UPDATE: PS3 Hacker GeoHot Claims He's on Vacation

[Orcus The Ultimate]

the invisible All Seeing Eye is judging...

sorry for the size of the picture, but it felt too damn fun not to use it !

 

[Blind Sight]

Guys, it's a college student in South America on spring break. I know a dozen other people who went to Cuba, Mexico, Central America, and Peru when my school's spring break was on. I also have no idea how the hell they paid for their trips, but I don't instantly assume criminal behaviour. It's not really that suspicious, and jumping to conclusions despite NO EVIDENCE is just illogical. If he stays awhile longer then it becomes more questionable. But unless you have access to the guy's banking information, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING OR HOW HE GOT THE FUNDS. So please, stop stating your opinions like its factual truth.

I await further information before passing judgement.

 

[hooksashands]

What else can you do besides cover your tracks and run for the border.

Reap the windfall, my friend.

 

[Ghengis John]

Idiot. That's why hackers have alaises. All this trouble started because he was dumb enough to want recognition and notoriety for his work. Hubris, chief, pure hubris.

 

[BRex21]

Most of this appears to be based on "Sony's claims", i dont hink they are an unbiased party in this matter. I'm not saying its untrue, im saying i would like to hear it from a source that hasnt already tried circumventing the law.

The thing is since it's a video game related case (very low on the U.S. courts' importance level) the U.S. courts aren't going to be giving out news. Sony's info is the best we've got.

AAAnd now the other side of the story, All the people who accused him of taking the money and running are proven wrong, the guy has already payed his lawyers who are responding with proof that no evidence tampering took place.Of course people could have looked at how sony got the information that this guy was in South America or what the removal of controller cards actually means, but no. Just look at all the people on here who bought into Sony's slander. I would gladly donate to the legal fund for GeoHot to sue Sony for this.

Go read the original article again. Sony said that he left. They never said he ran. Also this info is coming from Sony's lawyers, who are honestly getting payed waaaaaaaay more than Geohotz's legal fees. For a reason. Geohotz's legal fees are only $10,000. That's a really, really cheap lawyer. Most lawyers charge $200-$300 an hour to talk to. The amount he has is probably enough for 33 hours. This info about evidence tampering can't be just made up as I'm pretty sure that releasing false information about court cases is illegal. Also I'mpretty sure Hotz's legal fees aren't paid off yet. That's not how it works. Lawyers usually take the money after sevices are done so they get the entire amount calculated properly, as you have to pay for the time used in court. And to be honestly fair, the man says he's in South America on vacation. Why? Why not cancel the vacation to better prepare his case? Why have people pay for his responsibility and not put any money in himself?

He spouts this "freedon fighter" crap and people like you eat it up. How much money are you willing to donate to this guy? Are you going to pay for it when he loses too?

Lawyers will pretty much never work without cash up front, except on contingency, which wouldnt apply in this case. GeoHot, raised money to pay something called a "retainer" which is a lump sum of money the lawyer will hold until his services are complete, then when he has no further use for a lawyer the lawyer takes his pay out of that retiner and returns the rest or takes the full retainer and asks the client for additional fees that have been incured.
I also suggest you re-read the article and if you feel you know all the facts i suggest you find out why sony made the claims of evidence tampering.

"Hots attempting to dodge the courts athority" is clearly accusing him of fleeing, and if you were to dig a little deeper you would find that the reason the "evidence was tampered with" was that he didnt turn over the control cards for the hard drives, which he was never ordered to do, and Sony, an electronics giant should probably have someone who could deal with this. I work with plants and i have someone who could do it on site.

 

[Deadman Walkin]

In which case i sincerely appologise, should really check my facts.... :s "all i wanted was to contribute

No problem, we all do it sometimes! I just remembered that story and searched it up.

 

[Danpascooch]

Knowing and being willing to create malicious programs? That's not Geohotz, he's just opening it up for OTHER people who could potentially make illegal programs.

His crime is supposedly "Knowing something that might allow someone else to do something illegal" That is so fucking far removed from the illegal act itself it's outrageous, might as well arrest murderer's mothers for birthing a murderer, after all, it couldn't have happened without the mother!

I find what he did irresponsible. This seems less like "I just wanted to help people" and more like "I'm going to release a root key i know will cause problems for a big company as a way of waving my dick in their faces"

Also bare in mind i think both groups are in the wrong. Sony did something stupid, i also think GeoHots did something just as stupid.

He knew it would cause problems and release it to the general public. Allowing something he knew would be used maliciously to be handed out. There is a difference between "Lol you gave birth to a murder you should be hanged!" and "You left a ton of loaded fire arms in the middle of a street"

Essentially what your saying is when he released it and was later told people were using it in exploitative ways it totally blew his mind. I don't buy that.

Amusing, however that you bring up punishing the mother. In a time where so many people are calling neglectful and abusive parents to stand some responsibility for raising there children badly you stand that a parent shouldn't be held accountable for there child even if they abused and mistreated him to the point of breaking there minds.

Anything could be used negatively.Walk over her and I can show you what my shoe can do You are just cynical beyond help it seems.

That's not what i mean, however. But I have grown tired of repeating myself.

Wow, Now I'm actually really pissed off. You have my quote right in front of you, for god's sake it's IN YOUR POST, and you claim I said something ridiculously stupid and offensive which I did not say at all

Here is what I said

might as well arrest murderer's mothers for birthing a murderer

Here is what you claimed I said

you stand that a parent shouldn't be held accountable for there child even if they abused and mistreated him to the point of breaking there minds.

Do you see a little bit of a difference there? This is immature slander and you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.

Here is the definition of Birth:

?verb (used with object)
8. to give birth to.

Funny, I don't see "abuse and mistreat to the point of insanity" ANYWHERE in that definition.

Absolutely unbelievable, I've made thousands of posts, and plenty of people have been a jerk to me, but never have I seen someone completely make up a statement and put it in my mouth like that. I wanted to debate with you, but not if you're going to act like a child.

 

[Danpascooch]

Go Sony Go? Seriously?

I supported Geohotz up until this dumb and selfish as fuck move, now I think he's an ass.

But for most supporters it's not really about Geohotz winning, it's about Sony losing

Did you hear they demanded the IP addresses and names of everyone who has watched one of Geohotz's videos? How fucking insane is that, it's like 10 right's violations in one action, not to mention the implications of being allowed to grab that data on people in all different countries and jurisdictions. Sony has gone bat shit crazy and insanely overstepped their authority, and they need to be punished for it.

So, in short, fuck Geohotz, but certainly not "go Sony go"

So it's better for Sony, a company of 1000's of people, to lose, rather than one naive computer whiz to obey the law? Right...
Care to show how that is a rights violation of just using hyperbole's as substance? Do you even know why they wanted to know the IP's? My guess is would be to directly link Geohotz to people pirating PS3 games, but no one knows so it's a inane path of thought to pursue.
Sony have never screwed me over so in this instance I see it that a company is standing against someone who is aiding pirating on the PS3.
Go. Sony. Go.

What, you still think its a good thing that a company can tell you that you can't mess with something you own?

Geohot may have fucked up, but its the principle of it. Companies should not remove advertised features then ***** when people hack them back in.

Well yes. I own the PS3, not the OS. I have paid to use the PS3 in the way it's been described, not as a custom dev kit.
Nice of you to ignore the rest of the reason he is being sued by Sony e.g. The root key release.

You own the PS3 not the OS?

You realize you could use that exact same argument to say "I own the PS3, but not the ability to play games on it"

The "Other OS" feature was a function of the PS3 just like every other one, saying that because you don't use it it doesn't matter is selfish. You say "I own the PS3, but not the OS" which is an interesting opinion, because where is the distinction between "features of the PS3 that you own" and "features of the PS3 that you don't own"? You claim you own the PS3 but not that feature, so what features do you own? Do you own the function to play games? Do you own the web browser function? Because I don't see why those functions would be things you "own" but not the other OS.

Either there is something special about the "Other OS" function that sets it apart from every other function in terms of ownership, or what Sony is arguing here is that you aren't entitled to any of the PS3's functions, and if they need to, they can take any of them away whether you paid for them or not.

I don't pay money to then need Sony's permission to use my PS3, that's bullshit.

To answer your question they say they wanted the IP's in order to see how many people were in California, for jurisdictional reasons. The problem is this information includes all sorts of people from other countries, who is Sony to claim such global authority? Also, they requested the IP's of any who visited Geohotz site up to two years before he released the root key justify THAT to me.

Lastly, this statement is a little weird to me:

So it's better for Sony, a company of 1000's of people, to lose, rather than one naive computer whiz to obey the law? Right...

If thousands of people do something wrong, they should be held accountable, how is the size of Sony relevant? Other than to say they should be immune from breaking the law because of their size (which would be crazy) I don't see how their size is even relevant.

Do tell, what law is Geohotz breaking? Sure, other people may break the law with the root key, but that's those people who are breaking the law, not Geohotz.

 

[Reed Spacer]

The information is out there.

Even if they make a charge stick, Geohotz already wins..

 

[JonnWood]

To all the people who say that that Hotz and everyone else would just use the jailbreak to pirate, might I remind you people of another case Sony was involved concerning possible copyright infringement.

*Hint* Sony was actually fighting for consumer rights in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc.

>citing a case from 1984 as an example of Sony's "hypocrisy"

The Web did not exist. Which means that the Internet, as most people refer to it, literally did not exist at the time of that case. Even when it did, online piracy would not become a problem until the late 90s, and it is now an permanent part of the Internet, like Youtube and free email.

Also, this is not merely a hypothetical. Every time a console is jailbroken, it's used largely for piracy. Either Hotz knew this and didn't care, or he didn't and is irresponsible and/or dumb.

Your argument is invalid.

 

[cgentero]

>citing a case from 1984 as an example of Sony's "hypocrisy"

The Web did not exist. Which means that the Internet, as most people refer to it, literally did not exist at the time of that case. Even when it did, online piracy would not become a problem until the late 90s, and it is now an permanent part of the Internet, like Youtube and free email.

Also, this is not merely a hypothetical. Every time a console is jailbroken, it's used largely for piracy. Either Hotz knew this and didn't care, or he didn't and is irresponsible and/or dumb.

Your argument is invalid.

Did you ever have a VCR? probably yes maybe still do. Do you use it to sell bootlegs? Or how about your camera have you ever been in a theater recording illegally? Did people do it? yes quite a few. Did you? probably not.

Do you use your computer for piracy? probably not. Do people use their computer for piracy? quite a few do. Does this mean that Dell or Micorsoft or whomever made your computers software and hardware can't trust and should be the legal owner of your machine?

Have you ever actually looked at any of the homebrew applications made? probably not. Are some of the emulators? yes. Are the majority of them emulators or otherwise infringing? no actually pretty unbelievable right take a look at WiiBrew apps most of them are original games or system related.

http://wiibrew.org/wiki/List_of_all_homebrew

Everything that can be used for piracy will be used for it does that mean we should have any less ownership of the things we owned?

 

[IamQ]

To all the people who say that that Hotz and everyone else would just use the jailbreak to pirate, might I remind you people of another case Sony was involved concerning possible copyright infringement.

*Hint* Sony was actually fighting for consumer rights in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc.

Thats different, Sony wanted to make money off of that!

And Sony can't possibly fight for the consumer rights and make money in the process!

 

[JonnWood]

Did you ever have a VCR? probably yes maybe still do.

We barely use it. Funny thing; the local video store back home used to have nothing but pirated movies they recorded off cable, until a crackdown forced a lot of those stores to shut down. The main surviving one, Super Video, still deals openly in pirated DVDs. There are people selling bootlegs on street corners. Incidentally, the Bahamas, where I grew up, is less than a half-hour away from Florida.

Do you use it to sell bootlegs? Or how about your camera have you ever been in a theater recording illegally? Did people do it? yes quite a few. Did you? probably not.

A case can be made for all of those things that the primary use isn't piracy. And lo and behold, it's not.

Do you use your computer for piracy? probably not. Do people use their computer for piracy? quite a few do. Does this mean that Dell or Micorsoft or whomever made your computers software and hardware can't trust and should be the legal owner of your machine?

Toshiba, though I possess the skill to build one myself.

Have you ever actually looked at any of the homebrew applications made? probably not.

I have a DS with a flash cart, which I use for entirely legitimate purposes. I was aware, when I bought it, that I would be in the minority.

Are some of the emulators? yes. Are the majority of them emulators or otherwise infringing? no actually pretty unbelievable right take a look at WiiBrew apps most of them are original games or system related.

Yes, and? Once you have a reliable emulator, you don't usually need to go back and download anything else. Also, the amount of homebrew apps for emulation is not evidence of what people are using the cracked system for.

http://wiibrew.org/wiki/List_of_all_homebrew

Everything that can be used for piracy will be used for it does that mean we should have any less ownership of the things we owned?

Strawman: false binary. There's a legal argument to be made that the EULA meant that he didn't have that right in the first place, and I doubt Sony would've cared as much if GeoHotz hadn't publicized the crack and its method to the extent he did.

Nothing you have written addresses my claim; that Geohotz either knew this would lead to widespread piracy, or he's an idiot. The question is not of freedom and control, but responsibility.

Incidentally, it may have been Hotz efforts to crack the PS3 through OtherOS that got it removed in the first place. And the cracked PS3 means a lot of people on PSN are getting their games disrupted by cheaters. What about their freedom?

 

[Therumancer]

I find this all kind of amusing to be honest. Like most legal proceedings I don't think we can really say what's true and what's not true here, we just have various claims being made by differant groups. For example I'm not up to date with the demands for computer hardware to be turned over and what needs to be specified in a case like this. For all I know nothing in the requests prevented him from removing those paticular components. I notice we haven't heard much from Geohotz's legal defense team other than the motion to dismiss.

As far as him being in South America, well that seems like a good sign he isn't stupid (I don't buy the Spring Break excuse, too coincidental) however staying down there for the long term seems iffy. If he can afford it (or has the sponsorship) dealing with a trial like this strictly through lawyers from a place where you can't be extradited is generally a smart move.

On the other hand, life is cheap in South America. If I was in Sony's shoes right now and I was positive about my accusations, I'd realize I'm not going to get much from this guy. Putting him in jail would be nice, but is hardly going to benefit me in any way as even most hackers are unlikely to be intimidated. I'd probably just pay off some people in the region to shoot a "reality TV" version of the movie "Touristas", put the video up on the internet, and auction his organs off on Ebay. Of course I'd never take official responsibility for it, but people could read between the lines.

Either that or they could just pay someone to knock him over the head and drag him back to the US. Typical bounty hunter thing, they will just claim "no, we just found him wandering around here in the US... all that stuff he says about us drugging him in South America is lies, he apparently tried to sneak back into the US and we caught him by chance.... and well he can't prove otherwise so what does it matter?".

The point is that Sony is one of the biggest, nastiest, and most intrusive megacorperations out there. It's pretty much the real organization that the evil "Japanacorps" in Cyberpunk and Dark Future settings are based on, albiet not quite that exagerrated. It's so huge that despite claims of what it's worth on paper, nobody really knows how big it really is. Sony being involved in everything from consumer electronics, to movie and music production and distribution (on an international level) and everything in between. They probably have their fingers into anything you can think of nowadays, it's not just a matter of what bears the "Sony" label because it owns a lot of other companies.

 

[mirasiel]

To all the people who say that that Hotz and everyone else would just use the jailbreak to pirate, might I remind you people of another case Sony was involved concerning possible copyright infringement.

*Hint* Sony was actually fighting for consumer rights in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc.

Thats different, Sony wanted to make money off of that!

And Sony can't possibly fight for the consumer rights and make money in the process!

I'm never sure any business has *my* interests at heart, all they want is my money and as much of that as they can get.

If a major corp. supports consumer rights its only because its either a side effect of making money or good PR that wont cost them much.

 

[cgentero]

A case can be made for all of those things that the primary use isn't piracy. And lo and behold, it's not.

Yes, and? Once you have a reliable emulator, you don't usually need to go back and download anything else. Also, the amount of homebrew apps for emulation is not evidence of what people are using the cracked system for.

Yes and I suppose people never need to buy another movie or show or song since they can just download them for free on their computer but amazingly people still buy movies and shows and songs. The PS3 regardless if you see at as one is a computer and a computers primary use is not piracy. Before I wasn't pointing out Sony's hypocrisy so much as that the law is on Hotz side, that a jailbroken PS3 has many non infringing uses and users therefore legal.

Strawman: false binary. There's a legal argument to be made that the EULA meant that he didn't have that right in the first place, and I doubt Sony would've cared as much if GeoHotz hadn't publicized the crack and its method to the extent he did.

This would only be a fallacy were not Sony actively trying to force ownership using their EULA.

Nothing you have written addresses my claim; that Geohotz either knew this would lead to widespread piracy, or he's an idiot. The question is not of freedom and control, but responsibility.

Is Sony(or more likely JVC) responsible for those local video stores that used to be around you selling bootlegs because they made it possible, of course not. People have a choice in their life, to pirate or not to pirate, its a persons own responsibility not Hotz

 

[PancakesSUCKTHEYDO]

Please, please let him severely piss off the drug cartel.

 

[brainslurper]

if i buy a ps3, i am physically buying a piece of hardware. with it, i can do whatever i want, so long that it does not break any laws. sony, you are fucking retarded. this is called a company having all the money it wants, being able to attack whoever it wants and win. all this does is make sony look like a dick for using all this money to promote an invalid argument, and hurt some hacker. this is pathetic, sony is pathetic, microsoft is pathetic, i am going to play games on my computer, where no billion dollar corporation is going to knock down my door for something i am legally able to do anyways.

 

[derducken]

To all morons in the thread that said "You only lose PSN access if you don't upgrade" and stuff like that, please, go hang yourselves. Yes, it's my second post on the Escapist, and it's an open attack to all the bozos among you. Ban me.

Do you know why I'm so pissed with you? 'Cause you are the reason misinformation is spread and other people like you, but also gaming sites, tech sites, news sites, even TV stations think of the whole situation as a battle among "Sony and pirates". It's not. So, let's put one thing straight...

When we "pirates" bought our PS3s, it said on its very manual that:

A. It could play Games
B. It could run Linux

OK so far? Do we have a legal right to do BOTH of these things, since that's the very reason we bought the damn console? Yes, I guess we do. Thank you for realizing the obvious. Now, let's go to the reason "we hack our console"...

At some point, Sony thought that Linux was "a security risk", so, it CHANGED THE RULES. Since then, we had to CHOOSE:

A. If we wanted to play Games

=OR=

B. If we wanted to run Linux

Get it? And "how is this enforced", you might ask? Since EVERY SINGLE GAME released since then INCLUDES an update. And if you are on a PS3 with firmware 3.15 (the last one that supports Linux), you meet a screen that states "You have to UPDATE your console to play this game". So, try to put this in your tiny minds:

We have a LEGALLY bought console.
We LEGALLY run Linux in it.
We LEGALLY buy games for it...

BUT WE CAN'T FUCKING RUN THEM.

If we want to run them, like, you know, as in "PLAYING A GAME YOU LEGALLY BOUGHT", we HAVE to upgrade the PS3.

Now, please, would anybody that thinks of us as "pirates", or that "it isn't our right to modify our console", answer to me:

Is it OUR RIGHT to use our console THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO WHEN WE BOUGHT IT?
Let me answer that: YES.

Is it OUR RIGHT to use a LEGAL operating system that SONY TOLD US WE COULD USE on the console?
Let me answer that one too: YES.

Is it OUR RIGHT to BUY games and PLAY them on the console we bought for this very reason?
You know the drill: YES.

So, why the fuck are we pirates, just because we want to legally use our console the way WE PAID TO USE IT? It's not like we STOLE it, or the OS we want to run, or the games.

The problem, you see, is that Sony TOOK AWAY either a) support for Linux or b) support for games. Sony DIDN'T say "you cannot get on PSN", it said "you cannot get on PSN, and if you want to use Linux, DON'T UPDATE YOUR CONSOLE". At the same time it said "Do you want to play games? Then, you HAVE TO UPDATE YOUR CONSOLE".

Now, is that legal? Isn't it fraudulent advertising selling "a box" that is supposed to do "thing A =AND= thing B", and then FORCING the user to choose EITHER "thing A" OR "thing B"?

And so, we are forced to "hack" our console, just to use it "the way it was meant to". THAT's what Geohot wanted to achieve, THAT's what his "hack" is all about (not just "homebrew"). And did you know that he even mentioned it at some point, that if Sony returned support for OtherOS (which was our legal right to use), he WOULDN'T release any "hacks" whatsoever.

And did you realize that apart from Linux, Sony removed support for a heck of a lot of joypads, keyboards, steering wheels and such stuff, "'cause they weren't officially sanctioned and they posed a risk of exploding in our hands", with an update that, oh, what a coincidence, was released just after USB flash drives that could "exploit" the console were released. Truth, as you may understand, was that Sony wanted to ban those "hacking flash drives" but couldn't do so without banning LEGALLY BOUGHT HARDWARE as well. Now, only "official & friends" joypads, joysticks, keyboards and wheels are supported. Did you buy a Mad Katz joypad? A Nyko steering wheel, or something? Stick it where the sun don't shine. Sony doesn't care if you legally bought it with your legally acquired money to legally play games in your legally purchased console: it COULD be used by "some pirates" to "exploit the system". So, the majority of legal users is fucked 'cause Sony couldn't "fight the pirates".

And so, now, it's not only the "choose if you want Linux or Games in your console that we promised would do both", but also "go and buy some new hardware, 'cause we don't like the stuff you used up 'till now". And THAT'S what you support, by taking the side of Sony in this argument, and characterizing Geohot as "a bad pirate" or saying that "the hack will mostly be used to pirate games".

And let's finish this: the next bozo that will say "this will be used for piracy", or that "it will hurt Sony", please, show us some numbers. Show us statistics that show plain and clear that Sony lost XXX money due to the rampant piracy that came after Geohots hack.

'Cause, you know, we CAN'T run Linux, we CAN'T use our legally bought games or accessories with our PS3, we CAN'T use it the way we PAID to use it. And you say that Sony was right?

That's why I'm so pissed with you. All of you that hold this stance against Geohot, stating that "it's the right of Sony to protect their property". You forget that it's also MY right, OUR right, as consumers, to protect OUR property. We BOUGHT the fucking console, and we should be able to USE it, you know.