Unpopular opinion: The Cowboy Bebop dub is overrated.

[I can't enter my old name]

And the "real fans always go sub!" weeb crowd mostly didn't notice dubs getting better... because they never stopped reading subtitles and pretending they could understand inflection and nuance in a language they couldn't speak.

I'm not an sub elitist, but in my opinion the argument you can't hear quality in a language you can't understand is over-exaggerated. If you watch enough anime you will get a general idea of what Japanese sounds like. Are there performances that sound fake and terrible to native speakers? Probably, but native speakers don't talk like that anyways. What's important is that it's clear and aesthetically pleasing to you.

You can pick up deviations from the norm, so you can tell things like a voice overreacting, being too monotone, or irregular cadences. You can pick up differences in sentence inflections, inflections of common words, or phonemes that appear at the start or end of a sentence that deviate from Standard Japanese. You won't know why, but you'll notice it.

Nuance is, I mean that's there's no way you're going to understand that without having a Japanese literary education. But anime isn't high art, so it's most likely not important.

But then there's also the big change at the end of the movie by adding in her talking with her dad about their move and saying, "I think I can handle it", in the original it's heavily implied that not only did she and her family forget the events of the movie, but that they were essentially reset to how they were before they entered the gate.

I only watched the dub a long time ago, but if she forgot the entire journey that's a terrible ending.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

The dub I give an A. At its worse, the dub an A-. You can do far worse than that, and I am thankful Bebop never succumbed to that problem. One of the pioneers of having a great English dub.

Spike sounds like Shadow the Hedgehog in the English dub.

 

[BrawlMan]

Spike sounds like Shadow the Hedgehog in the English dub.

No he does not. He's sounds like none of the guys who voiced Shadow. You got stakes in your ears.

 

[Kyrian007]

I'm not an sub elitist, but in my opinion the argument you can't hear quality in a language you can't understand is over-exaggerated. If you watch enough anime you will get a general idea of what Japanese sounds like. Are there performances that sound fake and terrible to native speakers? Probably, but native speakers don't talk like that anyways. What's important is that it's clear and aesthetically pleasing to you.

You can pick up deviations from the norm, so you can tell things like a voice overreacting, being too monotone, or irregular cadences. You can pick up differences in sentence inflections, inflections of common words, or phonemes that appear at the start or end of a sentence that deviate from Standard Japanese. You won't know why, but you'll notice it.

Nuance is, I mean that's there's no way you're going to understand that without having a Japanese literary education. But anime isn't high art, so it's most likely not important.

Well, my friends are all sub elitists. I'm constantly getting razzed for preferring dubs. So I kind of have a tendency to lash out a little at this particular argument. Of course you can pick up the obvious meaning in tone and pacing in just about any language. What you'd miss (amongst a host of other things) is any kind of (otherwise) obvious misdirection. Kind of like a human telling a dog he's the most "worthless, useless, ugly, stinky, mongrel on the planet who would be better off just put down... yes he is, yes he is" in a syrupy sweet tone of voice. In a way, the dog hears subtext... but no text. The sub purist sees the text, but understands the subtext about as well as the dog.

But hey, its an unpopular opinion thread. That's just mine.

 

[BrawlMan]

Well, my friends are all sub elitists.

Exactly why I decided not to join that anime club in college. The club did not last long any way, so good riddance.

 

[Gordon_4]

Well, my friends are all sub elitists. I'm constantly getting razzed for preferring dubs. So I kind of have a tendency to lash out a little at this particular argument. Of course you can pick up the obvious meaning in tone and pacing in just about any language. What you'd miss (amongst a host of other things) is any kind of (otherwise) obvious misdirection. Kind of like a human telling a dog he's the most "worthless, useless, ugly, stinky, mongrel on the planet who would be better off just put down... yes he is, yes he is" in a syrupy sweet tone of voice. In a way, the dog hears subtext... but no text. The sub purist sees the text, but understands the subtext about as well as the dog.

But hey, its an unpopular opinion thread. That's just mine.

This has long been my response to sub purists:

Sometimes a sub provides a better experience. Sometimes the dub is the better experience.

 

[Drathnoxis]

As is every supposedly good dub. People also tried to say that the Death Note dub was good, and look what that produced.


The original language will always be higher quality. It's going to have the most money for higher quality actors, and the direction will be closest to the creator's intention. Not to mention forcing new lines into original lip flaps is always going to cause problems.

There is no situation where a dub can exceed the original... except when the original is kind of boring and you need a terrible dub to add some unintentional hilarity, like in Shenmue or Garzey's Wing.

 

[BrawlMan]

There is no situation where a dub can exceed the original...

Fullmetal Alchemist & Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Outlaw Star, FLCL, Space Dandy, Big O SFII: The Animated Movie, Ninja Scroll, Redline, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, and many others says hi.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Fullmetal Alchemist & Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Outlaw Star, FLCL, Space Dandy, Big O SFII: The Animated Movie, Ninja Scroll, Redline, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, and many others says hi.

I direct you to my first sentence.

 

[BrawlMan]

I direct you to my first sentence.

I noticed. And as far as Death Note goes, the problems with that show or the manga for that matter, are more than just a dubbing quality. The dubbing is fine as far as I'm concerned, but it's storing plot structure that falls apart. Don't even get me started on that ending. The Japanese live action movies are better. That is all I have to say on that matter.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I noticed. And as far as Death Note goes, the problems with that show or the manga for that matter, are more than just a dubbing quality. The dubbing is fine as far as I'm concerned, but it's storing plot structure that falls apart. Don't even get me started on that ending. The Japanese live action movies are better. That is all I have to say on that matter.

No, first sentence.

As is every supposedly good dub.

Fullmetal Alchemist & Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Outlaw Star, FLCL, Space Dandy, Big O SFII: The Animated Movie, Ninja Scroll, Redline, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, and many others says hi.

Overrated.

 

[BrawlMan]

No first sentence.

Like I said before: I noticed. I can read fine.

Overrated

Only in your opinion, and I call that goal posting. And it's not like the Japanese are bad, but their English counterparts are just as good or even better. When the creator of Cowboy Bebop, and the creator of FLCL prefer the English dubs of their respective show, you know you've done something right. Bloodlust was actually done in English first, before Japanese. So here we have a Japanese anime that was made for English first, then redubbed for the Japanese after it's theatrical release in japan. With blood loss was first released in japan, it was the English dubbing with Japanese subtitles. How's that for irony?

There's nothing "overrated" about any of them, and all that says is that your downplaying what they actually accomplished and by moving the medium forward. It's called giving credit where credit is actually due. These jobs went above and beyond 100%. Deal with it.

And I've already mentioned this before, but if you're anime takes place in a non Japanese setting, or are not filled with an entire cast of characters that are not Asian or japanese, it makes even less sense for everyone we speak in japanese. I know about the whole dubbing in one's original country and all that, but it doesn't make listening to the Japanese version any less awkward, if the characters are all non Japanese. Do I really need to listen to the entire population of Chicago speak Japanese (Rhetorical question)? Bonus points for anyone that gets the anime I'm referencing.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Both. It is above average... but also back in its day good dubs were fairly rare, making something like Cowboy Bebop stand out even more than just its obvious quality. And the "real fans always go sub!" weeb crowd mostly didn't notice dubs getting better... because they never stopped reading subtitles and pretending they could understand inflection and nuance in a language they couldn't speak.

I always prefer subs because I find that reading bad dialogue feels less cringy than hearing bad dialogue, and anime has A LOT of bad dialogue.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Only in your opinion, and I call that goal posting.

I don't know what that is.

Bloodlust was actually done in English first, before Japanese. So here we have a Japanese anime that was made for English first, then redubbed for the Japanese after it's theatrical release in japan. With blood loss was first released in japan, it was the English dubbing with Japanese subtitles. How's that for irony?

And? I never said that Japanese was always better, just the original language.

Bonus points for anyone that gets the anime I'm referencing.

I'm gonna guess Baccano?

 

[BrawlMan]

And? I never said that Japanese was always better, just the original language.

Problem with that is Japanese is the original language for a majority of these anime. So you stated and implied you did. Especially the overrated argument.

I don't know what that is.

Look it up.

I'm gonna guess Baccano?

No.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Bonus points for anyone that gets the anime I'm referencing.

Gunsmith Cats?

 

[BrawlMan]

Gunsmith Cats?

Correct.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Look it up.

Urban Dictionary: goalposting

Goalposting is a sex position in which one person lays on his or her back with two other people straddling. Named because of the horizontal and two uprights.

www.urbandictionary.com

Well, whatever you are into, but I don't see how it's particularly relevant to our discussion.

 

[BrawlMan]

Well, whatever you are into, but I don't see how it's particularly relevant to our discussion.

Wrong one. Start looking harder, and it is relevant to the discussion.

Moving the goalposts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/to-move-the-goalposts