Update 2: EA Dismisses Dungeon Keeper Mobile Criticism

warmachine

Hating everyone equally
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Nov 28, 2012
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This could make Apple look good. Apple are notorious for rejecting apps for reasons only they understand whilst still allowing dross and high priced in-app purchases but they don't like subversion of their systems. I doubt they'd tolerate this kind of ratings trap. EA is doing something wrong when they can make Apple's locked down iOS look good.
 

Lucane

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OuendanCyrus said:
So if they say that "Dungeon Keeper is meant to be played on the go multiple times a day with a few minutes here or there."

Doesn't that contradict the fact that it takes 4 to 24 hours to get rid of a single block? I haven't played the game myself so I wouldn't know what they're actually talking about.
Some games use real time for timers so if you start at 6am and come back at 11 am the 4 hour timer will already be done.

Metal Gear Solid 3 used that system by far the best in my opinion since when you came back from a break in playing the game certain items could go rotten or spoil and a certain boss could actually die of old age in 24 hours after 1st triggering the fight. of course you could trick the system from advancing to quickly by changing the the console's clock time but I don't know what happens if it thinks you reversed time.
 

kajinking

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blackrave said:
Barbas said:
blackrave said:
P.S. This post was fueled by almost 4y long C&C4-induced insanity. Thank you EA.
Ermaghad, you played Command aNd Conquer 4? That must have been like hang-gliding over the entrance to hell itself! :/
It wasn't the gameplay that did most damage
Or even always-online DRM
It was the story of single-player campaign :'(
Honestly as a long time fan of C&C and and only recent fan of Mass Effect I've still yet to figure out which had the worst ending (before that damn DLC which shouldn't have been required in the fist place)

Just how the hell did they take the B movie goodness that is the C&C series' cutscenes and turn it into...THAT?!
 

veloper

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Jan 20, 2009
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I'd like to thank EA for causing all this delicious nerd rage. Horny has become so much more evil.

Skewing the android user ratings is underhanded, but metacritic comes to the rescue again: 0.3 out of 10.
 

Lokoloshe

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Nov 8, 2010
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Scrumpmonkey said:
The fact that is it sitting on a high visibility part of the Google play store with over a 4 star rating is a shameful critique of the mobile gaming space.

Do your part! 1 star Dungeon Keeper today! This oppression will not stand, man!
I would but apparently the game isn't available in my region.

On a side note I'd love a list of people whom have actually paid for this. I'm sure they'd be most interested in the business oportunity I could offer them on behalf of a Nigerian Prince.
 

samaugsch

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Oct 13, 2010
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FogHornG36 said:
Ea dismisses criticism, saying, "We don't give a shit about what you think, and never have, now give us your money."
Given how much effort they put into advertising, it's more like they pretend to care until you pay them, and then pretty much ignore you.
 

mjharper

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Apr 28, 2013
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So is it me, or are most of the 5 star reviews on the Android store dated before the game even released? Like, October and November last year?

Yeah, that's not suspicious at all.
 

Infernal Lawyer

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leahy5 said:
Update 3

EA have responded to Euro Gamer about their shady ratings process.
Their response is not going to win anyone over.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-06-dungeon-keeper-androids-rating-system-filters-out-1-4-star-reviews

UPDATE 9.07pm: EA Mobile has responded to allegations that the publisher was up to something sneaky by filtering 1-4 star in-app reviews of Dungeon Keeper away from the Google Play Store so players could e-mail feeback instead. A spokesperson for the publisher offered the following statement:

We're always looking at new ways to gather player feedback so that we can continue to improve our games. The 'rate this app' feature in the Google Play version of Dungeon Keeper was designed to help us collect valuable feedback from players who don't feel the game is worth a top rating. We wanted to make it easier for more players to send us feedback directly from the game if they weren't having the best experience. Players can always continue to leave any rating they want on the Google Play Store.
You know what? I knew they'd say that. I fucking CALLED it (in my head). Hell, I even considered saying it myself to try my hand at playing devil's advocate.

Yes, EA, anyone can rate it if they want, but the fact is 1. Most people don't give enough of a shit to find their way to the page 2. You forwarded anyone who offered a 5-Star rating to the rating page and shunted everyone else to an inconvenient support ticket. You are deliberately messing with the ratings and you know it.
 

Madmonk12345

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Jun 14, 2012
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leahy5 said:
Update 3

EA have responded to Euro Gamer about their shady ratings process.
Their response is not going to win anyone over.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-06-dungeon-keeper-androids-rating-system-filters-out-1-4-star-reviews

UPDATE 9.07pm: EA Mobile has responded to allegations that the publisher was up to something sneaky by filtering 1-4 star in-app reviews of Dungeon Keeper away from the Google Play Store so players could e-mail feeback instead. A spokesperson for the publisher offered the following statement:

We're always looking at new ways to gather player feedback so that we can continue to improve our games. The 'rate this app' feature in the Google Play version of Dungeon Keeper was designed to help us collect valuable feedback from players who don't feel the game is worth a top rating. We wanted to make it easier for more players to send us feedback directly from the game if they weren't having the best experience. Players can always continue to leave any rating they want on the Google Play Store.
Wow. It takes a certain level of stupidity to defend the indefensible, but that doesn't seem to stop them.

Their PR department could use a lesson on the rule of holes.
 

scorptatious

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May 14, 2009
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Wow. That's just... Wow.

Normally I'm okay with F2P games and micro transactions. But EA really went too far with this kind of model. Say what you want about games like Angry Birds, at least I'm not forced to pay everytime I pop a few pigs. Plus, despite it's micro transactions, the stuff they offer is completely optional AND you can get each one for free daily.

Same goes for TF2. You can pretty much get all the items in that game for free if you spent enough time playing it.

I hope EA is properly punished for this.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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I'm honestly not sure if the man who sold virtual picks for real money to unlock an unknown virtual something inside of a virtual cube, with that something turning out to be a transient position in an upcoming game criticizing this makes him the worst kind of hypocrite, the most positive proof yet that EA has been going waaay too far, or both.

But then again I do notice Peter Molyneux seems to have left it as "Didn't get it quite right" and mentioned the time that it took to dig, he didn't seem to specifically address the monetization of block removal in a dungeon keeper game in of itself.... which is kind of ridiculous given that it's the central mechanic of the entire game arguably as opposed to something extra your buying.
 

Combustion Kevin

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Ratings get bought and sold all the time in the mobile market, my boss's manager pulled that on us during my last internship.

Suffice to say I'm not going for a job in that particular field anymore, I'll eventually hang myself if I do.
 

Shuu

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Sneaky motherfuckers. Don't fall back into old habits EA. You've been doing so well lately, not making a complete arse of yourself.
 

II2

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What baffles me is why they thought this game was FOR. Surely anyone unfamiliar or disinterested in the DKeeper franchise wouldn't want to spent increments of time and wads of money there, while anyone who WAS into the kooky Strategy / Management PC titles... well, their complaints echoed before the game even was available.

I suppose while I'm not surprised, it's puzzling and depressing all the same. The larger EA apparatus may be made of baby tears and blood money, but there must be enough smart creative people within the company to point out how things like this might be prone to failure, or is that 20 lashes at the lawn logo at this point?

Maybe it's worse than that. Maybe EA are right, the voices of sanity are wrong and the many heads of the hydra are making mad bank.
 

Living Contradiction

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Nov 8, 2009
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I'm just stunned. Nobody caught it.

Folks, a few years back, another stinker came out based on a nostalgic piece of video game fun. It was called Duke Nukem Forever and it stunned everyone as to its putridity. But the reaction of the <link=http://kotaku.com/5813224/the-man-who-brought-duke-nukem-forever-back-to-life-likens-it-to-a-greasy-hamburger>one of the founders of its developer truly sets up the parallel with this article.

Rough paraphrasing for those who didn't follow the link:

Critics: "Duke Nukem Forever is utterly horrible!"

Gearbox Co-Founder: "Ah, but people bought it anyway, didn't they? I guess people like to buy "horrible" games, huh?"

Kinda puts EA's wonderful statement about Dungeon Keeper Mobile in perspective, doesn't it? These guys are out there, running businesses that are supposed to be providing entertainment and they seem to be of the opinion that if people are too stupid to not buy garbage, it's not their responsibility to provide anything other than an unending parade of dumpsters.

So don't expect these arrogant nimrods to be apologetic or sympathetic to you or the people they screw over. They're going to keep doing it and justifying it with their profits (any guesses on how much this train wreck cost to produce? I know the numbers will never be published but if it was more than a million, EA got robbed and thank gods they did) until everyone smartens up and stops buying what they're selling.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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II2 said:
What baffles me is why they thought this game was FOR. Surely anyone unfamiliar or disinterested in the DKeeper franchise wouldn't want to spent increments of time and wads of money there, while anyone who WAS into the kooky Strategy / Management PC titles... well, their complaints echoed before the game even was available.

I suppose while I'm not surprised, it's puzzling and depressing all the same. The larger EA apparatus may be made of baby tears and blood money, but there must be enough smart creative people within the company to point out how things like this might be prone to failure, or is that 20 lashes at the lawn logo at this point?

Maybe it's worse than that. Maybe EA are right, the voices of sanity are wrong and the many heads of the hydra are making mad bank.
I've been putting some thought into that myself. I think the target audience is middle aged nerds with both lots of money and lots of nostalgia. The thing is that Dungeon Keeper isn't the first game like this. Another infamous one that got a lot of attention recently was "Star Trek: Trexels" which generated a lot of the same furor and raised the question of "who is this game for". It also garnered a lot of the same defenses in that it's locking of content behind huge timers that could only be overcome with real money (in Trexel's case it has to do with accumulating resources to unlock missions), and the same defense that people complaining about this were "playing it wrong" since the game was intended to be checked in on a couple of times a day like a virtual pet or whatever, rather than actually played seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_AgjWkNGew

That right there pretty much covers it. I think it's also been mentioned on The Escapist a couple of times before (heck this is probably where I heard about it).


At any rate the bottom line is that this whole "popular nerd IP turned into a low-grade mobile game that requires scads of cash constantly pumped into it to be played anything like the game it's supposed to be, but defended as some kind of virtual pet/management sim hybrid" is not new, as I get the impression "Trexels" wasn't even the first. EA even seems to be kind of late in jumping into this.

If I had to guess the idea here is that the target audience are people who can afford to play these games, and do so in part simply because they can. There is a lot of elitism among nerds, and the idea is that the guy who say plays "Trexels" is better than you because he can do it and you can't. It would not be the first product of it's kind, yet it would be the first time we've seen this on mobile gaming platforms. Basically your nerd who raves about things like Dungeon Keeper, can feel more "elite" because he can pay a dollar a block or whatever to build a dungeon on his mobile phone, where other nerds who have not succeeded as well cannot do so, and can only QQ about it... sort of like little orphan boys looking sadly at toy stores and what kids with parents can have in a Charles Dickens novel.

To be honest I do not do a lot of mobile gaming, simply put all the ones I'm interested in trying aren't out for the Kindle, and a Smartphone/iPhone is something I have chosen to do without. However from what I have on the Kindle (which cannot play that bloody Ultima game I've been drooling over) it seems that these heavily microtransaction oriented "freemium" games seem to be on the high end of the spectrum for mobile games, which seems to be part of the lure and presumably why they would be a status symbol.

Mostly in thinking about it I've tried to put it into the context of things that have come before. While it was longer ago than most Escapist users have been following games (and probably long before they were born) we indeed DID see something vaguely like this before. Back when personal telecommunications was in it's infancy and people were being nerds with their 300 - 1200 baud modems (I remember when I was all excited to upgrade to 2400 baud), most online gaming took place on BBS systems with games like "Yankee Trader", "Land Of Devestation", "Arena", "Sinbaud", and of course the ever present and popular "Trade Wars" which was the spiritual predecessor to EVE. Most of these games could only be played by one person at a time but the program would save the moves of each player who had so many turns per day, so potentially dozens of people could be playing and competing with each other in the same game, especially on a BBS that might have more than one phone line hooked into it.... at least that is what most nerds did online for gaming and kicks (including me). Along with that you of course had premium services, which were much more advanced than BBS systems, and required their own special clients just to login to. AoL, CompuServe, Prodigy, Q-Link, PC-Link and others, and these sites all had their own special games that were far more advanced than anything BBSes could run, ranging from professional grade text MUDs, to things like the forgotten "Club Cairbe" which ran over Q-link and could quite possibly be considered the first actual graphical MMO. The thing is the services that ran these games didn't charge you monthy fees, or even by the hour (usually), they charged by the minute for premium time. This means someone could basically be paying like $1.00 per minute to run around Club Cairbe and chat with people while engaging in scavenger hunts, which was even more money back then than it is now. The thing is people actually DID this, and enough did it in order for there to be multiple services of this type all fighting with each other for a while. I was a kid at the time so all I could do is sit there and boggle at how cool some of these games were when I actually heard about them or ran into someone who spent the money to play them for a bit. Understanding how crazy this was, I did indeed ask why someone would pay $1 a minute to run around Club Cairbe, swap heads around from vending machines, and do gender reversals to themselves in "The Swedish Room" while "adventuring" with the so called "Adventurers guild" and maybe occasionally harassing someone with a Jump Wand the answer was pretty much "because I can, and not many other people can either". That was kind of the thing, if you were there you were sort of nerd elite, either someone who was a rich nerd, or so dedicated to things nerds like that you were literally willing to break yourself financially to be at the peak.


The point of my rambling is that the only thing that these games could possibly be, given their success, is some kind of crazy status symbol like that which EA and similar companies are more than willing to cater to, much like the old premium services did with a lot of their stuff. That's why you keep seeing it happening, despite the backlash from regular gamers, the gaming media, and everyone else, and why people are still buying it. The only way I could think to justify Dungeon Keeper in this form would be if the point of it is so two rich nerds who happen to be doctors or whatever could both show off their respective dungeons and "how nerdy they are" by how much money they spent and how much time they put into it doing so. The complaints of someone like Jim Sterling going "70 bloody pounds for 14000 Gems, and that's a "best value"?!?!?!?" is sort of the point, the people paying that do so specifically because someone like Jim Sterling can't afford to pay that just to show off how trivial such an expense is to his friends. Sort of like how if you hung out in Club Cairbe for a couple of hours, you just blew $120 (or whatever it was) you achieved nothing really except to show that you can do it, and are nerdy enough to do it there.