[UPDATE] Feds Take Down Megaupload

[Awsomeotaku]

Now where will I watch movies?

 

[punipunipyo]

Well... NOW we know that they didn't REALLY need SOPA to "raid" a "suspicious pirates... the left over thoughts are now... why do they need SOPA? Is it needed for "none Piracy reason? like... say... maybe to shut down/silence negative meta critics?

 

[Irridium]

What about the millions that used these sites for perfectly legal means? The type of people that far outweighed the pirates?

Do you have any statistics to support that statement?

I've been asking the same thing for years when companies say they keep losing millions to piracy. I think it's safe to say we're both blowing smoke. Though quite a bit of people did use Megaupload and its various for non-illegal means. Not sure on exact number, but I'm willing to bet it was used for legal means more than illegal. I really should stop doing that though. But it's frustrating to see the MPAA/RIAA and the like use the same arguments without providing facts and getting laws passed.

I presume the feds thought to actually collect proof from the site before closing it down. The feds won't move to arrest someone unless they are, without a doubt, able to send the guys down with what they have. We can't check, but they would have. It would be very costly for the feds to arrest someone and close down their business, only with a spurious accusation.

EDIT: and as for preventing the infringing uploads. Yes, it is exceptionally difficult for services to prevent it from happening, and that is accepted to some degree (as long as the business appears to be doing everything it can). Apparently Megaupload failed to meet that standard, along with committing various other crimes. Even if it is impossible to stop piracy, that doesn't exhonerate the webservers. They still have to accept the responsibility for not preventing the piracy, and the consequences that come with it. That is the unfortunate burden of running such a business.

Perhaps. But in most cases of copyright infringement, it's the accused who needs to prove their innocence, as opposed to the accuser. You can see this most brazenly with youtube video takedowns, where the accused ALWAYS has to prove his/her innocence. Which is the opposite of any other crime where the accused must provide the proof. For more specific cases, well there was the time when that popular hip-hop blog was wrongly blocked for over a year [http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/12/ice-admits-months-long-seizure-of-music-blog-was-a-mistake.ars]. So collecting evidence before accusing isn't exactly what happens much in copyright infringement cases. At least on the internet.

There's also the case of Universal vs. Sony [http://w2.eff.org/legal/cases/betamax/], when Universal sued Sony because the Betamax could be used for copyright infringement. The Surpreme Court of the United States stated that a company is not liable for creating a piece of technology that might be used for infringing purposes, so long as the technology is capable of substantial non-infringing uses.

But that was for VCR's and physical pieces of tech. What about a P2P site like Megaupload?

Well, that would most likely fall under the MGM vs. Grokster [https://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/MGM_v_Grokster/] case. Where they would possibly be held liable for for infringement... if they created Megaupload it with the intention of copyright infringement. And considering that this never seemed to be one of their goals... not to mention the recent video of music stars endorsing the ways the site can be used legally, they should be fine.

Of course, the MGM vs Grokster case was for P2P software. I don't know if websites will fall under that. I'd imagine they would, though. So in terms of the copyright infringement accusations, they should not be charged since what they're doing is perfectly legal.

In terms of all the other accusations, like racketeering, well I suppose we'll see if there's any merit to those accusations in the future.

 

[ACman]

What I don't think is posted here but is really ridiculous is that if found guilty, these people will be facing a 55 year sentence.

That's right. 55 YEARS

So someone who commits murder and ends another LIFE can pay a lot less of a price than this? Awesome. The world has officially gone snooker loopy.

Part of me thinks this shutdown is a response to the SOPA and PIPA protests yesterday. A way of saying "well, we can and will do it, regardless."

Lies. Whether to put us on the criminal's side or not... probably.

The max they can get is 20.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/justice-fbi-crack-megaupload/story?id=15396526#.TxidwPnNlGU

Why is there an imprisonment penalty on this at all?

If you violate someone's copyright then you should owe damages and if you then refuse to pay damages then there should be the option of imprisonment.

It is outragous that the United States feels that draconian legislation that it passes should apply across the globe co-opting everyone's law enforcement to enforce it.

They did this with drugs; now they are doing it with this. If you want your laws to apply oveseas America give us a vote or fuck off.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Aaaaaaaand the retaliation has already begun...

http://rt.com/usa/news/anonymous-doj-universal-sopa-235/

 

[Uber Evil]

This little quote just makes me shake my head.

"The fact is that the vast majority of Mega's Internet traffic is legitimate, and we are here to stay. If the content industry would like to take advantage of our popularity, we are happy to enter into a dialogue. We have some good ideas. Please get in touch."

It's the same as Clinton saying he tried marijuana but didn't inhale, or a girl being almost pregnant. You don't erase the illegality by being mostly legitimate. If that was true none of the mafia gangs would have ever been touched by the Feds.
If you can't police your own house, someone else will with worse consequences. Trying to act like you were mostly legit doesn't cut the cake. You are either all legit, or you are not.

What about Youtube then? Their webtraffic is mostly legitimate, but they do have some infringing content. Should they be shut down.

 

[Omnific One]

I don't know about you guys, but I think it's high time they stopped with the overpriced TV episodes. No way in hell I'm paying a couple dollars to watch an episode from years ago. Cheapen it up (maybe purchase for $.25 for a single download (bandwidth for a TV show in 720p is about 3-5 cents, depending on the server situation), or make it free and do standard advertising.

 

[Akimoto]

So, who suspects that the lawsuit was a precursor to shutting down Megaupload?

TO SUMMARIZE:
The United States government just took down an international website and filed criminal charges against the parties involved EXCLUDING THE AMERICAN CEO.

Why do I find this horribly funny? (rhetorical)

Gallows humor

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Snip for space

I'd like to know the stats just out of curiosity.

Pure conjecture on my part, but I can't see how legal users could even begin to approach pirates on sites like MU, RS, BT, MF, etc. Never seen any solid numbers though, so who knows?

No, really--who knows? I want to ask them

 

[Edible Avatar]

Wow, maybe they just wanted to see how a SOPA style raid would go. I guess they figured nothing would come of it...and I guess nothing did. Still...I'd be pissed if I couldn't post my videos on youtube (not that they're any good) because people like to post "Fullmetal Alchemist part 3/5" in low quality.

Especially since Fullmetal Alchemist is streamed for free on Hulu in high quality!

OT: Sooooooo one of the reasons we banded against SOPA was to prevent them from doing something they already could do?

Hmm, i suppose so.

Spoiler

OT: Well why has'nt the government done this earlier? Why do it at a time when Internet freedom is gaining momentum?

 

[Prof. Monkeypox]

And thus there was no more piracy, for ever. The end!

 

[JoshuaMadoc]

Awexsome's line of thinking in this topic is basically to ask everybody who shares files on the internet to kill themselves and set themselves on fire, after saying good riddance to Megaupload.

So... yeah. Pointless to argue against him at this point.

I've said it before, but as the above guy touches on, so much piracy is TV and movies that just aren't available.

Thanks for bringing that up. Western nations wouldn't give two fucks about gems like Endhiran, nor would they even allow Doraemon to come to their shelves for no other reason than to have American products muscle competition out of their shores.

Also, Australia doesn't even sell Anito, a very very commendable effort by a bunch of Filipino guys trying to make a homebrewed CRPG for the PC.

 

[TheVioletBandit]

Just to clarify, the mega upload employees live in New Zealand?
Just another example of The American Government's Cultural imperialism; they have to impose their national laws on the rest of the world.

That the New Zealand government is happy enough to go along with it makes them just as much to blame.

 

[Baldr]

What about Youtube then? Their webtraffic is mostly legitimate, but they do have some infringing content. Should they be shut down.

The difference is that Youtube takes significant strides to help curb infringement through several filters and other means. MegaUpload decided not to be that responsible, they decided to line their own pockets from infringement instead. Very definition of Corporate Greed.

 

[Astoria]

What I don't think is posted here but is really ridiculous is that if found guilty, these people will be facing a 55 year sentence.

That's right. 55 YEARS

...please tell me you're joking. There are murders who get lesser sentences than that.

This is not about money or piracy anymore, I swear this is a power trip by powerful Americans who are starting to realise they aren't the most powerful country anymore. Do they even need SOPA and PIPA if they can do this kind of thing anyway? And again, if this is not an American site then why the hell are they sticking their noses in it!

 

[Zeetchmen]

Just goes to show you that money runs the government, not the people.

 

[Irridium]

Snip for space

I'd like to know the stats just out of curiosity.

Pure conjecture on my part, but I can't see how legal users could even begin to approach pirates on sites like MU, RS, BT, MF, etc. Never seen any solid numbers though, so who knows?

No, really--who knows? I want to ask them

People have been asking for hard stats for this sort of thing for ages. Honestly, I doubt many used Megaupload for piracy, since there's far more, better sites. I say that as someone who used Megaupload for trying to download some mods. It wasn't that fun. I doubt any pirate would put up with it. And I doubt they'd have a subscription, because, well, pirates. They're not exactly there to buy anything.

Maybe Megaupload had some stats. It sounds like they did, what with them saying the vast majority of their traffic is legitimate. Probably would have been better if they released those stats.

So far the best we got is when downloads go "up" and "down" for something. Makes gauging the amount of legitimate people and/or pirates pretty much impossible.

 

[Orekoya]

snip

People use postal service for crime! Close it all down!
Criminals use cars to escape from crimesceense, or kill other people with them! Destroy all the cars and sue the car manufacturers for not taking better care!
Terrorists use planes to terrorize people! Blow up all the airplanes and imprison everyone who works for the airlines!
Do I have to go on?

This is NEVER an excuse for something like this. Megaupload was never intendet for piracy. They delete illegal files, just like Youtube for example. But do you have any idea of the amount of data that people upload there daily? NO ONE has the manpower to check every. single. file.

Also, could you give me the source for your claim that they "allowed" it to happen?

"Allow" probably isn't the correct term. Concede, maybe? As in they did a poor job of preventing pirated files (the site is festooned with them). Of course it is very difficult to stop pirating, but it seems to me that if you are going to start a file sharing webservice, or a video service like youtube, policing is a responsibility you have to accept, along with the consequences for failing to live up to that big responsibility. Youtube is in the same boat, and often regularly criticised for failing to prevent copywrited material. Though I don't know if they are likely to be accused of "money laundering" anytime soon.

meanwhile, it is the feds responsibility to prevent crimes. The only plausible way they can do that with megaupload is to stop the site entirely. We blame them for basically punishing the many perfectly innocent users along with the pirates, but it seems to me that there is very little recourse for the situation. They have to act, because the owners of megaupload failed to, and they only really have one choice. Either they leave the website open and allow everything to continue, or they stop the website all together. This isn't the same as get-away drivers, whom the FBI have the luxury of going after on an individual basis. Online piracy, by its very nature, involves many more culprits and is far harder to control. The FBI's tactic is similar to closing a sorting office, in response to a mass anthrax mail dump: the only way to stop those letters is to hold down the entire office until the problem is dealt with. Likewise, if there is a suspected terrorist loose in an airport, they would ground all the planes and inconvenience every passenger if they have to.

If the feds allow a service to continue, knowing full well that there are individuals hidden in that business committing serious crimes, then the feds have to take responsibility for their inaction, and suffer the consequences if bad things happen as a result. There is some nuance to the examples you gave, and to this particular situation as well.

The problem with such logic is that you're saying its okay for them to chop down a tree in a forest for having a branch they didn't like so long as they really didn't like it. As logical as you want to reason this out, allowing officials to progress down this path will only end in a clear cut field.

 

[Caverat]

Wow, people get pissed when you make it slightly less convenient to access other people's copyrighted intellectual property for free. Sure, legitimate business was conducted using megaupload's service.

Saying most of its traffic was legitimate though? Yeah, and most mp3s on ipods are legitimately purchased through itunes.

I viewed shows that were stored on megaupload, most (if not all) were unavailable to me otherwise. I'm not really sure, the cable package I buy doesn't include every channel, so, there might be some channel(s) available that play the shows I enjoy. I didn't care enough to look closely.

Despite how it sucks MU is down, I am in no way entitled to view those programs. No one is. If there isn't a legal means for me to view those programs (Regardless of reasons), that is not justification to view them illegally. There is nothing else to say in regards to that. I did it anyway because I don't give a shit, no need to sprout the utter bullshit that is trying to justify it in anyway.

I understand that people pitch a fit when they lose access to something they feel entitled to, and the silly mental/argumentative hoops they will jump through at great length to make it seem that isn't why they're complaining.

But it is, you aren't entitled to someone else's copyrighted material.

Get over it.

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

AND Mega Video!?

That was my source of Anime streaming!!!

God damn you America!