- Dec 8, 2010
I wouldn't go that far, I mean James Portnow I'm not. Though as an aspiring game developer with an interest in writing that has played MMOs in the past, it does break my heart that many of these games have a background-story section on their websites. Some soul had to take the time (and possibly get paid) to write that shit up only for it to go ignored. It also doesn't help that someone went into all the trouble to write up an overarching storyline about how the ***** Queen or whatever needs to be destroyed going unnoticed because, lets face it, who reads the flavour text that goes with your quests?Grand_Marquis said:[EDIT] and the reply above mine is so incredibly right, Mikodite should start consulting for MMO developers. Seriously, the amount of naivete I see in MMO developers regarding their user base and their willingness to sit through Lore dumps is flat out depressing. No, MMO developer, spending millions of dollars on awesome cutscenes will not make your game any different or more special than any other MMO. Regardless of how cool the characters are or how well directed the scene is. All MMO players want to do is level up, they don't care. Please get over it.
The big problem I have with your logic is your saying that mechanics that work fine for a choose-you-own adventure book will work in a pen-n-paper campaign. At heart, that is the real difference between a Bioware RPG like Mass Effect and something like World of Warcraft.drosalion said:People enjoy it in a single player RPG, they can learn to enjoy it in a multiplayer MMO. We simply have no way of knowing whether or not it will be successful and we're scared of it because its something completely foreign to what we're used to. They sound awesome on paper because they have great potential to be awesome, and im not saying they definitely will work or it wont be a massive flop but theres no reason it cant work - we just need to give it a chance instead of outright dismissing it before the game is even released.Mikodite said:You have no idea how badly I want you to be right.drosalion said:Yeh.. and bioware are trying to change that, by delivering the story not via a textbox but by cinematic cutscenes, and giving you actual choices that can change things in the game quite dramatically as opposed to just the choice of 'doing' or 'not doing' the quest.Mikodite said:Have you noticed that every MMORPG has some backstory or plot running in the background? It's sad, really, someone had to write all that only for the average player to ignore it, as knowledge of the backstory has no effect on the game whatsoever.drosalion said:Thats kinda the whole point of this game.. bioware want to change the way people think about MMOs by bringing story to it.Mikodite said:OK, so the storyline is about these people, a Jedi, a trooper, and a smuggler, who...
DO YOU CARE? ITS AN MMO! WHO BOTHERS WITH THE 'PLOTLINE' IN AN MMO?
Why shouldnt you be able to care about those things purely caus of the genre of the game?
Unless the 'plotline' isn't simply flavour text to go with your fetch quest, Bioware is wasting their time.
Quite simply - they're bringing the RPG back into the MMORPG, and frankly i cant wait for my mmo to actually start having some meaning and purpose. I just cant really see why people seem to be so against a genuine attempt to remove grind and increase immersion by giving all the things you do in an mmo purpose.. its like people WANT their mmo to be a dull borefest? But each to their own i guess.
The shit with the cutscenes and the dialogue choices sounds awesome on paper... then you realize that its not a single-player rpg, and you will have too many players skipping the cutscenes and mashing through the dialogue shit to get to the quest for they just want to get their numbers higher than all the numbers in the land and own everyone. I remember Guild Wars had cutscenes in it... and I remember most players opting to skip them.
You want the plotline to matter to the average player? Make the bloody thing player-generated. Have us celebrate the victory of Ray_the_Jedi who lead his squadmates to slaughter some Sith scum! Or how Nibi-Tibi has taken over Coresaunt and his first priority is to legalize death-sticks. Fuck, I would totally go down for taking on Lord_Boner of the Sith if it meant peaces in the galaxy for a few months in server.
Are they planning to do that? Planning politic systems where a player could run for senate, or be the hutt? Territory control between 'factions' that amount to whether the innocent get slaughtered or not, which changes the game world depending on who won? Will I see player names in the game's canon?
Someone accused me of not doing my homework. Tell me, are they doing that?
As for ur suggestions regarding a more sandboxey game, im sure they would appeal to some people but for me they sound completely uninteresting and i personally wouldnt enjoy them (regarding your specific examples, no, they're not doing those things). I do however enjoy a great bioware RPG and there are millions of other people who would agree with me as shown by the success of KOTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and all of their earlier games. A bioware RPG that i can play with thousands of other people in a persistant MMO world? Where do i put my credit card details..
I'm not saying TOR will be the best game ever, nor that it wont be awful, but we should atleast give it a chance. Saying it will fail when we have no basis for it or any previous game to compare it to is just stupid and childish (the 'cinematic cutscenes' in guild wars were absolutely nothing like what is in TOR, and yes ive played it). I'm HOPING for the best for TOR, because I think you and I would both agree that if it DOES work it will be amazing (you said on paper it sounds great, and theres a reason for that). Whether or not it WILL work neither of us can say right now with any more certainty beyond an outright guess.
An overarcing storyline with pretty cutscenes and choices in how you interact with an NPC sounds like an awesome idea, really. It works for WRPGs, where your choices have an effect on the game world and that, but this only works in a single player game. In a multiplayer game, for starters, the story and choices are the same... for every god dam player, and many players are smart enough to figure out that while their individual choices affect their character's path through this overarching storyline, it affects jack shit about the game world as everyone else is given the same tree to follow. At best, it just affects their build.
I also guarantee you that we aren't going to bother caring about what the NPCs think of us. I've seen games use faction systems regarding NPC groups, but this only works in a single player game as NPC input matter exponentially more than in a multiplayer game where we are more worried about what other players think of us (as in many circumstances we need PCs to help us on Quests in an MMO, whereas in a single player game we get NPCs to help us.)
That's why I mentioned the sandbox system. I mean, to relate to a past example of the choose-you-own adventure book versus the pen-paper roleplay. The former its just you and the author, deciding what path to take in their book and hoping its a result you want. The latter involves multiple people being directed by a GM of sorts. The design philosophy must change to accommodate each setting.
Now, I want to see the RPG get put back into the MMORPG as badly as the next person (I miss Anathema Online for that reason) however, this is not the solution. I mean, I don't want to pay $5-$20 a month in subscription fees and waste bandwidth connecting to a server to play a single player game. So really, either a player-driven storyline or just admit that the game is a meat-grinder like any other MMORPG... as this is the case with pnp campaigns.
If you really want to see Bioware RPG mechanics, which work fine for Mass Effect and Dragon Age, in an MMORPG I dare to ask if you really want to be playing with other people. Cuz unless I'm missing something their a waste of time.
Course, this is at the end of the day my humble opinion. It might turn out that there was more to it than that and I would owe you an apology. Or I turn out to be right and I end up screaming "I called it!" Sadly, we would have to wait and see.