Undertale May Be This Year's Best Written Game

[deserteagleeye]

Undertale is hands-down GOTY for me. It's been a long time since a game made me feel giddy like a kid again and that Neutral final boss battle man...my eyes were the size of dinner plates.

 

[Gul]

Seriously, am I the only one who finds this game kinda hypocritical?

Literally everything is trying to kill you, but you're a terrible person for killing in self defense.

In the genocide run

Spoiler

You lock yourself out of the good ending permanently, but yet the game calls everyone who watches it on youtube a bunch of cowards

There's a vast difference between killing in self-defense and going on an outright genocide run. The game doesn't particularly condemn you for the former, aside from a character or two, certainly not constantly rubbing in how terrible person you are.

But if you go on a genocide run, then yes, you are pretty terrible.

Anyway, one of the game's messages is that if you can solve problems peacefully, then you probably should. You can be justified to kill someone in self-defense, but you know, it's really probably not the best thing you could do - and also keep in mind that even if you do defend yourself and beat enemies up rather than trying to befriend them, you can still spare them when they're sufficiently wounded. If you insist on dealing the final blow even when it's entirely unnecessary, then you can probably expect someone to call you out on it.

Also,

Spoiler

The game does not call you a bunch of cowards if you watch a genocide run on a video - a single character does. And that's not, by a long shot, the single most trustworthy character of them all either.

 

[Thanatos2k]

I mean it's not just best written game of the year, it's straight up game of the year. Every boss is a pure joy to fight, and the game has some seriously subtle meta humor. It's also absolutely masterful at building expectations and then subverting them.

Oh, and the best game soundtrack since Nier.

Come to think of it, Nier was another game that subverted its genre by integrating elements of bullet hell shooters. Interesting....

Eh...while I would say it's pretty good, it's such a slog to play through if you don't like bullet hells. It falls into the same trap alot of story heavy games do that aren't puzzles or P&Cs, in that it is much better to watch than it is to play. Honestly can't give it GOTY, still Witcher3 for me.

No way is it more fun to watch this game than to play it. It's pure exhilaration to beat bosses and respond to new attacks and the various tricks the game plays with your interface.

And that's a bit unfair, Nier innovated through it being an alternate universe in a game series, not just something brand new.

Uh, if Square had never said that Nier was related to Drakengard, no one would have drawn that conclusion. They really have nothing in common, especially storywise.

 

[Thanatos2k]

I mean it's not just best written game of the year, it's straight up game of the year. Every boss is a pure joy to fight, and the game has some seriously subtle meta humor. It's also absolutely masterful at building expectations and then subverting them.

Oh, and the best game soundtrack since Nier.

Come to think of it, Nier was another game that subverted its genre by integrating elements of bullet hell shooters. Interesting....

Agreed. And honestly, the sheer level of detail with choices and options just blows my mind. It's a "choices matter" game that actually has choices that matter, but also goes up and beyond.

And what I find amusing about the genocide route and Yahtzee's comments on it...

Spoiler

He's entirely right, the game does resent the player for their actions. Sans even points out the "completionist mindset. "Because you can, you will", or something to that effect.

It gets even more meta.

Spoiler

Flowey also makes an offhand comment near the end of the Genocide route about how after he reset the world a bunch he'd just go around killing everyone because he was bored with seeing peaceful outcomes. Then he looks right at the screen. I laughed.

The game knows exactly what you're doing.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

snip

Uh, if Square had never said that Nier was related to Drakengard, no one would have drawn that conclusion. They really have nothing in common, especially storywise.

Apparently there was a planned interquel before Cavia went under.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Fair question - is "best written game" enough to qualify as "best game"?

 

[Redryhno]

I mean it's not just best written game of the year, it's straight up game of the year. Every boss is a pure joy to fight, and the game has some seriously subtle meta humor. It's also absolutely masterful at building expectations and then subverting them.

Oh, and the best game soundtrack since Nier.

Come to think of it, Nier was another game that subverted its genre by integrating elements of bullet hell shooters. Interesting....

Eh...while I would say it's pretty good, it's such a slog to play through if you don't like bullet hells. It falls into the same trap alot of story heavy games do that aren't puzzles or P&Cs, in that it is much better to watch than it is to play. Honestly can't give it GOTY, still Witcher3 for me.

No way is it more fun to watch this game than to play it. It's pure exhilaration to beat bosses and respond to new attacks and the various tricks the game plays with your interface.

Subjectivity HO!

And like I said, if you don't like bullet hells, *HINT*HINT* it's a bit of a slog. I don't mind the new tricks, I'm glad that the mechanics change. Doesn't make it less boring that all you're doing is dodging, spamming the mercy button, and downing food to keep your hp up long enough to trigger the peaceful outcome. Hell, I'd say that outside of what happens in the box, the gameplay is bare bones.

Fair question - is "best written game" enough to qualify as "best game"?

Apparently so...sucks that it released this close to the end of the year, because I have a feeling it's going to be another Dragon Age Inquisition, where it wins a dozen awards or something, and then people will look back about a month later and go, "I really want to play that again", start playing and then go, "wait...THIS is what I thought GOTY was?". Granted, there's going to be at least some people that still like it, but it just didn't hit anything for me. Maybe it's just a bunch of hipsters and genuine Earthbound/Mother series fans talking it up or something.(was never all that interested in it myself)

 

[Thanatos2k]

I mean it's not just best written game of the year, it's straight up game of the year. Every boss is a pure joy to fight, and the game has some seriously subtle meta humor. It's also absolutely masterful at building expectations and then subverting them.

Oh, and the best game soundtrack since Nier.

Come to think of it, Nier was another game that subverted its genre by integrating elements of bullet hell shooters. Interesting....

Eh...while I would say it's pretty good, it's such a slog to play through if you don't like bullet hells. It falls into the same trap alot of story heavy games do that aren't puzzles or P&Cs, in that it is much better to watch than it is to play. Honestly can't give it GOTY, still Witcher3 for me.

No way is it more fun to watch this game than to play it. It's pure exhilaration to beat bosses and respond to new attacks and the various tricks the game plays with your interface.

Subjectivity HO!

And like I said, if you don't like bullet hells, *HINT*HINT* it's a bit of a slog. I don't mind the new tricks, I'm glad that the mechanics change. Doesn't make it less boring that all you're doing is dodging, spamming the mercy button, and downing food to keep your hp up long enough to trigger the peaceful outcome. Hell, I'd say that outside of what happens in the box, the gameplay is bare bones.

This sounds like...."If you're bad at the game it's not fun."

Which...sure, ok? Avoiding attacks IS the battle system. If you came wanting regular turn based combat you really came to the wrong place.

I mean, what's the difference between attacking every turn and sitting there every turn? You deal "damage" to the enemy and then have to avoid the counterattack. It's really the same either way.

Dark Souls is not a bad game if you can't beat it. Shadow of the Colossus is not a bad game if you can't figure out where the weak points are and give up. This game is not a bad game if you're unable to adapt to the battle system. This game is in fact a really really good game. Perfectly avoiding attacks long enough to win the battle is fun as hell.

 

[Uratoh]

I liked the Genocide run, The two fights you actually have in that run really hit home for me the lengths at which they're going to crush you like the monster you are. The thing is Undertale would have been crap without the Genocide ending. You aren't acting morally good if its literally the only option. Knowing it's there, even if you never take part elevates the other two.

I'd really agree here. If the Genocide option didn't exist, then it would just be 'what if we make an RPG where instead of fighting the monsters, you befriend them?'

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

So go through the game only in Genocide mode. You should get more than enough entertainment. There's absolutely no silliness to be found there.

That's the other problem. I'm not a sociopath.

I want to care about the characters, but being mildly annoying isn't a reason for me to kill everything. It is, however, reason enough for me to want to avoid them.

I can deal with a little silliness, but watching the fight with Papyrus just put me off of the game. A bad first impression, I suppose.

The game really has something for everyone.

I'd also like to point out that there is no such thing as a piece of entertainment that appeals to everyone. I don't care for the art style, I don't care for the meta-humor, and I don't care for the combat system. That doesn't make the game bad...I just don't think that it's for me.

 

[Redryhno]

I mean it's not just best written game of the year, it's straight up game of the year. Every boss is a pure joy to fight, and the game has some seriously subtle meta humor. It's also absolutely masterful at building expectations and then subverting them.

Oh, and the best game soundtrack since Nier.

Come to think of it, Nier was another game that subverted its genre by integrating elements of bullet hell shooters. Interesting....

Eh...while I would say it's pretty good, it's such a slog to play through if you don't like bullet hells. It falls into the same trap alot of story heavy games do that aren't puzzles or P&Cs, in that it is much better to watch than it is to play. Honestly can't give it GOTY, still Witcher3 for me.

No way is it more fun to watch this game than to play it. It's pure exhilaration to beat bosses and respond to new attacks and the various tricks the game plays with your interface.

Subjectivity HO!

And like I said, if you don't like bullet hells, *HINT*HINT* it's a bit of a slog. I don't mind the new tricks, I'm glad that the mechanics change. Doesn't make it less boring that all you're doing is dodging, spamming the mercy button, and downing food to keep your hp up long enough to trigger the peaceful outcome. Hell, I'd say that outside of what happens in the box, the gameplay is bare bones.

This sounds like...."If you're bad at the game it's not fun."

Which...sure, ok? Avoiding attacks IS the battle system. If you came wanting regular turn based combat you really came to the wrong place.

Right....because saying "I don't like this" automatically means "I'm bad"...I got halfway through the genocide run's final boss(trying not to spoil, I think you know who I'm talking about) fight without using healing dude. I enjoy and have beaten some of the harder Osu beatmaps. No armor, no shield, all dodge/parry DS1&2 runs. It's not about being bad, it's about "I find this very annoying, to a point that it isn't enjoyable to play this game even though I enjoy the dialogue and story".

 

[Gul]

I want to care about the characters, but being mildly annoying isn't a reason for me to kill everything. It is, however, reason enough for me to want to avoid them.

I can deal with a little silliness, but watching the fight with Papyrus just put me off of the game. A bad first impression, I suppose.

Again, you might wish to give the demo a try. It's where most of us got the first impression from - and a far better one, for that matter.

 

[Eric the Orange]

Seriously, am I the only one who finds this game kinda hypocritical?

Literally everything is trying to kill you, but you're a terrible person for killing in self defense.

In the genocide run

Spoiler

You lock yourself out of the good ending permanently, but yet the game calls everyone who watches it on youtube a bunch of cowards

I dunno, it's a wonderful game and all, but It's definitely on the lower end of my top ten RPGs, not the summit. And I feel that the success of this game is gonna start another flood of "artsy" "retro" indie games trying to latch on to the success like remoras. which I'll totally hold against it.

First off The indie community already has a ton retro artsy games. Hell I would call it a stretch to call this game artsy. Second while this game has a pretty rabid fanbase the actual sales numbers are only OK.

 

[Redryhno]

Seriously, am I the only one who finds this game kinda hypocritical?

Literally everything is trying to kill you, but you're a terrible person for killing in self defense.

In the genocide run

Spoiler

You lock yourself out of the good ending permanently, but yet the game calls everyone who watches it on youtube a bunch of cowards

I dunno, it's a wonderful game and all, but It's definitely on the lower end of my top ten RPGs, not the summit. And I feel that the success of this game is gonna start another flood of "artsy" "retro" indie games trying to latch on to the success like remoras. which I'll totally hold against it.

First off The indie community already has a ton retro artsy games. Hell I would call it a stretch to call this game artsy. Second while this game has a pretty rabid fanbase the actual sales numbers are only OK.

Eh, it's sorta artsy. There's the LOVE and EXP subversions, the pacifist run thing. There's alot of "high-minded criticism" regarding options in games and completionist attitudes.

And as far as the fanbase goes, I haven't been told to go rot in hell yet, so already it's better than my run-ins with the Star Citizen fanbase.

 

[Gul]

the actual sales numbers are only OK.

I wouldn't call two hundred thousand sold games in a month and a half "only OK". Sure, it's not much by AAA standards, but it's still a pretty good number for an indie game.

 

[Silence]

Still trying to figure out what went wrong with the sounds of the game, being outright hurtful to my ears.

Also music is really not that great.

Also I now have spoiled some things for me (yeah, I should not have ...) and ... it does not seem special. It does seem pretty much have to have the classic "all good vs all evil" simplicity thing going on, which does not at all make for a compelling story.

I'm probably still going to play through it some day (if I can mod out the ugly main character asset lolol), but I really don't feel like spending even 10? on it right now.

 

[ToastyMozart]

the actual sales numbers are only OK.

I wouldn't call two hundred thousand sold games in a month and a half "only OK". Sure, it's not much by AAA standards, but it's still a pretty good number for an indie game.

Hell. Factoring in Steam's 30%, that's $1.4M in revenue for a game with a kickstarter budget of $51K and change.
I'd consider a 2592% return on investment a resounding commercial success!

 

[Grampy_bone]

Sorry, but I find the idea of 'pacifist runs' in RPGs to be hopelessly dull and nonsensical. Like designing a Madden game where the football part is optional. "Ugh, I am so sick of all this ball-throwing stuff in these football games! Can't they ever innovate?!?" *eyeroll*. Please. I refuse to play yet another game which denigrates the player for the act of playing it.

 

[Gul]

Sorry, but I find the idea of 'pacifist runs' in RPGs to be hopelessly dull and nonsensical. Like designing a Madden game where the football part is optional. "Ugh, I am so sick of all this ball-throwing stuff in these football games! Can't they ever inovate?!?" *eyeroll*. Please. I refuse to play yet another game which denigrates the player for the act of playing it.

Why? It's still the exact same thing mechanically speaking. The only difference is that it doesn't necessarily end with killing everything that comes across.

If you think murdering is to RPGs what football is to football, then you may have some issues.

 

[Grampy_bone]

If you think murdering is to RPGs what football is to football, then you may have some issues.

Well, first off it's not murder if someone attacks you first. Second, RPGs have always been designed as combat simulators, the genre began life as an evolution of tabletop wargames. Stories were added to give context to the action, but they were games about killing stuff first and foremost. The idea of RPGs being all about emotional gobbledygook is a modern invention.