Update: GTA V Coming to PC, Says Nvidia

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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Adon Cabre said:
There's no way to counter your mess of a rebutal, since you're not extending your knowledge to that one hypothetical.

WHAT WOULD BUSINESS PRACTICES LOOK LIKE ON AN OPEN PLATFORM PC ONLY INDUSTRY.
At the same time, focusing on the hypothetical is like focusing on "WHAT IF THE WORLD WAS GOING TO END TOMORROW".
1. Its not going to happen.
2. You'd need more context than that to be able to make any meaningful arguments or judgements.
Whilst I skirted around that specific point, as it is rather impossible to know what the market would be like if there was only the PC, I did argue against your predictions on that point, which you claim work off economics but honestly sound a lot like paranoia or a superiority complex for consoles.

It doesn't mean that consoles are better; I was saying that consoles play a much more significant role than most PC enthusiasts could even imagine. I've put up numbers in other post about these patterns on this thread -- not that they're hard to find.
You'll find I quoted your numbers, and us PC enthusiasts can and do imagine the influence of consoles in the industry. They're the reason exclusives exist, they're the reason games cost $60, they're the reason companies like Microsoft tried to force paid multiplayer into their games with GFWL, and they're the reason for a lot of the industry's business practices, most of which a lot of us are against.

I don't push PC gaming down; I push down PC elitism and ignorance by saying that consoles have a large influence on that part of the industry. I don't care if people accept it or not; but the policies and practices are just what I'd perceive for a lone, wild-west PC market.
And this is the point; What you perceive. The PC market is not the wild-west. Its more akin to Tokyo, or what Tokyo is stereotypically perceived as anyway; beautiful, technologically forward, and very different to its counterparts in the western [Or for the PC-Console debate, console] world. There are definitely dangers there, but there are also dangers in the console market. Neither is inherently more dangerous than the other, and honestly I'm more inclined to say the PC market is at less of a risk because of pirates and crackers - Companies can't try serious BS as they know the game won't be bought, it'll be cracked and downloaded instead. This is the centrepoint of Steam's approach; Don't get in the consumer's way, be a necessity that they want to use by offering a better service than the pirates, and most people will use you instead of the pirates. And it works.

Case in point, Steam serves the community very well because console publishers -- Ubisoft, EA, Bethesda, etc... -- can rely on its services to provide their content to a massive audience. Ubisoft even graciously goes along with Steam's sales of it's VERY EXPENSIVE triple-A titles because they've already made their money on the console.

But if consoles no longer existed, they'd have to concentrate their costs like Apple with its own means of distribution. In other words, they would control distribution of their content through their own self-produced venues, or they would be very selective about who distributes their games -- i.e the policies of sale.
And this is where your argument and economics talk falls apart, as I pointed out.
Sales are not done because a company has earned enough money on consoles. A company doesn't want "Enough" money. It wants as much money as it can get its hands on. Rule 1 of economics.
As such, if they would lose money from these sales, publishers wouldn't allow it. However, they don't lose money at all on these sales. They gain a load. As I pointed out in the last post, the games on Steam cost NOTHING to distribute at all. If they sell the game for 50c, its a profit. Most of the time they sell for more than that, and they sell by the truckload, because people see they're cheap and buy them. It exploits people's impulse buying weakness, and earns a load of cash. This is why publishers allow it to happen. Even after the sales end and the prices return to full, the publicity increases the sales of their games, earning them bucket loads more money. It has nothing to do with having made their money on the console, its them milking every last cent out of the PC audience that does the trick.
And publishers already are selective about who sells their games; Brick and mortar stores, or Steam - sometimes with their own platform included if they have one. Steam has integrated itself as an excellent option for most publishers to publish through for the PC as it is their DRM, so they don't have to spend money on that, it distributes the game itself, so they need no money for that, it handles patches for the games and updates and DLC, so no money needs to be spent on that, and the don't need to pay to run Steam's servers. They just let Steam take some of their profits, and half their expenses disappear. This is why there would not be an individual platform for each publisher. Steam just makes things easier.

Triple-A titles and other expensive productions would never, ever be so cheap in sales. And DRM policies would be far worse than what's hammering the PC market today.

PC games, excluding MMO's, have all of their their benefits because of the console market.
And this is where you are wrong.
PC has its benefits because of its own environment;
As digital distribution is very strong on the PC, publishers can sell games with no overhead on distribution, and earn a profit from 50c. Or they can sell them for $60 and earn a lot more profit, and drop it down to $10 for a sale to bring in a boat load of additional customers when it starts to sell poorly. You can't do that on a console because of the physical medium. Physical disks cost money to transport, make, store and sell. That is added onto console game costs. As is a 'tax' for when that game is sold second hand - its factored into the original game's price whereas PC doesn't have to worry about that. Why do console digital downloads not have outrageous sales? Because Gamestop would stop selling new console games, only second hand, and cut publishers completely out of the deal there, cutting their profits massively. This doesn't happen on PC as the PC gamestop section sells 80% Steam vouchers, and is small anyway - PC is mostly DD. This is why there are cheap games and sales on PC, not because consoles earn enough money for publishers.
DRM policies are not worse than they are currently as publishers know PC players will not buy their games if they make them worse. Diablo III, Sim City - sold well initially on hype, now they'll be crashing and burning with few sales thanks to their DRM and poor quality. Bioshock Infinite? Sold well initially on hype, and will continue to sell fairly well and be able to sell DLC effectively thanks to its only DRM being Steam. If publishers put terrible DRM on their games, gamers will just buy other games - whether from other major publishers, or from indie developers, or they may even illegally acquire them if possible. This is why PC games rarely have terrible DRM - they wouldn't sell, and Steam does DRM that consumers accept too, so no need to pump more money into DRM when there's another viable option.
Modding, Unique genres of games, better performance and graphics - none of these are affected by consoles either. You claim to talk about a hypothetical PC only world, but you don't seem to understand the PC world as it is at the moment. Honestly, I'd be more scared about a console-only world where MS and Sony control everything and can milk consumers for every last cent if they want than a PC only world where there is always another option available. Of course, such a dystopian gaming future would never actually occur as publishers would quickly realise that they were on their way to another great crash like that in '83 when people stopped buying their games.
 

Rellik San

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Adon Cabre said:
Harken back to the context of my quote. Gaming PC or gaming rig. Gaming PC, be it laptop, or pre-built, should run you up at least $1000.

Gaming rig obviously means that you can upgrade for the sake of visual performance. I don't think it's very cool to build a rig and only get meager settings.

You have great points, and I have considered all of them myself for the possibility of going PC; but the problem is that I wouldn't actually that content, since license to the software is only leased to me, and not the game itself.

And that's a deal breaker. Every time I've been tempted to build or buy something truly spec worthy, I realize that I will not be able to play my content without someone else's permission.
You know you can build a very capable PC for a few hundred bucks right?

Hell my processor is 7 years old and still pretty much runs anything I throw at it with ease, my graphics card was about $90 and I can play the majority of games on high settings, it's not as expensive as you'd think.

And whilst true enough with the licensing thing, the same could be said of Console games. Do you truly own the game? Sure you own the physical media it's stored upon, but can you modify the games content to your hearts content? No you can't, so you can't even really say you own the game.

Hell, all games come with a EULA, it's just on consoles you find it located within the manual not on the installation screen.
 

Amir Kondori

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Atmos Duality said:
Amir Kondori said:
There is no might about it, it will definitely come out on PC, that easily represents over 1 million sales for them on that platform alone, for a game already complete they won't pass up that extra money, extra chances at selling DLC, etc. It will just be a matter of time.
I need to work on my sarcasm.
Typically, when I see a PC port from Rockstar, it's littered with bugs, poor coding and bad controls.

They're definitely going to go ahead with a port, if only because Rockstar has been hurting for cash in recent years.
I'm just not that stoked about it yet.

For me the story isn't that sad, as there is a glut of awesome games out on PC. I literally do not have enough time to play all the games I want to. There are games I own that I am pretty sure I will never have the time to play through. So timed console exclusives like this don't bug me at all.
I can barely find much that interests me, honestly. Or rather, there's a bunch of stuff I'm looking forward to, but they all just keep hiding in the nebulous realm of "Coming Soon" or keep getting pushed back.

My summer games list has been...Warframe Beta, Shadowrun Returns...and that's it.
If you can't find games that interest you then you are not looking hard enough.

Games I have had the time to play this year:
More Skyrim, Dawn of War 2, Hotline Miami, Shadow Warrior re-release, Torchlight 2, Super Hexagon (PC version), Kerbal Space Program, Fallout 3&NV, Dungeons of Dredmor, L4D2, Eador Master of the Broken World, Mount and Blade, Borderlands 2, Gun Point, King's Bounty, Jamestown, Bioshock Infinite, Rayman Origins and Gunpoint. I am sure I am forgetting some.

There are many other games I have purchased and want to play but haven't had the time. Titles like The Swapper, Sword of the Stars: The Pit, Thomas Was Alone, Sins of a Solar Empire, Civilization V, Saints Row the Third, Total War 2 Shogun, Fez, Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon, Fallen Enchantress, Evil Genius, Dungeon Defenders, Crusader King's II, A Valley Without Wind 2, Zeno Clash 2, and I could go on but I don't want to make this post too crazy long.

Those are just games from my Steam library. There is a bunch of stuff from GOG.com I haven't had the time to touch. There are so many great games today available on PC that it should be impossible to go without a good game.
 

Adon Cabre

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Doom972 said:
Adon Cabre said:
Doom972 said:
Adon Cabre said:
Doom972 said:
Adon Cabre said:
Doom972 said:
Not very surprising. Now all that remains is to wait and see if it's as good as the videos show.

Adon Cabre said:
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Permalink


snip
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So? Those same casuals you speak of were using mid-range PCs with on-board graphics chips before laptops became that popular. Those same casuals would also not get a console because they'd rather just game on their tablet.

Also, laptops are slowly becoming useless because of tablets and the cheaper and more comfortable desktops seem like a better choice for home computers because of it.
Casuals know what they're getting on a tablet, and they know what they're getting on a console. And I don't know if that's just your opinion, but everyone I talk to wants a laptop to be able to choose their place of work in their home.

The idea of a workstation is changing. People hate being ball-and-chained to one room because of a desktop. That's just boring in this mobile world.
What does work have to do with gaming? With your logic, the PS Vita would be should be far more popular than the PS3 (and it isn't). Also, we're talking about casuals - people who never seriously got into gaming. They can barely hold a controller and would rather play mouse-only browser games or touchscreen games anyway.

Does everyone you talk to do a significant amount of their work from home? Seems a bit weird. Unless you didn't mean actual work, but non-gaming activities.
That's quite a superior attitude toward casuals; but maybe you have them confused with beginners. And most people own PC's for leisure, not for work; and they want to be able to take it anywhere in their house. The days of the Desktop Tower are over.
Not really. This is the definition of casuals I'm familiar with. If you meant something else, it wasn't clear enough.

Looks like you're just going to repeat yourself instead of making any arguments, so I'm ending this conversation.
That's because you haven't actually read much of this thread. All of your points were made in earlier posts that I commented on; and as I'm not allowed to re-post, you have to go back to the first page and read the conversation.
 

Adon Cabre

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Rellik San said:
Adon Cabre said:
Harken back to the context of my quote. Gaming PC or gaming rig. Gaming PC, be it laptop, or pre-built, should run you up at least $1000.

Gaming rig obviously means that you can upgrade for the sake of visual performance. I don't think it's very cool to build a rig and only get meager settings.

You have great points, and I have considered all of them myself for the possibility of going PC; but the problem is that I wouldn't actually that content, since license to the software is only leased to me, and not the game itself.

And that's a deal breaker. Every time I've been tempted to build or buy something truly spec worthy, I realize that I will not be able to play my content without someone else's permission.
You know you can build a very capable PC for a few hundred bucks right?

Hell my processor is 7 years old and still pretty much runs anything I throw at it with ease, my graphics card was about $90 and I can play the majority of games on high settings, it's not as expensive as you'd think.

And whilst true enough with the licensing thing, the same could be said of Console games. Do you truly own the game? Sure you own the physical media it's stored upon, but can you modify the games content to your hearts content? No you can't, so you can't even really say you own the game.

Hell, all games come with a EULA, it's just on consoles you find it located within the manual not on the installation screen.
Let's be honest, you and I know that licensing and disk based ownership are nothing alike, because at the end of the day, you have to verify your purchase over and again -- registering the software (two or three times even), or logging into an account.

That's just too much work; and as I consider gaming to be hassle free, then much like a novel, I should be able to plop down on a couch, slip the disk in and be on my happy way.

(What the hell do I care about modding; that's another topic altogether.)

And as for building a PC, my first post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.825163-Update-GTA-V-Coming-to-PC-Says-Nvidia#20010785] contextualizes all of this fallout. PC building can have nothing to do with Gaming. They can be two different hobbies, you know.
 

Adon Cabre

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Dr. Pepper Unlimited said:
Adon Cabre said:
Desktops will be non-existance for most of the first world countries in three years.
I enjoyed the conversation you folks were having until I got to this. Holy tin foil hat...

Adorable. :3

Anyway, I suppose I'll just wait and see on this game. I didn't get into GTA IV as much as I thought I would. I don't think I ever even beat it, so hopefully GTA V will reanimate some of my interest back into the franchise.
In cased you missed it, here's why. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.825163-Update-GTA-V-Coming-to-PC-Says-Nvidia#20010785]
 

TAdamson

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Steven Bogos said:
Update: Sorry to disappoint guys, but it looks like this was just a slip-of-the-tongue on Nvidia's part. It has offered the following statement:

"Please note, during our Thursday's earnings call, our investor relations team provided a list of important games that gamers are looking forward to on PC this fall, and included Grand Theft Auto V on that list. This statement was made with the intent of expressing enthusiasm for the games industry in general, and was not intended to represent specific knowledge possessed by NVIDIA. NVIDIA does not have information on any possible PC version release of Grand Theft Auto or its availability. We deeply regret the error."

Source: Forbes [http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2013/08/12/nvidia-claims-grand-theft-auto-v-coming-to-pc-this-fall/] (Thanks Shadow-Phoenix!)

Permalink
Then change the headline on your website, for pity's sake.

The headline is now completely misinforming. Why is it still as it is?
 

evilneko

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Jun 16, 2011
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Adon Cabre said:
Desktops will be non-existance for most of the first world countries in three years. Everyone will own a laptop, with smaller CPU processors and only integrated graphics.

What happens to PC gaming then?

Even more Niche.
I find this just as ridiculous as your other prognostications. Do you realize how many times that same prediction has been made?
 

Dragonbums

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The game was going to come to PC anyway.
Which is why I didn't really see the point of all those PC enthusiasts throwing a fit and making a petition for GTA V to come out to PC in the first place.

I mean, come on. Really.
 

Vrach

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Yeah, obviously it will be out. And update's just PR complying with Rockstar to keep their stupid tease going.
 

Adon Cabre

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evilneko said:
Adon Cabre said:
snip
I find this just as ridiculous as your other prognostications. Do you realize how many times that same prediction has been made?[/quote]

My first post on this thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.825163-Update-GTA-V-Coming-to-PC-Says-Nvidia#20010785] explains better.
 

Adon Cabre

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Charcharo said:
Adon Cabre said:
Mycroft Holmes said:
Adon Cabre said:
Building a PC and video games are two completely different hobbies.

$800+ PC > PS4.

17-3770 - $300+
HD 7870 or GTX 660 - $200+


Motherboard.
A stylish Shell.
12 gb of ddr3 RAM.
Power supply.
HDD.
Blue ray drive.
Etc... Must support 4k.

Quality products will put you up another $300 -- this will beat the PS4 in terms of gaming & hardware capacity. I've already researched this when I was considering the jump.

$400 PS4 + $400 toward a phone, television, or games.
 

Techno Squidgy

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Adon Cabre said:
Desktops will be non-existance for most of the first world countries in three years. Everyone will own a laptop, with smaller CPU processors and only integrated graphics.
[citation needed]

I highly doubt the desktop is going anywhere in 3 years. The market is still too big. Business and industry will still need the power and flexibility of desktops, and at the very least there were still be desktop hobbyists for many years. Change takes time.

disclaimer:
I have done no research. This is all based on thought and assumption with minimal basis in reality. I await my re-education.
 

Adon Cabre

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Techno Squidgy said:
Adon Cabre said:
Desktops will be non-existance for most of the first world countries in three years. Everyone will own a laptop, with smaller CPU processors and only integrated graphics.
[citation needed]

I highly doubt the desktop is going anywhere in 3 years. The market is still too big. Business and industry will still need the power and flexibility of desktops, and at the very least there were still be desktop hobbyists for many years. Change takes time.

disclaimer:
I have done no research. This is all based on thought and assumption with minimal basis in reality. I await my re-education.
I worked at a medical clinic, where nurses and doctors used online HIPPA compliant medical programs and Facebook. And the entire time was there, I ordered laptops, software, servers, routers, etc... and not one desktop. In fact, our CIO was trying to cycle them out of the front office. Needed the Space. Me another another guy named Kevin dismantled 50 of them to send off to recycling.

But the envy of every consumer (and my parents) has been a laptop or ultra book. So after purchasing a mid-range $900 laptop with a stripped down graphics card to support a fluid 1080p Touch Display; then they'll decide between upgrading their phone or buying a console.

Not only that, but the PS4 is the smallest, most freaking stylish PC box that I've ever seen. The XOne is literally a desktop placed on its side.

I actually explain this alot better in my first post on this thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.825163-Update-GTA-V-Coming-to-PC-Says-Nvidia#20010785].
 

Techno Squidgy

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Adon Cabre said:
I worked at a medical clinic, where nurses and doctors used online HIPPA compliant medical programs and Facebook. And the entire time was there, I ordered laptops, software, servers, routers, etc... and not one desktop. In fact, our CIO was trying to cycle them out of the front office. Needed the Space. Me another another guy named Kevin dismantled 50 of them to send off to recycling.

But the envy of every consumer (and my parents) has been a laptop or ultra book. So after purchasing a mid-range $900 laptop with a stripped down graphics card to support a fluid 1080p Touch Display; then they'll decide between upgrading their phone or buying a console.

Not only that, but the PS4 is the smallest, most freaking stylish PC box that I've ever seen. The XOne is literally a desktop placed on its side.

I actually explain this alot better in my first post on this thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.825163-Update-GTA-V-Coming-to-PC-Says-Nvidia#20010785].
Hmm. Interesting, though I remain unconvinced and will have to look into this myself. I was kinda hoping for some data, sales numbers or something, so that I could see for myself but it won't be that hard to find, I think.

I dunno why, it just seems unlikely to me that the desktop will disappear. If laptops are moving to low power CPUs and cut down GPUs, then I imagine the desktop will have to stick around. What good is a crippled laptop for 3D modelling, animation or software development. Those all need powerful machines with beefy hardware to deal with rendering or compiling which can take hours on current desktops, moving to laptop hardware would only increase those times, which I imagine is the exact opposite of what industry wants.

Perhaps we will see the end of the consumer desktop, but again, I don't think it likely any time soon. Too many PC gamers, bedroom programmers, amateur 3D artists, bedroom recording studios and amateur film makers. In my head, a laptop just wouldn't cater for these people's needs, especially not one that's been designed with battery life rather than performance in mind.

I'll agree with you that the PS4 looks banging though. Simple, yet sleek. Looks kinda mean as well.