University Professor Pledges Support for PS3 Cracker, Mirrors Jailbreak Files

[Tron Paul]

That's not free speech, that's breaking and entering and showing everyone else how to do it.

That sounds about right.... except for the breaking and entering part.

It's more like buying lumber from a company, making it into a chair, showing people how to make the chair, and then having the lumber company sue you.... more like that.

Only the the lumber here would be security codes and whatnot, and by showing people how to make the chair you give people those security codes, and then the company sues you.

So, yeah, breaking and entering sounds about right to me. I dunno, it's all a big mess, so if anyone would like to give clarification over what is going on with failOverflow and those hackers feel free to do so.

How do you break into a device you own? Your device isn't Sony's private property. Can you clarify how these people broke and entered something that belonged to Sony? If it wasn't their device, what was it?

 

[fletch_talon]

Just googled this guy and found on his wikipedia article that he has written a number of books.
I would love for someone to get a torrent of them all and e-mail it to every student at his university.

Because he's totally obstructing free speech by charging us money for them.

 

[Tron Paul]

Just googled this guy and found on his wikipedia article that he has written a number of books.
I would love for someone to get a torrent of them all and e-mail it to every student at his university.

Because he's totally obstructing free speech by charging us money for them.

The problem with that argument is that HE wrote them. Geohot and fail0verflow did not take Sony's code. They wrote their own. What they did isn't stealing anything.

 

[Jumplion]

That's not free speech, that's breaking and entering and showing everyone else how to do it.

That sounds about right.... except for the breaking and entering part.

It's more like buying lumber from a company, making it into a chair, showing people how to make the chair, and then having the lumber company sue you.... more like that.

Only the the lumber here would be security codes and whatnot, and by showing people how to make the chair you give people those security codes, and then the company sues you.

So, yeah, breaking and entering sounds about right to me. I dunno, it's all a big mess, so if anyone would like to give clarification over what is going on with failOverflow and those hackers feel free to do so.

How do you break into a device you own? Your device isn't Sony's private property. Can you clarify how these people broke and entered something that belonged to Sony? If it wasn't their device, what was it?

From what I understand, they claimed to break into security codes of their Ps3s or something like that. They then proceeded to tell other people how to break Sony's security. I'm pretty sure that falls under the "illegal" category. It's sharing risky data that they claim breaks Sony's security, that's out of "fair use" and into "illegal hacking" or something.

 

[Tron Paul]

From what I understand, they claimed to break into security codes of their Ps3s or something like that. They then proceeded to tell other people how to break Sony's security. I'm pretty sure that falls under the "illegal" category. It's sharing risky data that they claim breaks Sony's security, that's out of "fair use" and into "illegal hacking" or something.

Ok so looking at it that way you could say they "jailbroke" the PS3, right? The jailbreaking team for the iPhone removed security restraints on that device. Apple tried to sue them, but the court found that jailbreaking devices is lawful. There is now a provision in the DMCA for such practices. Both geohot and fail0verflow did the same things that the iPhonedev team did. They jailbroke the PS3 so it would run code that is unapproved by Sony, the same way that the iPhone has apps approved by Apple.

 

[fletch_talon]

Just googled this guy and found on his wikipedia article that he has written a number of books.
I would love for someone to get a torrent of them all and e-mail it to every student at his university.

Because he's totally obstructing free speech by charging us money for them.

The problem with that argument is that HE wrote them. Geohot and fail0verflow did not take Sony's code. They wrote their own. What they did isn't stealing anything.

If they are distributing Sony's PS3 "security codes" (whatever they are exactly) then it is at least partially Sony's code.
But that's irrelevant anyway, because the e-mail would only have the .Torrent file. I'm not suggesting we illegally distribute his books, just instructing others on how to do so.

See the link now?

 

[Akisa]

Just googled this guy and found on his wikipedia article that he has written a number of books.
I would love for someone to get a torrent of them all and e-mail it to every student at his university.

Because he's totally obstructing free speech by charging us money for them.

The problem with that argument is that HE wrote them. Geohot and fail0verflow did not take Sony's code. They wrote their own. What they did isn't stealing anything.

If they are distributing Sony's PS3 "security codes" (whatever they are exactly) then it is at least partially Sony's code.
But that's irrelevant anyway, because the e-mail would only have the .Torrent file. I'm not suggesting we illegally distribute his books, just instructing others on how to do so.

See the link now?

Except you're passing out free books (although digital) to his students. To use your book analogy, it's more like his books have special protection to prevent people from adding notes in the margin of the book. So you discovered a way to remove the protection and pass the know how to all his students.

 

[fletch_talon]

Just googled this guy and found on his wikipedia article that he has written a number of books.
I would love for someone to get a torrent of them all and e-mail it to every student at his university.

Because he's totally obstructing free speech by charging us money for them.

The problem with that argument is that HE wrote them. Geohot and fail0verflow did not take Sony's code. They wrote their own. What they did isn't stealing anything.

If they are distributing Sony's PS3 "security codes" (whatever they are exactly) then it is at least partially Sony's code.
But that's irrelevant anyway, because the e-mail would only have the .Torrent file. I'm not suggesting we illegally distribute his books, just instructing others on how to do so.

See the link now?

Except you're passing out free books (although digital) to his students. To use your book analogy, it's more like his books have special protection to prevent people from adding notes in the margin of the book. So you discovered a way to remove the protection and pass the know how to all his students.

Except I'm not...
I'm showing them how to access hs books for free, going as far to give them a direct link to them. I never put the books on the internet, they're already there (at least I'd be surprised if they weren't).

And no, your analogy is incredibly inaccurate. Unless you truly believe that this information will be used primarily for people to add homebrew games and linux to their PS3. Lets get real here, regardless of the author's original intention, these security codes and instructions will be used to crack PS3s so people don't have to pay for games.
Just like every other cracked console in the world, including the use of R4 devices. If you think their primary use is anything more than piracy then you are deluding yourself.

 

[TechNoFear]

This guy went up against ALL the movie industries at one point. He hosted code for DVD decryption. That stuff that used to keep DVD's from being decoded by unauthorized devices.

Was that DVD Jon's [Jon Lech] DeCCS code?

Because Sony violated DVD Jon's 'copyright' in its XCP DRM (commonly known as the 'Sony rootkit').

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/18/sony_copyright_infringement/

 

[bridgerbot]

From what I understand, they claimed to break into security codes of their Ps3s or something like that.

That's what I understand too, we are in agreement.

They then proceeded to tell other people how to break Sony's security. I'm pretty sure that falls under the "illegal" category.

This is where you are incorrect. That is totally legal. You buy hardware, you can code it and do whatever you want to it.

It's sharing risky data that they claim breaks Sony's security, that's out of "fair use" and into "illegal hacking" or something.

That really doesn't have anything to do with "fair use". As far as "illegal hacking", you can't "illegally hack" the hardware YOU own.

You are acting as though he does not own his hardware..... he does own his hardware.

 

[bridgerbot]

Unless you truly believe that this information will be used primarily for people to add homebrew games and linux to their PS3. Lets get real here, regardless of the author's original intention, these security codes and instructions will be used to crack PS3s so people don't have to pay for games.

I actually would be a person who would hack just to get my Linux back. What would I do with it you ask..... the same things I was doing with it before they pulled it away from me.... and no, I didn't copy PS3 games and play them on Linux. I'd still buy games too..... because copying a huge PS3 game would be a pain in the a**.

 

[Tron Paul]

This guy went up against ALL the movie industries at one point. He hosted code for DVD decryption. That stuff that used to keep DVD's from being decoded by unauthorized devices.

Was that DVD Jon's [Jon Lech] DeCCS code?

Because Sony violated DVD Jon's 'copyright' in its XCP DRM (commonly known as the 'Sony rootkit').

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/18/sony_copyright_infringement/

Oh El Reg. Best tech news site ever.

Except I'm not...
I'm showing them how to access hs books for free, going as far to give them a direct link to them. I never put the books on the internet, they're already there (at least I'd be surprised if they weren't).

And no, your analogy is incredibly inaccurate. Unless you truly believe that this information will be used primarily for people to add homebrew games and linux to their PS3. Lets get real here, regardless of the author's original intention, these security codes and instructions will be used to crack PS3s so people don't have to pay for games.
Just like every other cracked console in the world, including the use of R4 devices. If you think their primary use is anything more than piracy then you are deluding yourself.

Ok so piracy is an outcome of being able to use the PS3 fully. Does that make what they did illegal? Let's go back to the iPhone case. iPhoneDev Team jailbroke the iPhone, fail0verflow and geohot jailbroke the PS3. Do some people who jailbroke their iPhone pirate apps? Of course some do. Did that make it illegal? Not to the courts.

 

[Akisa]

Just googled this guy and found on his wikipedia article that he has written a number of books.
I would love for someone to get a torrent of them all and e-mail it to every student at his university.

Because he's totally obstructing free speech by charging us money for them.

The problem with that argument is that HE wrote them. Geohot and fail0verflow did not take Sony's code. They wrote their own. What they did isn't stealing anything.

If they are distributing Sony's PS3 "security codes" (whatever they are exactly) then it is at least partially Sony's code.
But that's irrelevant anyway, because the e-mail would only have the .Torrent file. I'm not suggesting we illegally distribute his books, just instructing others on how to do so.

See the link now?

Except you're passing out free books (although digital) to his students. To use your book analogy, it's more like his books have special protection to prevent people from adding notes in the margin of the book. So you discovered a way to remove the protection and pass the know how to all his students.

Except I'm not...
I'm showing them how to access hs books for free, going as far to give them a direct link to them. I never put the books on the internet, they're already there (at least I'd be surprised if they weren't).

And no, your analogy is incredibly inaccurate. Unless you truly believe that this information will be used primarily for people to add homebrew games and linux to their PS3. Lets get real here, regardless of the author's original intention, these security codes and instructions will be used to crack PS3s so people don't have to pay for games.
Just like every other cracked console in the world, including the use of R4 devices. If you think their primary use is anything more than piracy then you are deluding yourself.

Ok fine lets get rid of cars because they will be used to allow people to run away from cops. Also lets get rid of knives because they allow people to rob other people. If that's too out there for you, lets get rid of CD/DVD/Blu ray burners because people will use them to burn pirated media. Let's also get rid of the internet because people could use the internet to download pirated media.

 

[fletch_talon]

Ok fine lets get rid of cars because they will be used to allow people to run away from cops. Also lets get rid of knives because they allow people to rob other people. If that's too out there for you, lets get rid of CD/DVD/Blu ray burners because people will use them to burn pirated media. Let's also get rid of the internet because people could use the internet to download pirated media.

Because society's need for transportation is totally comparable to a minorities "wish" for the ability to use linux and homebrew crap on their PS3.
This arguement wasn't valid the first dozen times I heard it, it aint valid now.

Ok so piracy is an outcome of being able to use the PS3 fully. Does that make what they did illegal? Let's go back to the iPhone case. iPhoneDev Team jailbroke the iPhone, fail0verflow and geohot jailbroke the PS3. Do some people who jailbroke their iPhone pirate apps? Of course some do. Did that make it illegal? Not to the courts.

I never said it was illegal. I certainly don't agree with it and think it should be considered a legal grey area at the least, but I never claimed it was illegal.

I actually would be a person who would hack just to get my Linux back. What would I do with it you ask..... the same things I was doing with it before they pulled it away from me.... and no, I didn't copy PS3 games and play them on Linux. I'd still buy games too..... because copying a huge PS3 game would be a pain in the a**.

I don't doubt you, and I actually do sympathise to some extent with people who bought their console earlier and had the function removed. It was certainly wrong of Sony to do that, and something should probably be done about it. I just don't think making it possible for widescale piracy to take place, is the "something" that should be done.

 

[Akisa]

Ok fine lets get rid of cars because they will be used to allow people to run away from cops. Also lets get rid of knives because they allow people to rob other people. If that's too out there for you, lets get rid of CD/DVD/Blu ray burners because people will use them to burn pirated media. Let's also get rid of the internet because people could use the internet to download pirated media.

Because society's need for transportation is totally comparable to a minorities "wish" for the ability to use linux and homebrew crap on their PS3.
This arguement wasn't valid the first dozen times I heard it, it aint valid now.

Ok what about the knives, burners and internet?

 

[fletch_talon]

Ok fine lets get rid of cars because they will be used to allow people to run away from cops. Also lets get rid of knives because they allow people to rob other people. If that's too out there for you, lets get rid of CD/DVD/Blu ray burners because people will use them to burn pirated media. Let's also get rid of the internet because people could use the internet to download pirated media.

Because society's need for transportation is totally comparable to a minorities "wish" for the ability to use linux and homebrew crap on their PS3.
This arguement wasn't valid the first dozen times I heard it, it aint valid now.

Ok what about the knives, burners and internet?

-Knives have been an essential tool since the stone age for more than simply killing shit.
-CD and DVD burners, whilst not essential are incredibly useful for the transfer of 100% legal files, and whilst I have no statistics to prove as such I'd readily wager that the average person (if not the majority) would use them for a plethora of useful and legal purposes such as backing up data, file storage and (legal) file transfer.
-The internet is for porn.

Now you can feel free to continue naming things if you want, but I'm pretty sure you could have figured all this out for yourself if you took the time. Fact of the matter is, with the exception of recreational drugs (which I have no interest in) everything I can think of has an intended use which outweighs its potential misuse. For the PS3 and its linux/homebrew capabilities, this simply isn't the case.

As I already stated, I do feel that Sony should suffer repercussions for their actions, but making their console accessible to pirates is not the way. Reduced game sales will hurt developers as much if not more than it will hurt Sony.

 

[Tron Paul]

-Knives have been an essential tool since the stone age for more than simply killing shit.
-CD and DVD burners, whilst not essential are incredibly useful for the transfer of 100% legal files, and whilst I have no statistics to prove as such I'd readily wager that the average person (if not the majority) would use them for a plethora of useful and legal purposes such as backing up data, file storage and (legal) file transfer.
-The internet is for porn.

Now you can feel free to continue naming things if you want, but I'm pretty sure you could have figured all this out for yourself if you took the time. Fact of the matter is, with the exception of recreational drugs (which I have no interest in) everything I can think of has an intended use which outweighs its potential misuse. For the PS3 and its linux/homebrew capabilities, this simply isn't the case.

As I already stated, I do feel that Sony should suffer repercussions for their actions, but making their console accessible to pirates is not the way. Reduced game sales will hurt developers as much if not more than it will hurt Sony.

How else can Sony suffer repercussions? They didn't even get a slap on the wrist in the US for taking away OtherOS. Honestly the console was already "accessible" to pirates. Jailbreaking the console was the only way to return full functionality.

 

[fletch_talon]

-Knives have been an essential tool since the stone age for more than simply killing shit.
-CD and DVD burners, whilst not essential are incredibly useful for the transfer of 100% legal files, and whilst I have no statistics to prove as such I'd readily wager that the average person (if not the majority) would use them for a plethora of useful and legal purposes such as backing up data, file storage and (legal) file transfer.
-The internet is for porn.

Now you can feel free to continue naming things if you want, but I'm pretty sure you could have figured all this out for yourself if you took the time. Fact of the matter is, with the exception of recreational drugs (which I have no interest in) everything I can think of has an intended use which outweighs its potential misuse. For the PS3 and its linux/homebrew capabilities, this simply isn't the case.

As I already stated, I do feel that Sony should suffer repercussions for their actions, but making their console accessible to pirates is not the way. Reduced game sales will hurt developers as much if not more than it will hurt Sony.

How else can Sony suffer repercussions? They didn't even get a slap on the wrist in the US for taking away OtherOS. Honestly the console was already "accessible" to pirates. Jailbreaking the console was the only way to return full functionality.

A quick search showed that Sony is on the recieving end of some lawsuits, though I'm not sure they've been resolved as yet. There was also mention of a man recieving monetary "compensation" from Sony.

If the people who were actually concerned about the Other OS joined forces (to distribute legal costs) then they could take action against Sony for false advertising.

Apart from that, I don't know how else you can get your point across. All I know is I don't agree with hurting the developers in the process. The phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind.

As for the PS3 being "already accessible" to pirates, the impression I get from all the stories about this issue thusfar is that very few if any people had succeeded in cracking the console (thus enabling, among other things, piracy). My understanding is that it was the "other OS" removal which created the motivation for them to do so.

 

[Jumplion]

From what I understand, they claimed to break into security codes of their Ps3s or something like that.

That's what I understand too, we are in agreement.

They then proceeded to tell other people how to break Sony's security. I'm pretty sure that falls under the "illegal" category.

This is where you are incorrect. That is totally legal. You buy hardware, you can code it and do whatever you want to it.

It's sharing risky data that they claim breaks Sony's security, that's out of "fair use" and into "illegal hacking" or something.

That really doesn't have anything to do with "fair use". As far as "illegal hacking", you can't "illegally hack" the hardware YOU own.

You are acting as though he does not own his hardware..... he does own his hardware.

Okay, we're on the same page here, good.

I'm not saying that he doesn't own his hardware, that's not what I'm arguing (I'm tempted to claim strawman, but eh). I'm saying that he he did whateveritwas he did to his hardware, which itself could probably be overlooked, but then proceeded to tell others how to crack security. The keyword here is security, and as far as I know, sharing a security break is illegal. You are trying to hide it behind "he owns his hardware, he can do whatever he wants with it!"

Like the guy I quoted before said, it's like if a kid stole the professor's answer key from a review packet he owned. In itself, it could probably be overlooked with minimal damages and maybe nobody would even know. But then he proceeds to give everyone else the answer keys, and that's the issue here.

 

[TechNoFear]

It is absurd that jailbreaking your phone is legal but jailbreaking your console is not.

If the people who were actually concerned about the Other OS joined forces (to distribute legal costs) then they could take action against Sony for false advertising.

Yea...I am sure the compensation for the loss would be less than the cost of the law suit.

I know when GE came after me for reverse engineering their DASH series locomotives onboard computer systems I nearly had a heart attack.

A VERY stressful few months, for just doing my job. [automating the data retreval saved my client over $2 mill in the first 12 months and has furthered their development of driverless trains.]

Luckily all GE could do was refuse to work on any project I was involved in (which has cost me $10,000's if not $100,000's).