Unskippable: Metroid: Other M Part 1

[Knight Templar]

That voice and the word made by it were excruciating. This is almost into the realms of so-bad-it's-worse, almost so it's still a good vid from the LRR guys.

 

[Jabberwock King]

OK, this is my 1st time hearing Samus' voice-actor and Ho-ly Shit! That was bad. That was agonizing. It's like the script was translated using Babel fish!

 

[Warachia]

Yeah... in this one cutscene I suddenly get why everyone was so pissed about Other M.

Makes me wonder why there's a faction that actually likes it.

The gameplay is actually not that bad. Not that I'm defending the game, but if you take out the god awful story, characterization, script, ect. the core game play does hold up fairly well.

You mean all four hours of it? That's pretty short for an indie game let alone a $60 title.

Eh well it took me 6 hours to beat and 10 to get 100%. But yeah a $60 game should have at least 20 hours of gameplay to justify the cost.

The cutscenes are about two hours long, and since he's only talking about the gameplay, I didn't include them either.

 

[Kyrian007]

Great episode, can't wait for part 2.

But I still don't get the hate-on for other M.

"Voice was emotionless and annoying, waaaaahhhhhh." Yeah, because space bounty hunters are supposed to have rich and practiced public speaking voices, even in inner monologue. I'd have loved to hear Jen Hale again as well, good luck getting her to work for what this other lady probably got. When you give a voice to a voiceless character (other than the general grunt-ieness of Samus prior to OM) complaining about it is... the mark of the crybaby. You don't like it, too bad. I've heard way worse voice acting in games that people loved.

"She took orders from some MAN? That's not the Samus I imagined." Nail on the head... "YOU IMAGINED." Because WE DIDN'T FREAKING KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HER PAST PRIOR TO OM. She had been part of a military. Odds are then that she took orders from somebody. It's a guy... that's a problem? Would have changed the story EXACTLY NONE if that officer had been a woman (well it would have been kinda hot, but otherwise the same.) See above about giving voice to voiceless character, it's exactly the same when you give backstory to storyless character. So she's not the cocksure (or the fem equivalent if the cock- prefix doesn't work) woman version of shoot em' up Duke Nukem. Wow, they gave her an ACTUAL PERSONALITY complete with FLAWS and EMOTIONAL TRIGGERS. THOSE BASTARDS, how dare they.

"She had to wait for ORDERS to use upgrades?" It was a freakin FRAMING DEVICE. How many times does the "oops, I tripped and broke every upgrade on the suit, how clumsy of me" method work before she just comes off as a particularly uncoordinated for a world class bounty hunter? Retro Studios never came up with anything better than that stupid re-hash. So Ninja went with a different framing device. Yeah, it sucked. You have a better framing device? Kinda hard to come up with isn't it? You can't just let her keep the upgrades and weapons. Welcome to the Metroid sequel "Metroid: You Start Fully Powered Up and Can Beat it in 5 Minutes...-oid." I doubt many would spend money on that.

"Why she freeze whun see Ridluy, she kill him all teh time?" Let's see... Ridley killed her family when she was just a child, she defeats him twice (killing him the second time,) and now he's BACK FROM THE DEAD and even more pissed than before. A little freeze-up can happen at that point. It was probably a drain on the armor's energy reserves as the waste recycler and eradication system went into overdrive for a few seconds there. Totally understandable now that she actually has a personality other than just a gun arm.

"BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, ARRGGGHHH" Ok, I got nothing here. Perhaps the playtesters loaded them up with the freakin stupid complaints above and they figured they had to really overdrive a plot point home to get it thru the thick skulls of the fanbase. Yeah, it was pretty annoying.

 

[Trishbot]

Great episode, can't wait for part 2.

But I still don't get the hate-on for other M.

*cracks knuckles* Oh boy, I'm going to love this...

"Voice was emotionless and annoying, waaaaahhhhhh." Yeah, because space bounty hunters are supposed to have rich and practiced public speaking voices, even in inner monologue.

They're not supposed to NOT have cool voices either. Case in point, bounty hunters such as Boba Fett in Star Wars sound cool (both old and new voices), and most every other masked warrior in gaming and movies has a cool, likeable, empowering voice (Master Chief, Isaac Clarke, Batman, even Tali in Mass Effect, the "cute girl", has an impressionable and strong voice).

A strong facet of likeable, popular characters with speaking voices is they have voices that most people like listening to. Arkham Asylum wouldn't be half as good without its talented voice cast and its pitch-perfect use of Kevin Conroy as the voice of the hero.

I'm not saying she has to be perfect, but a good voice actor for a good gaming icon was absolutely one of the most essential parts of this game. Even in the Smash Bros. series, she sounds likeable, strong, and interesting, and that's only with a few taunts and lines to work with.

I'd have loved to hear Jen Hale again as well, good luck getting her to work for what this other lady probably got. When you give a voice to a voiceless character (other than the general grunt-ieness of Samus prior to OM) complaining about it is... the mark of the crybaby. You don't like it, too bad. I've heard way worse voice acting in games that people loved.

I like plenty of games with bad voice acting too... but I like the games MORE with better voice acting. Resident Evil's hammy, campy dialogue would never work in this day and age, and the remake did it far better. Beyond that, Other M's story was supposed to be taken seriously; it wasn't campy or goofy. Other M was a very serious story with lots of emotional weight, important character moments, and heavy story content... and bad acting DESTROYS the impact of those scenes. A wise saying in Hollywood is that a good actor can make bad material resonate, but a bad actor can make a great story and script fail miserably.

Other M's story AND voice acting were bad... so that's doubly worse. The gameplay was marginally decent, but concerning the story and voice acting? Really bad. That's not being a "crybaby", that's just being honest and having a smidgen of good taste.

"She took orders from some MAN? That's not the Samus I imagined." Nail on the head... "YOU IMAGINED." Because WE DIDN'T FREAKING KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HER PAST PRIOR TO OM.

Do you know what a "Strawman Argument" is? Because you just did it. Nobody is saying "this is the Samus I IMAGINED". I've played Metroid for nearly 25 years, and in none of the nearly 10 games she's been in has she curled up into a little ball and cried when Ridley swooped in to get killed for the umpteenth time.

And I totally reject the "we don't know anything about her past" argument, since Samus's personality, and past, have been explored, very well, I might add, in games such as Zero Mission, Super Metroid, Fusion, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 3, and others. Just because they were not overtly expository does not mean they didn't exist, and I dare say Samus's touching act of respect and remembrance towards fallen comrades at the end of Prime 3, her poignant and empathic way of closing the eyes of a dead soldier in Prime 2, her anger and determined face when fighting Ridley in Zero Mission, her confident and classy smile and expressions in the endings of Fusion, and much more, showed LOADS of character traits and depth. If you never saw that, sorry, but you weren't looking deep enough, because there are plenty of examples that show she did have a lot going on and she was not a blank cipher.

She had been part of a military. Odds are then that she took orders from somebody. It's a guy... that's a problem? Would have changed the story EXACTLY NONE if that officer had been a woman (well it would have been kinda hot, but otherwise the same.) See above about giving voice to voiceless character, it's exactly the same when you give backstory to storyless character. So she's not the cocksure (or the fem equivalent if the cock- prefix doesn't work) woman version of shoot em' up Duke Nukem. Wow, they gave her an ACTUAL PERSONALITY complete with FLAWS and EMOTIONAL TRIGGERS. THOSE BASTARDS, how dare they.

As a girl, this offends me. See, the problem was NOT giving her a "personality" (which, again, I argue she had), but the problem was giving her a BAD personality. If you made Mario a cross-dressing, suicidally depressed plumber who battles an addiction to painkillers, congrats, you just gave him more personality... but that's not a GOOD personality, and nobody wanted or asked for it.

Also, her obeying orders was NEVER a problem... if the orders made sense. The problem is her orders don't make sense; she goes into a lava level and the man in charge doesn't grant her permission to TURN ON HER SHIELDS. She gets into situations where using her equipment could save lives and he DOESN'T ALLOW IT. The game makes us run into dead ends for no other reason than because we're told to. Samus never questions Adam; she does as she's told, even when these orders make no sense and jeopardize her health. Male or female, that's stupid, and she, also, isn't obligated to even do that. She's no longer military. Furthermore, if the game had SHOWN a reason, just one reason, why Adam is a good commander, sure.... MAYBE. But the game never even does that. Adam is a jerk and an incompetent moron all the way to the end.

A good firefighter follows orders; but no firefighter rushes into a burning building without protection, even under orders. That's what Adam did, and that's why it bothers ME.

"She had to wait for ORDERS to use upgrades?" It was a freakin FRAMING DEVICE. How many times does the "oops, I tripped and broke every upgrade on the suit, how clumsy of me" method work before she just comes off as a particularly uncoordinated for a world class bounty hunter? Retro Studios never came up with anything better than that stupid re-hash. So Ninja went with a different framing device. Yeah, it sucked. You have a better framing device?

Off the top of my head? Yes. Keep the same general idea, but throw in an electronic device on the ship that literally disables Samus's equipment and Adam is working in the computer room to fix it. Nothing gets "authorized", Samus is still limited, Adam is proven useful, and stupid moments like the "lava level" room make sense since her powers are limited by a timing mechanic instead of one man's incompetence and distrust. There, that took me 5 seconds to think up.

Kinda hard to come up with isn't it?

(points above)

You can't just let her keep the upgrades and weapons. Welcome to the Metroid sequel "Metroid: You Start Fully Powered Up and Can Beat it in 5 Minutes...-oid." I doubt many would spend money on that.

You never played Metroid Prime 3, did you... because, um, you start the game with all your equipment. You just get NEW equipment as the game goes further along. So, yeah, there HAS been Metroid games that did this very thing... and the game was GREAT.

"Why she freeze whun see Ridluy, she kill him all teh time?" Let's see... Ridley killed her family when she was just a child, she defeats him twice (killing him the second time,) and now he's BACK FROM THE DEAD and even more pissed than before. A little freeze-up can happen at that point. It was probably a drain on the armor's energy reserves as the waste recycler and eradication system went into overdrive for a few seconds there. Totally understandable now that she actually has a personality other than just a gun arm.

According to the game timeline, this would be the fourth or fifth time she's fought Ridley, sixth if you include the Metroid manga. He's come back from the dead EVERY time, sometimes as an even bigger, meaner robot cyborg alien killing machine. Beyond that, this isn't even the same Ridley; it's a clone. It doesn't even know who Samus is and just attacks everyone on sight, so it's not even the same guy that killed her parents when she was, oh, THREE years old. And it wasn't just a "little" freeze up; she laid on the ground crying and begging for help for nearly a full minute and a half, enough that it pretty much gets her friend Anthony KILLED. Again, if this happened in any other game, and Anthony wasn't around to save her, she'd have been killed, so it doesn't make sense when compared to all those previous battles.

"BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, ARRGGGHHH" Ok, I got nothing here. Perhaps the playtesters loaded them up with the freakin stupid complaints above and they figured they had to really overdrive a plot point home to get it thru the thick skulls of the fanbase. Yeah, it was pretty annoying.

I would have killed for a synonym. "The infant", "the hatchling", "the Metroid spawn", "the Metroid child", "the young Metroid"... something, anything... Beyond that, the opening of Super Metroid has her dumping the thing in the laps of some scientists and ditching it, never looking back. The plot of the game wasn't because she "loved it", but because it got kidnapped by space pirates that wanted to use its energy for evil means and she HAD to stop it. She never showed love for it in any prior games, so it's odd to see that so forced upon us now.

 

[Kyrian007]

Do you know what a "Strawman Argument" is? Because you just did it. Nobody is saying "this is the Samus I IMAGINED". I've played Metroid for nearly 25 years, and in none of the nearly 10 games she's been in has she curled up into a little ball and cried when Ridley swooped in to get killed for the umpteenth time.

Huh? So you're not saying she's not the Samus you imagined... you're saying she's not the Samus you imagined... not seeing a strawman here. You made the exact same argument I was talking about a sentence after declaring it a strawman. So even if it was (which it wasn't considering there were pages of posts all making that same argument prior in this thread, try reading it) just one sentence later you effectively un-strawman-ed it. Thanks... I guess? You must be a bigger Metroid fan than I am I admit. I haven?t read the manga. Still, keeping it to the video games, a couple of pages of flavor text (mostly about how much space pirates hate and fear Samus) and a look or a glance here and there really don't constitute backstory. They give someone kind of a feel for a character but they really tell us nothing specific about her past, life outside of bounty hunting, anything really.

Other M was a very serious story with lots of emotional weight, important character moments, and heavy story content... and bad acting DESTROYS the impact of those scenes.

Not really for me. Again, we saw it differently, this was the first time I consider the character of Samus to be more than just gun-arm alien shooter girl. The voice acting was bad, but considering that they were GOING for an emotionally scarred character who probably bottles emotions and channels it into fighting and surviving it really didn't seem enough out of place to bother me much. I considered OM a little "story heavy" (sometimes long cutscenes bother me a little, "Metal Gear" I'm looking right at you) But seeing how this is the first time we got any story about Samus, I didn't let that get to me. The story wasn't great, but I actually read books if I want a great story. I don't look for videogames to be Clarke or Asimov.

As a girl, this offends me. See, the problem was NOT giving her a "personality" (which, again, I argue she had), but the problem was giving her a BAD personality. If you made Mario a cross-dressing, suicidally depressed plumber who battles an addiction to painkillers, congrats, you just gave him more personality... but that's not a GOOD personality, and nobody wanted or asked for it.

Sorry, only looking to slightly offend, not seriously offend. But your example isn't bad. What do we know about Mario? The (obviously non-canon) web series "There Will Be Brawl" depicted Mario as a drunken brawler who's not above dealing drugs to pay the bills. A hero at heart trying to get by in a gritty run-down mushroom kingdom. Yeah, I didn't ask for it but that show was AWESOME. Sorry OM wasn't what you expected, but different doesn't equal bad. It only CAN equal bad. Even I wasn't expecting to see an emotionally scarred Samus with real rage and abandonment issues. After playing OM I thought it explained a lot. Violent, extremely self-sufficient, highly adaptable, some of the possible characteristics of a survivor like Samus. It also could explain the strange affection for Adam and the weird baby-crazy sudden maternal instinct.

You never played Metroid Prime 3, did you... because, um, you start the game with all your equipment. You just get NEW equipment as the game goes further along. So, yeah, there HAS been Metroid games that did this very thing... and the game was GREAT

Um, you didn't play any of the others but 1 I guess. You start with all the weapons in all of the others and break them somehow. Allright, snotty mocking voice over now. Circumstances, I admit. MP 2 and 3 I didn't play until the trilogy release. I have a tendency to think of prime as a whole itself even though 2 pulls the same tripped over her purse and broke her armor BS as all the others. Hardly counts for 3 though, the old equipment from 2 is just the new starting equipment and you can't advance until you start getting 3's powerups just like all the others. Interesting side note, MP2 is my favorite simply because it was the most challenging, but not until I got a used GC copy to play while my roomate was playing Fire Emblem on the Wii. On the Wii it was the weakest of the prime series. On GC I found it to be the best.

According to the game timeline, this would be the fourth or fifth time she's fought Ridley, sixth if you include the Metroid manga. He's come back from the dead EVERY time, sometimes as an even bigger, meaner robot cyborg alien killing machine. Beyond that, this isn't even the same Ridley; it's a clone. It doesn't even know who Samus is and just attacks everyone on sight, so it's not even the same guy that killed her parents when she was, oh, THREE years old. And it wasn't just a "little" freeze up; she laid on the ground crying and begging for help for nearly a full minute and a half, enough that it pretty much gets her friend Anthony KILLED. Again, if this happened in any other game, and Anthony wasn't around to save her, she'd have been killed, so it doesn't make sense when compared to all those previous battles.

Ok, I wasn't counting the handhelds (I've only played those emulated anyway) but 2, 5, whatever it doesn't matter. Those games were just side scrolling shooters with only really loose and sparsely thrown in story to tell you why you are "point gun arm and kill dey azz." With a story like the one they conveyed I would have complained if they didn't acknowledge her emotional damage. "That guy, yeah he killed my parents a while back. Guess I'd better mosey on over there and give him an ass full of phazer. It's clobbering time." That's somehow better? (btw sarcasm isn't a strawman, it's sarcasm) And you capitalized the age three. So, is your argument that she should have gotten over it or forgotten it by now? I watched a parental figure die when I was three. Wasn't violent (a stroke) but trust me, that stays imprinted on your brain FOREVER. You don't get over it, you just try to channel it into something positive, which for the most part I see Samus as having done. Maybe that's why I can see the positive in the story. I guess I should be glad more can't.

Off the top of my head? Yes. Keep the same general idea, but throw in an electronic device on the ship that literally disables Samus's equipment and Adam is working in the computer room to fix it. Nothing gets "authorized", Samus is still limited, Adam is proven useful, and stupid moments like the "lava level" room make sense since her powers are limited by a timing mechanic instead of one man's incompetence and distrust. There, that took me 5 seconds to think up.

Taking your word for it that it was only off the top of your head... that works way better. But then again it's only halfway different from the trip and fall device of the other games. Take away Adam doing anything to help out and that is just another "broke my stuff, gotta get more" device. But still, way better than the orders thing. But it's still the same basic framing device they've always used before. I'm not saying they made a good decision straying from the formula, but I can't fault them for trying something different. It didn't work, but they at least tried something different. Remember, Retro Studios were "trying something different" when they made a drastic switch of perspective with Prime. If the devs never ever attempted to change the formula, we never would have seen Prime in the first place.

 

[Endocrom]

A small note on the Ridley thing: Didn't the planet his body was on explode last time she killed him? [sub](I'm going off a wiki since I'm fuzzy on the timeline)[/sub] If that doesn't make an impact, I don't know what would.

 

[Warachia]

Great episode, can't wait for part 2.

But I still don't get the hate-on for other M.

"Voice was emotionless and annoying, waaaaahhhhhh." Yeah, because space bounty hunters are supposed to have rich and practiced public speaking voices, even in inner monologue. I'd have loved to hear Jen Hale again as well, good luck getting her to work for what this other lady probably got. When you give a voice to a voiceless character (other than the general grunt-ieness of Samus prior to OM) complaining about it is... the mark of the crybaby. You don't like it, too bad. I've heard way worse voice acting in games that people loved.

"She took orders from some MAN? That's not the Samus I imagined." Nail on the head... "YOU IMAGINED." Because WE DIDN'T FREAKING KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HER PAST PRIOR TO OM. She had been part of a military. Odds are then that she took orders from somebody. It's a guy... that's a problem? Would have changed the story EXACTLY NONE if that officer had been a woman (well it would have been kinda hot, but otherwise the same.) See above about giving voice to voiceless character, it's exactly the same when you give backstory to storyless character. So she's not the cocksure (or the fem equivalent if the cock- prefix doesn't work) woman version of shoot em' up Duke Nukem. Wow, they gave her an ACTUAL PERSONALITY complete with FLAWS and EMOTIONAL TRIGGERS. THOSE BASTARDS, how dare they.

"She had to wait for ORDERS to use upgrades?" It was a freakin FRAMING DEVICE. How many times does the "oops, I tripped and broke every upgrade on the suit, how clumsy of me" method work before she just comes off as a particularly uncoordinated for a world class bounty hunter? Retro Studios never came up with anything better than that stupid re-hash. So Ninja went with a different framing device. Yeah, it sucked. You have a better framing device? Kinda hard to come up with isn't it? You can't just let her keep the upgrades and weapons. Welcome to the Metroid sequel "Metroid: You Start Fully Powered Up and Can Beat it in 5 Minutes...-oid." I doubt many would spend money on that.

"Why she freeze whun see Ridluy, she kill him all teh time?" Let's see... Ridley killed her family when she was just a child, she defeats him twice (killing him the second time,) and now he's BACK FROM THE DEAD and even more pissed than before. A little freeze-up can happen at that point. It was probably a drain on the armor's energy reserves as the waste recycler and eradication system went into overdrive for a few seconds there. Totally understandable now that she actually has a personality other than just a gun arm.

"BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, BABY, ARRGGGHHH" Ok, I got nothing here. Perhaps the playtesters loaded them up with the freakin stupid complaints above and they figured they had to really overdrive a plot point home to get it thru the thick skulls of the fanbase. Yeah, it was pretty annoying.

Why hello movieBob, I would spend some time debating and countering your points but thankfully some kind people have done that already.

Argument #1 part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWfUQvn9kIs&list=FLJXsCFzDj7_vp1sGkuBhASw&index=4
Argument #1 part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHERERgMtSo&list=FLJXsCFzDj7_vp1sGkuBhASw&index=3

Argument #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZSxcUZfwCM&list=FLJXsCFzDj7_vp1sGkuBhASw&index=2

 

[The Human Torch]

Wow, that has got to be one of the crappiest trailers I ever saw. It's blander than a glass of lukewarm water.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's not just what the voice says, it's also how the voice says it. Seriously, even if the lines were good, that delivery is....Ugh.

 

[sumanai]

I dread to see part 2. The cinematic is just bad enough that the jokes could only make it palatable.

@Trishbot - Thanks for that. Nice to run into posts that make sense.

@Warachia - Thanks for the links. They were a great watch.

@Kyrian007 - Time to face some facts, you know next to nothing about storytelling. When something gets more and more story focused the quality becomes more and more important. Which is one of the reasons why the older Metroids get a pass at minor faults while the Other M doesn't. Also there's the fact that Other M, from what I can tell, is really horribly written. I mean, dear god. I didn't even realize before this video how bad it was.

Also people are more ready to hold their suspension of disbelief when it's a positive experience. For instance there's something called the "rule of cool" which basically states that something nonsensical is OK because it's "so cool". When the player character is shown as weak, the player will feel weak. If there's something else bad, like it doesn't make sense to them, they'll pay attention to it. But if the player character is shown as strong, the player will feel strong. So if there's something bad it gets ignored in favor of focusing on the good part. So PC being unrealistically strong isn't the same thing as showing them as unrealistically weak.

 

[Kyrian007]

@Kyrian007 - Time to face some facts, you know next to nothing about storytelling. When something gets more and more story focused the quality becomes more and more important. Which is one of the reasons why the older Metroids get a pass at minor faults while the Other M doesn't. Also there's the fact that Other M, from what I can tell, is really horribly written. I mean, dear god. I didn't even realize before this video how bad it was.

Also people are more ready to hold their suspension of disbelief when it's a positive experience. For instance there's something called the "rule of cool" which basically states that something nonsensical is OK because it's "so cool". When the player character is shown as weak, the player will feel weak. If there's something else bad, like it doesn't make sense to them, they'll pay attention to it. But if the player character is shown as strong, the player will feel strong. So if there's something bad it gets ignored in favor of focusing on the good part. So PC being unrealistically strong isn't the same thing as showing them as unrealistically weak.

Listen, I didn't try and make it personal to anyone, don't assume you know anything about what I know about storytelling. "More and more important" yes, but think about scale. We're talking about a video game, not oscar winning cinema. I don't have a problem with people who don't like the story. It has several flaws. The problem is that most people who say they have problems with the story, describe their problems and they are all about characterization. And having a problem with the characterization seems kind of silly when the game is trying to ESTABLISH character, and the only basis for comparison people are using is their own PROJECTION of character onto the blank slate presented in the previous games. Other games don't have to be "given a pass" for storytelling faults. They weren't presenting a story that got any more complicated than "read this so you know to shoot this thing with ice rather than fire." "Rule of cool..." that absolutely happens. Should it? Do we want developers taking that into account when they are deciding between changing the formula and innovating, or cranking out the same game over and over? Remember; without innovating and changing the formula, Retro never would have made Prime the way they did.

 

[Danzavare]

Wow, it's actually worse than everyone says it is. I am seriously wondering whether the game might be better if I played it muted without without subtitles. But I suppose it's too late, the first few lines are going to make me imagine the worst anyway. D:

 

[sumanai]

"More and more important" yes, but think about scale. We're talking about a video game, not oscar winning cinema.

So you're saying this is okay, because it's just a game?

I don't have a problem with people who don't like the story. It has several flaws.

Here's part of the problem, I got the impression you were against complaining about Other M in general, just like MovieBob.

The problem is that most people who say they have problems with the story, describe their problems and they are all about characterization. And having a problem with the characterization seems kind of silly when the game is trying to ESTABLISH character, and the only basis for comparison people are using is their own PROJECTION of character onto the blank slate presented in the previous games.

Strange, from what I understood Samus was established as a character in Metroid Fusion. And in the Prime series. And people judge a person by their actions when there's no dialogue, so one could argue that all games had some sort of narrative and therefore a characterization (watch the Extra Credits video series for that).

Other games don't have to be "given a pass" for storytelling faults. They weren't presenting a story that got any more complicated than "read this so you know to shoot this thing with ice rather than fire." "Rule of cool..." that absolutely happens. Should it?

Those things are happening, so they have to be taken into consideration when weaving a story. It's irrelevant if the behavior ("giving a pass" for a story and the reason why "Rule of Cool" works) is bad, you still have to understand them in order to make the story work for the audience.

Do we want developers taking that into account when they are deciding between changing the formula and innovating, or cranking out the same game over and over? Remember; without innovating and changing the formula, Retro never would have made Prime the way they did.

It's not about taking risks or innovating, no matter what you or MovieBob says. It's about making a visible effort. It's really difficult to believe that Other M was a serious attempt at fleshing out Samus because it is so poorly done. Hence the whining.

Seriously, watch the videos that Warachia linked to. Also first and second season Extra Credits, especially this:
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/learning-from-other-m

 

[Kyrian007]

Seriously, watch the videos that Warachia linked to.

I did. The guy lost his argument (when referencing Fusion) very early on when he said "and from this we can extrapolate that Samus..." and the rest is unimportant. See, that's what HE got out of examining her actions. But about 2 dozen other interpretations of her actions are possible at least, and he refused to see that possibility. He ignored the values he didn't want and projected the values that he wanted to believe about her and let that define her since there were no contradictory insights into her character given (until OM.) That's the same mistake all of those people made, they did not accept the possibility that they were just wrong about Samus' motivations and personality. And that possibility was always there. And Fusion (as much as everyone is pointing to it as the "defining" game) was no different, it always leaves that kind of values judgment to the player. There's always another reason she could have been making the choices she did. Prime is irrelevant in judging Samus character in OM, it happens after OM and therefore any personality it assigns her could have come after any learning experiences she may have had in OM or afterword. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with making those kind of value judgments about undefined characters, people do it all the time. The folly is finding fault with the storyteller when you find out you were wrong about the personality you projected on a blank slate character. I didn't imagine Samus as such a potentially flawed and emotionally scarred character, but then again I didn't whine and cry when I found out she was. Ultimately when a previously un-defined character is finally given a personality and backstory, one is left with 2 choices. Enjoy the story for what it is (and hope it gets better as it goes along as I have,) or pack it up and go home. If someone doesn't like Metroid anymore because they can't respect or identify with Samus I don't have a problem with that. It kills immersion when you can't identify with a character, that's why videogames are so full of silent protagonists. But finding fault with the story team for somehow "not getting the character right" when they were the first ones to define her character... that's pretty ridiculous. Despite other problems that they had with the storytelling (the framing device for removing Samus powerups and the pushing the "baby" symbolism so hard a 6 year old could understand it) one thing they couldn't get wrong was Samus' character. They were the first to define it in such detail that the player could not define it themselves any way they wanted. Maybe they shouldn't have, and just should have left her a blank slate. But I won't blame them for trying something different. Choosing not to innovate in any way would have denied us the entire Prime series and leads to the kind of thinking that produces "Game X" "numbered sequel" X's Revenge. We see far too much of that these days.

 

[Trishbot]

Seriously, watch the videos that Warachia linked to.

I did. The guy lost his argument (when referencing Fusion) very early on when he said "and from this we can extrapolate that Samus..." and the rest is unimportant.

Okay, that's not true AT ALL. Logical extrapolation from existing and observable actions does NOT become nullified simply because it takes a smidgen of brain power to make the connection.

As the Extra Credits guys stated, "Actions" are what define a character, and we've had nearly 10 Metroid games where Samus has been defined chiefly by her actions. The problem that arises is that these actions don't sync up with the personality and actions demonstrated in Other M.

See, that's what HE got out of examining her actions. But about 2 dozen other interpretations of her actions are possible at least, and he refused to see that possibility. He ignored the values he didn't want and projected the values that he wanted to believe about her and let that define her since there were no contradictory insights into her character given (until OM.)

Again, I disagree. If Samus had had, perhaps, just one solitary game from the NES, I might be inclined to agree with you, but time and time and time again, Samus has been developed and fleshed out, beyond just her dialogue and characterization in Fusion.

It is not projection to say that Samus committed genocide against the Metroid race, it is not opinion to say Samus voluntarily chose a profession of isolation and danger, it is not open to discussion whether or not she's saved entire races of creatures, killed Ridley multiple times, and blew up entire planets in her wake, it is not conjecture to say Samus has endured many of these ordeals with strength, virtue, courage, intelligence, and sheer determination. Those are not open to debate; those are FACTS, facts which are reinforced from Metroid to Metroid Prime to Prime 2 to Prime 3 to Metroid 2 to Super Metroid to Fusion.

Other M is FULL of contradictions to how Samus behaves. Ever play Zero Mission? Ever fight Ridley? How did Samus look when Ridley attacked her? Bear in mind, this was when she was extremely young, and canonically this was her first mission and first time battling Ridley.

Yeah, that doesn't look ANYTHING like a Samus that's about to curl up into a ball, have a minute-long freakout hissy fit, and freeze up in fear while begging for help. That expression says so much more than a minute-long monologue; it is one of resolution, shock, anger, defiance... it is NOT one of helplessness, crippling fear, or being intimidated.

Why do you think the very phrase "actions speak LOUDER than words" exists? If Samus says "Adam is worth respecting and following" and yet Adam does nothing to warrant this, Adam's actions speak louder than Samus's words.

That's the same mistake all of those people made, they did not accept the possibility that they were just wrong about Samus' motivations and personality. And that possibility was always there. And Fusion (as much as everyone is pointing to it as the "defining" game) was no different, it always leaves that kind of values judgment to the player. There's always another reason she could have been making the choices she did.

Again, certain behavior don't make SENSE with Samus's new personality (such as the Zero Mission scene above). I think YOU'RE the one looking too deeply into the possibility that over 25 years of character development, which nearly every Metroid fan was in agreement about, are suddenly thrown out the window with the release of one new game because we've all been mistaken and Samus was a timid little submissive dimwit this whole time.

And many things in Fusion are NOT left "to the judgment of the player". Samus outright STATES she is "someone who dislikes taking orders"; that is a character-defining trait established in Fusion, yet in Other M she bends over backwards like a trained seal to do anything and everything Adam commands her to do, when he commands her to do it, to the point of, well, burning alive for no good reason in the lava level because he didn't tell her to PROTECT herself. That's a HUGE contradiction.

Then look at the contradictions between how your own ALLIES treat her. In Metroid Prime 3, in the military, she is respected. Soldiers come up to her and go "Wow! It's an honor to meet you!" and "You're THE Samus Aran? No way!". The game even ends with the commander in charge (hey hey! A male authority figure who gives you commands!... but his commands make SENSE!) giving Samus a very respectful and grateful salute.

Now look at Other M; she's treated like a child running with scissors. Nobody trusts her. She gets picked on, talked down to, verbally and physically abused, and even at the very, very end of the game, she gets intimidated and mocked by the military doofus that shows up. That does NOT sync up with the way Samus was treated by the military in prior games.

But, even if you're right (and I don't believe you are), and we all were wrong, and this is the "real" Samus... well, then it's not an improvement in the slightest. Rather, as a girl gamer with barely a single strong female game heroine to relate to and admire, it's an enormous and regressive step back that paints Samus as a stupid Bella Swan that's in dire need of male acceptance while struggling with mommy issues and needing brave, swarthy men to keep saving her when she starts acting hysterical. So even if this was the very first game to come out, and Samus had no prior characterization, the personality they saddled her with is derisively, if unintentionally, sexist, demeaning, unlikeable, annoying, and dis-empowering, and that's regardless of gender. People would say Master Chief lost his balls if he did the same thing.

Prime is irrelevant in judging Samus character in OM, it happens after OM and therefore any personality it assigns her could have come after any learning experiences she may have had in OM or afterword.

Once again, this is incorrect. The Prime Trilogy takes place between Metroid 1 and Metroid 2, which themselves take place before Super Metroid, Fusion, and, of course, Other M. That was confirmed in the Metroid timeline in my Prime trilogy game, as well as by both Nintendo and Retro Studios, so, well, that means you have two options now.

1) Take the Prime games into consideration, which hurts your arguments that she learned from Other M to become the more mature person you JUST admitted she became in the Prime games...

or

2) Throw out the Prime games entirely, because their depiction of Samus and the views others have of her does not correlate to Other M's portrayals.

And by the way, there's nothing wrong with making those kind of value judgments about undefined characters, people do it all the time. The folly is finding fault with the storyteller when you find out you were wrong about the personality you projected on a blank slate character.

We've been over this. She was not a blank slate character. She had an actively established and explored personality in several of these past games preceding Other M. Watch the Extra Credits episode for more examples.

I didn't imagine Samus as such a potentially flawed and emotionally scarred character, but then again I didn't whine and cry when I found out she was.

Then you obviously were clueless about Samus as a character. I wouldn't cry and whine if Batman suddenly started wearing Wonder Womans's outfit and lady's make-up due to psychological trauma from his parent's death years ago, not if I had no idea who Batman was. But, well, Batman as a character is very much established, and fans would most CERTAINLY whine and cry about it because they DO know Batman's past, and a twist like that would not be widely accepted. Samus, once again, WAS defined in prior games, and these alterations should be criticized and addressed.

Ultimately when a previously un-defined character...

We've been over this... saying she was undefined is untrue and shows you either didn't play enough Metroid games or didn't pay close enough attention.

...is finally given a personality and backstory, one is left with 2 choices. Enjoy the story for what it is (and hope it gets better as it goes along as I have,) or pack it up and go home.

So, are you seriously telling me Metroid fans have two choices? Like it, or shut up and go away? You must not do much creative work, because that's the WORST way to handle feedback. If people had done that, they would have murdered the Devil May Cry series when DMC2 came out, sucked horribly, and people demanded a return of the more beloved Dante and gameplay for DMC3. When Twisted Metal went sour with TM3&TM4, fans complained bitterly, and the series returned to its successful, critically acclaimed roots with Twisted Metal Black. When Mortal Kombat went on a tailspin with terrible games, they rebounded with the newest game, to high critical and commercial success, under the motto, even, of "give the fans what they've been asking for."

If you love a brand, as I do, and love a character, such as Samus, keeping silent or pretending to like it is the WORST thing to do. As someone that adores Metroid, adores Samus, and respects Nintendo, I would say it's actually our duty to inform them directly about how we feel.

And I have. I've e-mailed them. I told them precisely what I did, and did not, like. After all, the creator of the game asked as much of me. The creator, Yoshio Sakamoto, flat-out ASKED for feedback. Your advice (enjoy it or move on) goes contrary to his wishes.

If someone doesn't like Metroid anymore because they can't respect or identify with Samus I don't have a problem with that. It kills immersion when you can't identify with a character, that's why videogames are so full of silent protagonists.

I would actually say the era of the silent protagonist is nearly gone. I can almost count on one hand all the "silent" protagonists we have left (Gordan Freeman, some Halo heroes, Link), but nearly everyone else in this modern gaming age is voiced or given personalities. The reason we continue to play games like Gears of War, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, etc., is because you can STILL identify and relate to certain characters, even if they have expressive personalities.

Again, I'm a woman... 99% of all video games star male characters. Does that mean I can't relate to Solid Snake, or immerse myself as Cloud in Final Fantasy VII, or understand and enjoy playing as a hyper-macho Gears of War meathead? Can a man never enjoy or understand a Tomb Raider game because Lara Croft is female, with a British voice, and a background different from their own?

But finding fault with the story team for somehow "not getting the character right" when they were the first ones to define her character... that's pretty ridiculous.

So's claiming that Other M was the first one to define her character. Seriously, play more Metroid games. There exists more than Other M. Refresh your memory about certain events if you have, or at least pay attention to the story between blasting monsters. Just because the games didn't have 2 hours of cutscenes and the gameplay was king did not mean the story, and Samus's character, was non-existent.

Despite other problems that they had with the storytelling (the framing device for removing Samus powerups and the pushing the "baby" symbolism so hard a 6 year old could understand it) one thing they couldn't get wrong was Samus' character.

And yet, they did. Oh, boy did they ever.

They were the first to define it in such detail that the player could not define it themselves any way they wanted.

Again, that was never the problem. She's been defined very clearly in the past in a way that players can't define certain details for themselves (such as "I dislike taking orders")and we were more than okay with that. It's the contradictions and regressive treatment she received that upset most of us.

Maybe they shouldn't have, and just should have left her a blank slate.

She wasn't a blank slate.

But I won't blame them for trying something different. Choosing not to innovate in any way would have denied us the entire Prime series and leads to the kind of thinking that produces "Game X" "numbered sequel" X's Revenge. We see far too much of that these days.

I only partially agree. I AM a game designer as my chosen profession, and innovation is the lifeblood of the industry. But there's also such a thing as reasonable innovation and unnecessary alterations.

See, for all that Prime did differently, the guts of the game are near identical to Super Metroid. The music, sound effects, non-linear exploration, puzzles, powers, enemies, upgrades, and atmosphere are pure Metroid. The way the game is played is exactly the same as Super Metroid, just from a first-person perspective. Was it a gamble? Yes, but Metroid fans such as myself enjoyed the game because it was still everything we wanted from a Metroid game. Our fears that it would become an action-driven shooter game that shunned exploration, self-discovery, speed running, and puzzle-solving were proven unfounded.

Guess what Other M is? An action-driven shooter game that shunned exploration, self-discover, speed running, and puzzle-solving in favor of a catastrophically bad narrative, bloated cutscenes, arbitrary linearity (complete with pointless dead ends and hair-pulling, pace-killing pixel-hunts), and that blasted authorization system that robbed any self of self-empowerment or reward from the game (earning a suit feature or power is always more rewarding than having some guy restrict them then give them to you piece-meal when he FEELS like it).

Sure, making a game that looks, sounds, feels, and plays unlike any Metroid game in the past is a gamble. But it was also a stupid gamble. They tossed out the things people loved, things even MODERN games took inspiration from (you'd better believe Batman: Arkham Asylum followed the Metroid formula to a fault). That's like going to Vegas to the roulette table and betting your life savings all on black. Yes, it's a gamble. Yes, that boldness is commendable. No, it's still a stupid, stupid thing to do.

Ultimately, you just echo everything Movie Bob has said in the past, and his entire argument hinges on the fact that he believes, as you seem to, that Samus has no prior characterization, that she was a blank slate, and that Other M was the bold, innovative attempt to fill the void, and thus SOMETHING is better than NOTHING.

I don't believe that. I, like others, don't believe ANY character development is better than little to none, just as I also don't believe that Samus lacked character development in the past nor that she lacked an established personality. Several people have countered and deconfirmed that misinformed perception, from the Extra Credits people, to the Elephant in the Room article, to the Heavens to Bob rebuff, to even the Prime guys at Retro Studios (who had some amazing interviews about how hard they worked to show off Samus's personality through body language, clever cutscenes, and gameplay).

This woman, this strong, smart, capable, amiable, powerful, independent, confident warrior woman with a zest for life and a penchant for doing the impossible, as has been established in prior games... this woman does not exist in Other M. And the gaming world is the lesser for her absence.

 

[Kyrian007]

Okay, that's not true AT ALL. Logical extrapolation from existing and observable actions does NOT become nullified simply because it takes a smidgen of brain power to make the connection.

As the Extra Credits guys stated, "Actions" are what define a character, and we've had nearly 10 Metroid games where Samus has been defined chiefly by her actions. The problem that arises is that these actions don't sync up with the personality and actions demonstrated in Other M.

It wasn't at all my point that it was invalidated because it took thought to come to that conclusion. He was wrong because he refused to acknowledge that other intrepretations of those judged actions were also valid.

Again, I disagree. If Samus had had, perhaps, just one solitary game from the NES, I might be inclined to agree with you, but time and time and time again, Samus has been developed and fleshed out, beyond just her dialogue and characterization in Fusion.

It is not projection to say that Samus committed genocide against the Metroid race, it is not opinion to say Samus voluntarily chose a profession of isolation and danger, it is not open to discussion whether or not she's saved entire races of creatures, killed Ridley multiple times, and blew up entire planets in her wake, it is not conjecture to say Samus has endured many of these ordeals with strength, virtue, courage, intelligence, and sheer determination. Those are not open to debate; those are FACTS, facts which are reinforced from Metroid to Metroid Prime to Prime 2 to Prime 3 to Metroid 2 to Super Metroid to Fusion.

It is indeed not projection to say Samus has committed genocide, chose to become a bounty hunter, saved lives, killed Ridley, and blew up planets. It is projection to assign any motivation for doing those things (saving self-preservation) to Samus. That's where anyone's interpretation is as good as everyone else. I'm also of the belief that Samus shows remarkable strength and courage in having accomplished the things she did. But I'm not arrogant enough to proclaim that Samus is those things and nothing more and no one else who may have a different opinion based upon an interepretation of her actions is immediately wrong.

Again, certain behavior don't make SENSE with Samus's new personality (such as the Zero Mission scene above). I think YOU'RE the one looking too deeply into the possibility that over 25 years of character development, which nearly every Metroid fan was in agreement about, are suddenly thrown out the window with the release of one new game because we've all been mistaken and Samus was a timid little submissive dimwit this whole time.

I'll just say I find there is a wider middle ground between finding out Samus isn't an emotionless robot and dismissing her as a "submissive dimwit" than everyone seems to believe. It is possible for someone to have emotions and potential psychological weaknesses (or in other words, be human) without being a "timid dimwit."

And many things in Fusion are NOT left "to the judgment of the player". Samus outright STATES she is "someone who dislikes taking orders"; that is a character-defining trait established in Fusion, yet in Other M she bends over backwards like a trained seal to do anything and everything Adam commands her to do, when he commands her to do it, to the point of, well, burning alive for no good reason in the lava level because he didn't tell her to PROTECT herself. That's a HUGE contradiction.

Too much is made about this framing device choice. It wasn't the best way to handle providing reason for exploration in the game, no. But how many more times can they get away with the "trip and broke my powerups even though I'm getting shot at and smashed up for hours in a row later and never break my powerups then, tee hee" method that is popular in the rest of the series? And the lava room? She took a little damage (oh no, she doesn't do that in every other room in the game) got to the next room, used the freakin REGENERATING health (a feature I actually DID hate) and moved on. It literally took a few seconds to get thru this one part of the game that so many people focus so much hate on. If this actually gave anyone any trouble getting thru the game... be a better gamer, it was a cakewalk.

Then look at the contradictions between how your own ALLIES treat her. In Metroid Prime 3, in the military, she is respected. Soldiers come up to her and go "Wow! It's an honor to meet you!" and "You're THE Samus Aran? No way!".

This and the other complaint about the timeline. I stand corrected, I really did think prime came later and I was wrong.

Now look at Other M; she's treated like a child running with scissors. Nobody trusts her. She gets picked on, talked down to, verbally and physically abused, and even at the very, very end of the game, she gets intimidated and mocked by the military doofus that shows up. That does NOT sync up with the way Samus was treated by the military in prior games.

To be fair, she did just blow up a planet. Trust issues and "running with scissors" kid gloves could be understandable. Picked on and talked down to? Other than Adam that stuff rolled right off of her, and we'll get to that.

But, even if you're right (and I don't believe you are), and we all were wrong, and this is the "real" Samus... well, then it's not an improvement in the slightest. Rather, as a girl gamer with barely a single strong female game heroine to relate to and admire, it's an enormous and regressive step back that paints Samus as a stupid Bella Swan that's in dire need of male acceptance while struggling with mommy issues and needing brave, swarthy men to keep saving her when she starts acting hysterical. So even if this was the very first game to come out, and Samus had no prior characterization, the personality they saddled her with is derisively, if unintentionally, sexist, demeaning, unlikeable, annoying, and dis-empowering, and that's regardless of gender. People would say Master Chief lost his balls if he did the same thing.

Just because someone suffers from some abandonment issues that doesn't justify "dire need of male acceptance while struggling with mommy issues and needing brave, swarthy men to keep saving her when she starts acting hysterical." Having respect and regard for someone who was an authority figure in your life isn't a weakness just because that person happens to be of a different gender. Maybe it's just that I'm a guy, but I didn't read any of the "sexist, demenaning, and dis-empowering stuff into any of the storyline. And I don't play Halo (well, the first one a little) but if Master Chief retired and then showed regard for and fell into old patterns of taking orders from a female higher ranked space marine, while on a mission that she was in charge of, no I wouldn't have a problem with it. Sadly, some guys would. But they are sexist, chauvinistic idiots. I don't mean to imply that the reverse is true, but I can't help it if someone would draw that conclusion.

We've been over this. She was not a blank slate character. She had an actively established and explored personality in several of these past games preceding Other M. Watch the Extra Credits episode for more examples.

I have. I still have yet to see any example where someone is not projecting the values they want onto her character in any of the other games. I remain unconvinced that she is not a blank slate.

Then you obviously were clueless about Samus as a character. I wouldn't cry and whine if Batman suddenly started wearing Wonder Womans's outfit and lady's make-up due to psychological trauma from his parent's death years ago, not if I had no idea who Batman was. But, well, Batman as a character is very much established, and fans would most CERTAINLY whine and cry about it because they DO know Batman's past, and a twist like that would not be widely accepted. Samus, once again, WAS defined in prior games, and these alterations should be criticized and addressed.

Of course I was clueless about her as a character. No one had defined it yet. Batman is a bad example, never was a blank slate (well perhaps early on in detective comics before they went into his story, but I haven't read those.) But if a comic writer wanted to transvestite the caped crusader, I'd probably laugh because that's kind of funny. I don't have as much invested in Batman as you obviously do about Samus. But yeah the fans would cry. But he isn't a blank slate.

So, are you seriously telling me Metroid fans have two choices? Like it, or shut up and go away? You must not do much creative work, because that's the WORST way to handle feedback. If people had done that, they would have murdered the Devil May Cry series when DMC2 came out, sucked horribly, and people demanded a return of the more beloved Dante and gameplay for DMC3. When Twisted Metal went sour with TM3&TM4, fans complained bitterly, and the series returned to its successful, critically acclaimed roots with Twisted Metal Black. When Mortal Kombat went on a tailspin with terrible games, they rebounded with the newest game, to high critical and commercial success, under the motto, even, of "give the fans what they've been asking for."

Maybe that's just where I'm different. I DID give up DMC after 2 and MK after 3. And Twisted Metal? Played 2, hated 3 (like everyone else) but thought I'd try again with Black and made a mistake, way worse than 2. TMB was terrible, TM is dead to me. I very rarely give a series a second chance after making a bad decision. There are so many other games it doesn't bother me to give up a series. Plenty of other games I can play. That's one of the reasons I've been surprised at all the OM hate, I'm usually the first one to totally give up on a series after a bad game.

If you love a brand, as I do, and love a character, such as Samus, keeping silent or pretending to like it is the WORST thing to do. As someone that adores Metroid, adores Samus, and respects Nintendo, I would say it's actually our duty to inform them directly about how we feel.

And I have. I've e-mailed them. I told them precisely what I did, and did not, like. After all, the creator of the game asked as much of me. The creator, Yoshio Sakamoto, flat-out ASKED for feedback.

I'm glad you did let them know how you feel. But if they were to screw up a series I really like (say Zelda or Metal Gear) I would let them know by abandoning the series and giving my money to another developer. There are plenty out there. That's my feedback.

I would actually say the era of the silent protagonist is nearly gone. I can almost count on one hand all the "silent" protagonists we have left (Gordan Freeman, some Halo heroes, Link), but nearly everyone else in this modern gaming age is voiced or given personalities. The reason we continue to play games like Gears of War, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, etc., is because you can STILL identify and relate to certain characters, even if they have expressive personalities.

Very true.

Again, I'm a woman... 99% of all video games star male characters. Does that mean I can't relate to Solid Snake, or immerse myself as Cloud in Final Fantasy VII, or understand and enjoy playing as a hyper-macho Gears of War meathead? Can a man never enjoy or understand a Tomb Raider game because Lara Croft is female, with a British voice, and a background different from their own?

Uhh yeah. I do. I had fun playing Other M and even though there were problems with the story I didn't hate it. But unfortunately I can't come up with many more games I have played with female player characters. Final Fantsy, I loved several of the female characters and identified with things like Quistis' un-requited feelings and respected Tifa for her toughness and Yuna for her resolve. There really should be more examples of strong women in videogames, I won't disagree with that. And conversely I'm sure there are things about Snake you can respect and relate to. I wish I had more examples of female characters I respected, but I'll stand by Samus. I don't feel much different about her now that her character has been defined. I just see more of the things she's overcome in her life.

So's claiming that Other M was the first one to define her character. Seriously, play more Metroid games. There exists more than Other M. Refresh your memory about certain events if you have, or at least pay attention to the story between blasting monsters. Just because the games didn't have 2 hours of cutscenes and the gameplay was king did not mean the story, and Samus's character, was non-existent.

I did play them all. I drew conclusions about her character and made projections of character on Samus as did everyone else (even though several different interpretations were possible because of lack of backstory.) I loved those games. But just because my imagination was filling in the blanks in the story, I didn't automatically dismiss the other people who may have seen it and her a little differently.

See, for all that Prime did differently, the guts of the game are near identical to Super Metroid. The music, sound effects, non-linear exploration, puzzles, powers, enemies, upgrades, and atmosphere are pure Metroid. The way the game is played is exactly the same as Super Metroid, just from a first-person perspective. Was it a gamble? Yes, but Metroid fans such as myself enjoyed the game because it was still everything we wanted from a Metroid game.

Yeah, prime was great.

Guess what Other M is? An action-driven shooter game that shunned exploration, self-discover, speed running, and puzzle-solving in favor of a catastrophically bad narrative, bloated cutscenes, arbitrary linearity (complete with pointless dead ends and hair-pulling, pace-killing pixel-hunts), and that blasted authorization system that robbed any self of self-empowerment or reward from the game (earning a suit feature or power is always more rewarding than having some guy restrict them then give them to you piece-meal when he FEELS like it).

Let's take this one-by one.
Shuns exploration. - Regenerating health was more responsible for this than any other reason.
Bad narrative. - What do you want, Hemmingway? Its a video game.
Bloated Cutscenes. - Yeah, too much and not spread out enough. The game was too short anyway. Add more game and spread out the cutscene it would have been better.
Dead ends and pixel hunts. - Pixel hunts? Didn't slow me down any. Those were easy. Dead ends? You never hit a dead end in a Metroid game... play more of them.
Authorization system. - Yeah a bad choice for a framing device. Tried something different and it didn't work.

None of those things were a dealbreaker for me.

 

[sumanai]

I find it interesting that you said I made things personal and had the gall to be presumptuous, when you keep calling everyone who complained about the characterization delusional.

 

[Navitron]

Wait, it's zeb-es? I always thought it was zeebz too.

It will always be Zeebz to me.

 

[Mike Cass]

I don't believe that. I, like others, don't believe ANY character development is better than little to none, just as I also don't believe that Samus lacked character development in the past nor that she lacked an established personality. Several people have countered and deconfirmed that misinformed perception, from the Extra Credits people, to the Elephant in the Room article, to the Heavens to Bob rebuff, to even the Prime guys at Retro Studios (who had some amazing interviews about how hard they worked to show off Samus's personality through body language, clever cutscenes, and gameplay).

Here's a problem with this, Retro Studios has shown that they have no idea what they were doing with the Prime games. Not only do the games conflict with each other but they all screw up the canon to the point that one could easily mistake them for separate off shoot canon.

In the Metroid canon, its made clear that Galactic Federation is fully capable of taking care of itself. Retro Studios acts as if the GF would implode if Samus wasn't there personally wimp everybody's bum.

Case in point, the canon manga clearly shows the GF police force using energy weapons but because RS couldn't actually come up with a good scenario for the troopers in Echos getting wiped out they just opted to give them incredibly ineffective solid rounds.

Another good example is the fact that RS gave Samus an urban myth status after she's already become the most popular and successful Hunter the GF as ever known. To make it worse, the manga shows that Samus saved the president of the GF live on intergalactic cable so how do you justify that?

There being Space Pirates out in the open on Tallon IV was a big ass plot hole that's never been explained. RS has even made it worse with one of their retcons.

And from what I understand the Space Pirate organization hasn't even remotely recovered form the galactic bet down the Federation combined forces dealt them surrounding the events of original Metroid game by the time Fusion rolls around. So why in hell are they strong enough to attack them like they did in Corruption?

Plus, Prime 2 and 3 completely ignore how the suit works.

This woman, this strong, smart, capable, amiable, powerful, independent, confident warrior woman with a zest for life and a penchant for doing the impossible, as has been established in prior games... this woman does not exist in Other M. And the gaming world is the lesser for her absence.

Except that's you talking out of your ass. Everbody can have good and bad days, and Samus was having a bad day like Batman after he loses a Robin kind of bad day.

Another thing, why doesn't anyone care that Nintendo royally screwed up Link in the last couple of games?