattern. Doesn't seem to matter whether it was the Tsars, the Soviets or the robber barons of today. Their behavior towards their citizens and their neighbors has always been the same. This is the third consecutive Russian regime that treats its own population like trash while violently expanding into Europe.

For hundreds of years, that was the case for more or less everyone, though, and yet many nations managed to get better. Somewhat, and slowly, but still.

 

[Silvanus]

Russia and the US are at this minute meeting in Riyadh, negotiating the fate of Ukraine without any input from Ukraine. Recall Germany and the USSR carving Poland up between them (or Russia/Prussia/Austria before them).

The Russian team has said they'll talk to Ukraine "if necessary" but questioned the Zelenskyy government's legitimacy. Reminder than Putin's own government has rigged every election since 2000 and recently murdered his electoral opponent in a slave labour camp.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Reminder than Putin's own government has rigged every election since 2000 and recently murdered his electoral opponent in a slave labour camp.

To Republicans, that's "a sign of a strong leader".

 

[Agema]

To Republicans, that's "a sign of a strong leader".

It's amazing how much people can love a strong leader... often until they actually get one.

For instance, it's great to believe your nation has a mighty and valiant army that can conquer the enemy. Up until you get conscripted, and/or the body bags with the remnants of your friends and relatives come back.

I guess in sometimes most people will be genuinely happy with their strong leader, even if only because the strong leader has stopped them accessing information they'd need to make a better informed decision.