UPDATE: PS3 Hacker GeoHot Claims He's on Vacation

[Nurb]

He legally owns the hardware. He doesn't legally own all the software available to it. Jailbreaking should be treated like attempted robbery, imo, for anything in which jailbreaking gives you free access to services that should be payed for. It's like robbing the goods from a store. Just cause you only slugged the cashier and opened the vault and let everybody in to do what they want doesn't mean you aren't fucking breaking the law.

EDIT: Paying for a service does not entitle you to every service the provider has to offer. Going behind a provider's back to take more than what you payed for should get your sorry ass thrown in jail, whether it's stealing real items, or hacking a game console

What the hell? What's with people just bending over for these companies? Even after all this technological development, the PC is still the only device that the customer has 100% control over. Do you LIKE the fact no mobile devices let you decide how you want to us them and that a company dictates what is the acceptable use of a product you paid 100-300 bucks for, then limit what sort of software you can and can't have on it? People are just rolling over and accepting this limited use proprietary bullshit. I paid for it, I'm jailbreaking it, and I'm using my own damn property how I want.

 

[RA92]

He didn't address the specific claims of tampering with evidence, but I'm sure that is probably best left to his lawyers.

Speaking of the tampering of equipment, according to GeoHot's attorney (talking to IGN), the missing components have been delivered as per requested by Sony, so the "point is moot" apparently.

Linky links: http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/115/1157239p1.html

If all of this is true, then really its Sony who's painted as the bad guys (again) here, using every excuse to try and convince the court that GeoHot is actually evil...

You know, people are probably going to ignore your post and go back to saying he deserves punishment because of that douchey photo... -_-

 

[RA92]

Well, let him enjoy his vacation then. That doesn't change the fact that he tampered with the evidence.

So says Sony's lawyers. <url=http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/115/1157239p1.html>Oh wait...

Who's the douche now?

 

[ZephrC]

That makes absolutely no sense. Half the people in this thread seem to be just painting a target on Sony's head calling them wrong and basically saying they are evil on the basis that they are a big corporation and all big corporations by definition dont deserve the money they have and will always shit on the little guy. It makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. They are protecting their property. Anyone who says that Hotz is in the right in doing what he's doing is either a hacker, in denial, or just stupid. He's breaking the law on multiple accounts, and now he's committed fraud.

See, what you don't seem to get is that a lot of people view this case as protecting their property, and most of us see Sony's definition of who owns what as stupid, unethical and dysfunctional, and we would like to have a court agree with us even if it means supporting a guy who's kind of a douche-bag in the process.

We have just as much right to defend what we think is ours as Sony does. Why do you want to take that away from us?

 

[Nurb]

Fuck Sony.

If they weren't dicks to begin with and telling a customer what they can and can't do with their own damn property, he wouldn't be in this mess.

Corporate greed and control of customer actions is the crime here, so yea, fuck Sony. They deserve to be pirated.

Once again. This isn't about "Telling people what they can do with there property" this is about "Releasing security information to the public"
......

He bought the hardware, it's his property, he has every right to take it apart, see how it works and tell others how to do it too. That "Security information" was on his hardware. People can share info on how to crack cable boxes and cable company DVR consoles, and it's perfectly legal in that case (So long as you don't steal cable service and they own the box).

And Modding has the same effect as releasing "security info": it curcumvents company supplied software to make it do what you want. It's the same damn thing

So yes, this is a company dictating what a person can do with their legally bought hardware and software on it, and dragging them into court over it is wrong.

He legally owns the hardware. He doesn't legally own all the software available to it. Jailbreaking should be treated like attempted robbery, imo, for anything in which jailbreaking gives you free access to services that should be payed for. It's like robbing the goods from a store. Just cause you only slugged the cashier and opened the vault and let everybody in to do what they want doesn't mean you aren't fucking breaking the law.

EDIT: Paying for a service does not entitle you to every service the provider has to offer. Going behind a provider's back to take more than what you payed for should get your sorry ass thrown in jail, whether it's stealing real items, or hacking a game console

What the hell? What's with people just bending over for these companies? Even after all this technological development, the PC is still the only device that the customer has 100% control over. Do you LIKE the fact no mobile devices let you decide how you want to us them and that a company dictates what is the acceptable use of a product you paid 100-300 bucks for, then limit what sort of software you can and can't have on it? People are just rolling over and accepting this limited use proprietary bullshit.

So, do you go into a restraunt, eat your meal, and then start beating the waiter because he didn't go give you all the food in the kitchen as well? If you want the services, pay for them. If not, shut the f--- up. You're not impressing anybody with your crap about it's apparently wrong to need to pay for a company's goods

Edit: Jeez, the only thing worse than a pirate or a theif is a moralising pirate or theif. It's one thing to steal. It's another thing to convince yourself that your stealing proves some sort of superiority

This is quite possibly the most idiotic hyperbole I've heard yet. Why don't you compare REAL robbery to the holocaust while you're at it? How old ar you anyway? No, if you want to use a real life comparison, it's going into a resturant, ordering a meal, paying up front and being told how to eat it.

EDIT: By the way you can say "Fuck" here if you want. Either go for the gold or don't use it at all.

 

[icyneesan]

Its more cooler to believe that he fled to South America and Nathan Drake and Kratos are hunting after him.

 

[Arcticflame]

So, do you go into a restraunt, eat your meal, and then start beating the waiter because he didn't go give you all the food in the kitchen as well? If you want the services, pay for them. If not, shut the f--- up. You're not impressing anybody with your crap about it's apparently wrong to need to pay for a company's goods

That doesn't make sense. Please improve your analogy.

I can do it too: "So do you go to a restaurant, order a meal and then get forced to eat it with your hands, and the meal is made of poo?"

Yeah, makes no logical sense, because we have strayed from any sort of logical grounds, and moved straight to strawman arguments.

He isn't saying that you don't pay for goods you purchased, he is saying that once you buy a piece of hardware you should be able to hack it all you want, I happen to agree with him on that, even if the hacks enable piracy I think it should be allowed.

Where I draw the line, is the actual act of putting a pirate game on your machine. Everything up to that should be legal in my books, and as far as I know, this is a giant gray area, it isn't definitely illegal yet. In fact in australia it's legal (at least for the iphone jailbreaks).

To break it down. Modifying console = Fine.
Using said modification to put a pirate game on it = bad.

To put someone who has modified a console on the same level as a psychopath who beats waiters for food is.. a tad ridiculous to say the least.

If you don't like the way they're serving their food, don't buy it instead of throwing a shit-fit like a fucking self-entitled child.

That still makes no sense, you can't keep using the broken analogy as your logic.

 

[DivineBeastLink]

No, if you want to use a real life comparison, it's going into a resturant, ordering a meal, paying up front and being told how to eat it.

Not only told, but practically forced by a team of lawyers with hefty legal tomes.

 

[Aris Khandr]

No, if you want to use a real life comparison, it's going into a resturant, ordering a meal, paying up front and being told how to eat it.

Not only told, but practically forced by a team of lawyers with hefty legal tomes.

To continue the analogy, though, you were told about this restriction beforehand, and agreed to it. And now you're complaining that you are being expected to uphold the agreement you made? If it was that big a problem for you, why did you go to that restaurant in the first place?

 

[duchaked]

oh he's just on vacation on spring break...enjoying freedom while it lasts buahahahaha

 

[Signa]

What the hell? What's with people just bending over for these companies?

I KNOW! I've been seeing it more and more, and it is awful! Companies are there to make money by giving us what we want, not to enslave us with their rules on how to make our lives more enjoyable and convenient with the gadgets we buy from them. Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"? A company should strive to make us the most happy so we give them as much money as we can afford. This isn't capitalism anymore, this is fascism.

I feel like I'm invoking godwin's law, but just look at the extreme example that Valve is putting on. They don't bother enslaving us or gouging our wallets, they just want to do the best damn job they can so what we like not only their products but them as well. THAT'S what capitalism is about.

 

[Nurb]

They don't care about anything involving the hardware...

So, by your right, i can take windows apart, learn how to utterly fuck it up and disable it beyond working, as well as destroying any physical devices, then release said information for anyone to use and just say "Well its not meant for people to use maliciously?"

No.

Uh, yes, people do break windows down to the bare code, learn how it all works, how to exploit it and share that information on how to do it. What you do with that information makes it harmful or harmless. It's called hacking and creating viruses and both criminals and the government do it for attack and defense.

Alright. Prove that absolutely nobody is going to use said code maliciously. I'm waiting.

First, you have to prove to me that absolutely nobody is going to use the PC for criminal activity before you can use yours the way you want again tomorrow.

No, it's actually not. One involves releasing information that can impact other people play experience and be used in malicious ways.

The other can be a modification used to perform a specific task, like install other OS's, and can easily be justified in the fact the program will not be used maliciously, and that it wouldn't be his fault if they did.

Mods can and do both of those things. It depends on how you use it, just like the PC can be used for good and bad. You don't keep people from using a device because a minority might do something negative with it.

No, it's a company not wanting a security root key leaked because of how it can impact both the company and player experience.

Extra Credits already discussed this; Knowledge of how something works is not a crime.

 

[Worgen]

Hard to believe him. Honestly he is still a douche. Sure he may have planned this back in Novemember, but who would leave during a court case on vacation? What do Lawyers decide half-way through a court-case to go on vacation?

considering that this case will probably last years, yes, yes they do

 

[health-bar]

Its more cooler to believe that he fled to South America and Nathan Drake and Kratos are hunting after him.

Finally, an entertaining comment.

 

[Nurb]

What the hell? What's with people just bending over for these companies?

I KNOW! I've been seeing it more and more, and it is awful! Companies are there to make money by giving us what we want, not to enslave us with their rules on how to make our lives more enjoyable and convenient with the gadgets we buy from them. Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"? A company should strive to make us the most happy so we give them as much money as we can afford. This isn't capitalism anymore, this is fascism.

I feel like I'm invoking godwin's law, but just look at the extreme example that Valve is putting on. They don't bother enslaving us or gouging our wallets, they just want to do the best damn job they can so what we like not only their products but them as well. THAT'S what capitalism is about.

Jailbreaking and cracking code are customer responses that people want to use their property how they see fit.

Capitalism doesn't exist; if it did I'd have more than one choice for cable, sattelite, phone, electric, and internet services in my area.

Oh yea, Valve is really doing what people want; How's that episode 3 everyones been wanting for the last 5 years anyway? Oh that's right, it hasn't been released because they're making more crap to nickle and dime people with.

 

[MorphingDragon]

So, by your right, i can take windows apart, learn how to utterly fuck it up and disable it beyond working, as well as destroying any physical devices, then release said information for anyone to use and just say "Well its not meant for people to use maliciously?"

I would like to introduce you to ReactOS, WINE and Cedega.

They're all legal too.

 

[Kagim]

Uh, yes, people do break windows down to the bare code, learn how it all works, how to exploit it and share that information on how to do it. What you do with that information makes it harmful or harmless. It's called hacking and creating viruses and both criminals and the government do it for attack and defense.

So that makes it right?

Giving people the ability to cause harm and shrugging your shoulders and saying "Well I didn't tell them to" isn't a defense. It's irresponsible.

First, you have to prove to me that absolutely nobody is going to use the PC for criminal activity before you can use yours the way you want again tomorrow.

Ah yes, because one thing works this way ALL things work this way.

"Officer! That man is walking downtown with a loaded shotgun!"

"has he shot anyone?"

"Well, no"

"THEN WHY SHOULD I ARREST HIM YOU FASCIST! FUCK! SHOULD I GO ARREST EVERYONE WITH GUNS! MAYBE HE JUST WANTS TO WALK AROUND WITH AN ARMED WEAPON IN PUBLIC. GIVING HIS GUN A WALK. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU HITLER"

Yeah, that doesn't work. Don't be naive.

Mods can and do both of those things. It depends on how you use it, just like the PC can be used for good and bad. You don't keep people from using a device because a minority might do something negative with it.

If it was a mod i wouldn't have said this now would I? A mod isn't a security root key which can be used to fuck over other peoples systems and fuck up online games.

A modded system can just be banned.

This wasn't a mod, it was a security root key that could be used in a very exploitative manner and not so much in safe ways.

What i am trying to get through to you is that if this was nothing more the na mod, or third party firmware or software. Then yeah, Sony would be the bad guys.

This isn't. It's a exploit of there system being released.

Exploiting something and modding it are different things.

Edit: I like how you say minority as if it's a fact, not an opinion. Nice touch.

Extra Credits already discussed this; Knowledge of how something works is not a crime.

Knowledge of how to exploit something in a malicious way should be.

-10 Internets for mentioning extra credits though.