Update: Minecraft Fan Film Wants $600,000 From Kickstarter

[Therumancer]

My opinions here are mixed. While this seems like a truly terrible idea on a lot of levels, I think Mojang, a company that has been been screaming about trademark/copyright bullies shutting down a fan film is kind of hypocritical. Unless I'm missing something here this is basically someone producing the equivalent of what say "Nuka Break" was to the "Fallout" games or things along those lines. It presents no real threat to Minecraft or it's brand, and might actually bring in new players, or help keep the ones there increasingly invested in the community.

Don't get me wrong, Mojang is within it's rights, but a company that has been all upset about fighting another company being bullies over the word "Scrolls" rally grass roots support, doesn't seem like the kind of company that should be getting all upset over some fans making a movie of dubious quality for love of the game.

I can see where Mojang are coming from. While the film may not be threatening to the Minecraft brand, it is someone asking for over half a million dollars to make a video about someone else's IP without doing the decent thing and getting permission to do so beforehand. I mean, that would be the first step you would take, surely?

Oh I see the point, but at the same time fans rarely if ever ask permission for anything like this. Again I mention something like "Nuka Break" which seems spiritually to be the same thing this is doing. Albeit I have no idea how much that cost to make.

Part of my point is that Mojang has been playing the public sympathy card in it's battle with Bethesda over the "Scrolls" name. Not everyone may agree, but to me it seems like a company that is complaining about pointless IP bullying is now IP bullying some fans.

If I was running Mojang, and had been involved in that kind of dispute and got the attention I did, I'd only go after the fans here if they were making money off of my IP. If they make an entirely donation based fan film and put it up for free, I wouldn't see the big deal, even if it sucks it's good publicity simply due to showing that the fan base cares enough about my product to even attempt it. Assuming of course it's not inherently insulting, mocking, or disrespectful of my property as well. If they wanted to add a lot of sex or ultra-violence into the minecraft movie and were promoting it that way, then again I could see Mojang getting involved. You know "Minecraft: The Porno ... the most intense action for voxel fetishists out there! Featuring the most intense monster rape/snuff scenes evah!!" But that's not what this is, and rule 34 aside I have absolutely no idea how you could do something really offensive with Minecraft anyway, it's just not that kind of thing. Juvenile crap like someone making giant wieners and stuff yes, but not anything really bad, and frankly nobody would be able to raise money like this to produce something that like a deranged 9 year old might scribble trying to "out dirty" his friends.

The bottom line is part of my point is contextual, I think Mojang in particular sort of lost the moral right to harass fans on IP grounds when it rallied those same fans in defense of IP bullying. To me at least it makes Mojang seem like the worst kind of hippocrits . Your more than welcome to disagree though, I mean I also see their grounds, I just don't think it's right in this case. Yes the movie makers technically should have asked, but at the same time I can't in good faith say really get behind that given all of the fan made stuff I've enjoyed that didn't make that kind of request, and frankly if every fan that wanted to do anything went through the trouble of petitioning companies to engage in an off the cuff project nothing would be done.

 

[Someone Depressing]

"Minecraft is made of blocks and blocks can be made of anyone so we can have shitty effects in a shitty-looking world because it's still faithful to the non-existent canon and Minecraft is popular and I will be the next Kubo."

Atleast the Mortal Kombat movies were kind of good because they were so cheesy. That's more than this movie could even hope to want.

 

[The Eupho Guy_v1legacy]

My opinions here are mixed. While this seems like a truly terrible idea on a lot of levels, I think Mojang, a company that has been been screaming about trademark/copyright bullies shutting down a fan film is kind of hypocritical. Unless I'm missing something here this is basically someone producing the equivalent of what say "Nuka Break" was to the "Fallout" games or things along those lines. It presents no real threat to Minecraft or it's brand, and might actually bring in new players, or help keep the ones there increasingly invested in the community.

Don't get me wrong, Mojang is within it's rights, but a company that has been all upset about fighting another company being bullies over the word "Scrolls" rally grass roots support, doesn't seem like the kind of company that should be getting all upset over some fans making a movie of dubious quality for love of the game.

I can see where Mojang are coming from. While the film may not be threatening to the Minecraft brand, it is someone asking for over half a million dollars to make a video about someone else's IP without doing the decent thing and getting permission to do so beforehand. I mean, that would be the first step you would take, surely?

Oh I see the point, but at the same time fans rarely if ever ask permission for anything like this. Again I mention something like "Nuka Break" which seems spiritually to be the same thing this is doing. Albeit I have no idea how much that cost to make.

Part of my point is that Mojang has been playing the public sympathy card in it's battle with Bethesda over the "Scrolls" name. Not everyone may agree, but to me it seems like a company that is complaining about pointless IP bullying is now IP bullying some fans.

If I was running Mojang, and had been involved in that kind of dispute and got the attention I did, I'd only go after the fans here if they were making money off of my IP. If they make an entirely donation based fan film and put it up for free, I wouldn't see the big deal, even if it sucks it's good publicity simply due to showing that the fan base cares enough about my product to even attempt it. Assuming of course it's not inherently insulting, mocking, or disrespectful of my property as well. If they wanted to add a lot of sex or ultra-violence into the minecraft movie and were promoting it that way, then again I could see Mojang getting involved. You know "Minecraft: The Porno ... the most intense action for voxel fetishists out there! Featuring the most intense monster rape/snuff scenes evah!!" But that's not what this is, and rule 34 aside I have absolutely no idea how you could do something really offensive with Minecraft anyway, it's just not that kind of thing. Juvenile crap like someone making giant wieners and stuff yes, but not anything really bad, and frankly nobody would be able to raise money like this to produce something that like a deranged 9 year old might scribble trying to "out dirty" his friends.

The bottom line is part of my point is contextual, I think Mojang in particular sort of lost the moral right to harass fans on IP grounds when it rallied those same fans in defense of IP bullying. To me at least it makes Mojang seem like the worst kind of hippocrits . Your more than welcome to disagree though, I mean I also see their grounds, I just don't think it's right in this case. Yes the movie makers technically should have asked, but at the same time I can't in good faith say really get behind that given all of the fan made stuff I've enjoyed that didn't make that kind of request, and frankly if every fan that wanted to do anything went through the trouble of petitioning companies to engage in an off the cuff project nothing would be done.

That's fair enough. I am in no way against fan works that are derivative of popular media. Heck, I'm a frequent watcher of Lets Play's and am a fan of OCRemix. I'm not against the film in and of itself, however the Kickstarter campaign is problematic, I think. Rather than being an amateur (self funded) initiative, like Nuka Break, it becomes a professional (paid) project, which adds a whole host of complications. OCRemix ran into the same trouble with Square-Enix, when they launched a Kickstarter for their Final Fantasy VI album (Which is awesome, btw). Their first campaign was stopped by SE because they did not get in contact with them and they weren't happy with anyone else making money off their IP. In the end, OCRemix and SE came to an agreement regarding royalties, relaunched the project and all was well.

Lastly, I thought the scuffle between Bethesda/Zenimax and Mojang was Trademark related, not IP?

 

[cerebus23]

Bethesda were just being arses on that partly at lest, Nooone was going to confuse scrolls an indie game for THE ELDER SCROLLS it was near silly.

But in this legaleze world i believe there is a clause or law that states if you do not defend an IP claim then you forefit any future claims in that area or somethign along those lines, so beth was almost forced to put out a case in that case else there could have been more scrolls games and unless notch and co were going to hire lawyers to defend their ip and in a round about way bethesdas elder scrolls ip, so suing notch out the gate nipped all that in the bud.

I BELIEVE that is something how it works but i am no lawyer, i think i have heard it explained that way.

 

[Qvar]

Bethesda were just being arses on that partly at lest, Nooone was going to confuse scrolls an indie game for THE ELDER SCROLLS it was near silly.

But in this legaleze world i believe there is a clause or law that states if you do not defend an IP claim then you forefit any future claims in that area or somethign along those lines, so beth was almost forced to put out a case in that case else there could have been more scrolls games and unless notch and co were going to hire lawyers to defend their ip and in a round about way bethesdas elder scrolls ip, so suing notch out the gate nipped all that in the bud.

I BELIEVE that is something how it works but i am no lawyer, i think i have heard it explained that way.

It doesn't, but US tribunals tend to be as retarded as they can get away with, so in some instances it has happened to be that way. Mind you, this only applies to US companies, which I belive both Mojang and Bethesda are, but amy not apply to everyone.

OT: Mojang being angry at this was to be expected, and I don't know what the hell was this guy thinking to expect otherwise.
Also the people being surprised about 600000$ budget movies not being treated equal to fan-made youtube videos, please stop smoking.

 

[AndrewC]

Given the effort that Brandon puts into his work, this had the potential to be pretty impressive. It's nice to see him working on his own stuff as opposed to the usual gun vids with Freddie. Brandon always had a tendency to mix things up a bit, and to a impressive level.

That being said, I'm really surprised he didn't ask permission just as a precaution and given how long he's been doing VFX videos it was strange to hear about.

A shame, hope he gets the go ahead at some point.

 

[Baresark]

Damn, canceled. That is a damn shame. I was ready to drop money on it.

You have a perfectly functional toilet don't you? Why not flush some money down there instead, same effect basically.

Have you heard of Pascal's wager? This is a similar situation. I would like to see a movie that takes place in the world of Minecraft. It's a world of fascination. Crazy things happen there and it would be an interesting setting. So, lets talk about your point. If I were to take my money and flush it down the toilet, there is a 0% probability of reaping any kind of enjoyment from it. But, if I were to invest in a movie that took place in the setting of Minecraft, there is an infinite % probability increase that I would reap some enjoyment of it. Even if the actual probability was 1x10-100% of it being good at all or even happening, it would still represent an infinitely better way for me to spend my money, rather than flushing it down the toilet.

 

[Therumancer]

[

That's fair enough. I am in no way against fan works that are derivative of popular media. Heck, I'm a frequent watcher of Lets Play's and am a fan of OCRemix. I'm not against the film in and of itself, however the Kickstarter campaign is problematic, I think. Rather than being an amateur (self funded) initiative, like Nuka Break, it becomes a professional (paid) project, which adds a whole host of complications. OCRemix ran into the same trouble with Square-Enix, when they launched a Kickstarter for their Final Fantasy VI album (Which is awesome, btw). Their first campaign was stopped by SE because they did not get in contact with them and they weren't happy with anyone else making money off their IP. In the end, OCRemix and SE came to an agreement regarding royalties, relaunched the project and all was well.

Lastly, I thought the scuffle between Bethesda/Zenimax and Mojang was Trademark related, not IP?

To be honest with the way things work with these kinds of online/gaming properties I've gotten in the habit of calling everything an IP dispute. Probably a bad idea, but as time goes on it seems like copyrights are just becoming one element of IP battles because they are being invoked largely to engage in the broad defense of a property.

For example, as I understand things the battle over "Scrolls" is not just the name, but the whole "fantasy image" it invokes, and the fact that "Scrolls" was a game with strong sword and sorcery themes in terms of it's parchment/scroll presentation and high fantasy character artwork. Since "Elder Scrolls" is also a fantasy game, someone releasing something that is also sword and sorcery using part of that name could lead someone to believe it's a related product.

The thing to understand here is that when it comes to an IP, the exact nature of the product that popularized it, isn't the entire issue due to the fact that someone might want to produce spin off products. Sort of like how "Fable 2" had a card game thing in the XBL arcade to help hype it's release. Strictly speaking you could say that a term like "Fable" is as generic as "Saga" or "Scrolls", and the Fable Games up until that point had nothing to do with card based mini-games. However the guys doing that series obviously want to keep the "Fable" name in their domain so they have the option to use it for very different things as they have done.

In the case of "Scrolls" it's only using part of the name as opposed to "Fable" which is all inclusive, but the style in which Mojang's game existed could perhaps cause some confusion, and especially with "Elder Scrolls" moving into other areas like MMOs I suppose they might have a point. Consider for example that "Neverwinter" recently got some attention for releasing this simplified board game type attachment called "Sword Coast Adventures" through their gateway where you can send you companions on quests and play a dice/symbol matching game to improve their power and nab a bit of extra treasure for Neverwinter. If say Elder Scrolls wanted to do something similar, they might want to keep a name like "Scrolls" open and certainly wouldn't want other simplified games perhaps causing confusion, after all if the "Neverwinter" thing catches on, I could see people creating card based mini-games and the like attached to their
RPG properties.

The point is that you might be right that it's being fought entirely as a copyright issues, but that isn't how I understood the issue. I still think Bethesda is wrong mind you, but it's not something without precedent, and as popular games have very slowly been gaining momentum in producing spin off and tie in products, especially MMOs (which Bethesda is moving into) you can see why rabid lawyers are being thrown around indiscriminately.

At the end of the day though money is involved there with one company's financial gain being potentially compromised by another. There is a reason to fight. When it comes to a fan film, unless it's going to in some way damage the product, there is absolutely no threat being presented, UNLESS the guys doing the fan film are trying to make money off of it, or claim if gives them some control or say over the central property.

 

[Eve Charm]

Unless he was going to use the money to buy the rights to do a minecraft movie, something people do do with money from kickstarter, You'd be out of your damn mind to think you can ask for $600,000 dollars for a movie that's going to have to be largely green screen with a few 20 or so dollar minecraft toys ((which they already have by the looks of the ad)) that even being released for free will probably make tons of money off youtube ads.


It'd be a bad show if This got canned just because it's a movie then the price.

By all means the guy should put up his campaign again with an $1000 goal. IF he gets $600,000 anyway I doubt Notch would lose the rep of trying to cancel it again.

 

[SinisterGehe]

It got

Update: The Kickstarter for Birth of Man has apparently been cancelled by its creator. While we've reached out to the project for a comment, it'd be fair to say, based on <a href=https://twitter.com/notch/status/431795020082216960>recent Tweets, that Minecraft's makers didn't tale too kindly to the film going forward without permission.

Source: <a href=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/878782324/birth-of-man-a-minecraft-feature-film>Kickstarter


Permalink

You don't say that if you sell your project under someone else's IP they might get angry.
Note this is not machinima they are selling a totally different idea (product) under minecraft's name.
They could have replaced the name with "blockcraft" or "Hexahedron-craft" and had the same result.
People have to understand that you just can't slap someone elses name on a product and call it a day! Specially without a permission!

Edit:

.:Snip:.

My above statement.
+ You have to always ask permission to use someone's name if you are making money. Youtube machinimas making ad revenue is different thing they allow that. But they are asking $600.000 for themselves without any guarantees using Minecraft's name. It is totally a different matter.

Also:
https://twitter.com/notch/status/431795020082216960

 

[Baresark]

Damn, canceled. That is a damn shame. I was ready to drop money on it.

And all because it had Minecraft on it.

It didn't matter to you how inexperienced Laatsch was at conventional film making, it didn't matter if the script, directing, or use of budget turned into absolute trash, it didn't matter if it was thoroughly not entertaining and a complete waste of everyone's time and money, none of it mattered. The only thing that mattered to you was that it was Minecraft.

Christ, what has happened to the discerning consumer?

Funny thing about being a consumer, I can determine how I spend the money I earn. You shouldn't come onto websites and question people's interest, you automatically sound like a dick. If you don't care for the setting of Minecraft, that is fine. It's a setting where interesting stuff occurs all the time, or at least can occur. But as an interesting setting, it's a good idea, in my opinion.

You have never watched a movie or television show from someone who was inexperienced? Do you like to have all of the things you watch vetted by a movie studio? That sounds completely awful. You cannot speak on the script, directing, or use of budget. We will never know. You don't know if it would have been entertaining or a complete waste of time. No one does or will.

You shouldn't sit there and act like you are somehow more "discerning" than I am. You are not. Your position is that it's complete shit, but you have no grounds to base that on.

 

[Baresark]

snip

Trolls gonna troll. You are literally just using what I said to somehow prove you are... what? Smarter than me? Your opinion is more valid than mine? Nice try, "buddy". No one gives a shit if you aren't interested in something. They give just about as much crap as you should that I was interested in that. Move along, not too many people care about what you think on a movie that isn't happening. Least of all myself. Take your faux-intellectualism somewhere where it matters. If you want to talk about movies you hate or hate the idea of, they have sites just for that.