Update: Reddit Suicide Lawsuit Is a Hoax

[Nuke_em_05]

UPDATE:

Well, story's changed. Still a shame for the actual suicide. However, were it real, I guess there is actually some legal precedent with William Melchert-Dinkel, though that was an extremely intense case.

Though, I see a meta-lesson in this: how do "we" (gamers/nerds/internet-dwellers in general) want to view the internet? Is it "no-man's land"? A place where we oppose things like SOPA and taxation of online sales, while supporting things like internet anonymity. Or is it place subject to "real-world" jurisdiction for things like online harassment?

It seems "we" pick-and-choose based on what favors us the most. Maybe we should pick a perspective and stick to it.

Spoiler: Original Post

It's a shame that he decided to take his own life.

The end.

He decided. His decision. It doesn't matter why he made that decision now, only that he did.

As for the redditors, sure, they're jerks; but they aren't responsible. He chose to take his own life. They didn't make that choice for him. They might not have believed they were actually talking to a suicidal person in the first place. Many run to the internet claiming suicidal intent simply for the attention.

I doubt he ended his life over some comments on the internet. It looks like he was suicidal before he posted it, so there was something else wrong. Pinning it on the wife and the redditors' comments isn't going to lead to an understanding of why he did it. Maybe the family is afraid it could be something that they did or didn't do. I'm not saying it was, what I am saying is that I can understand their position, their guilt. It might be no one's fault but his own, but his family could still feel the guilt anyway, and so they lash out at someone else.

It's just a terrible thing all around.

 

[Tanis]

If someone is so weak that a few posts on REDDIT of all places is the 'final straw'...
I just have no sympathy.

People who commit suicide are cowards, and deserve no sympathy from me.

 

[MrTub]

If someone is so weak that a few posts on REDDIT of all places is the 'final straw'...
I just have no sympathy.

People who commit suicide are cowards, and deserve no sympathy from me.

Please do explain why you think they are cowards?

 

[rcs619]

There is a lot of hindsight blaming of those involved, but you fail to factor in any perspective. They couldn't of possibly known that it was serious, and frankly, if I had to hazard a guess, most such posts aren't. Was telling someone to jump off a building a nice thing to do? Certainly not, but most people assumed it wasn't serious, and I wouldn't of either. If I read that I wouldn't comment or maybe leave a "Oh no don't do it" and forget about it instantly. I can't see any way in which they can be criminally responsible for his death, excluding the Ex-wife of course who should REALLY know better. If you know someone personally you can judge these things, as real or a poor joke, but for someone anonymous on the internet it's unreasonable.

It's really easy to demand that someone pays for this, it's really easy to strip people of their anonymity because they said some stupid things, but I honestly do think that keeping the internet a free and safe medium (a bit of a strawman, I know) is more important than answering this witch hunt. Everyone has had someone say rude things to them on the internet, and most of us have said rude things to another, when someone can be sent to court for an insult of non-libelous nature, it effectively destroys the internet's anonymity.

Yeah, I am a bit torn on this myself. It's sad that things played out this way... but still. How many drama-whores on youtube, 4chan, deviant art, and... just about any other website you can post on go, at one point or another, "I'm seriously going to go kill myself guys!". It's the oldest trick in the book to try and earn attention and/or sympathy on the internet. The anonymity thing does go both ways. Both the trolls and the person being trolled can say absolutely ridiculous things that they don't really mean.

Don't get me wrong, I do not support trolling at all. But really, I don't see how they could be held liable in this guy's death. He came on, and said that he was dead-set on killing himself. He got smartass replies. He's the one that made the choice to come back on that forum to read the replies and respond, and he's the one who inevitably made the choice to end his own life. If I were his family, I'd be looking towards whatever in real-life made him so miserable, instead of some random idiots on the internet.

Basically, what this boils down to. This wasn't a case of cyber-stalking. This wasn't repeated, targeted, personal harassment. This guy came onto a public forum and made a spectacle of himself and he got a bunch of smartass replies. Were the people who told him to just go ahead and do it insensitive and extremely rude? Yes. But I don't think their comments could have had any impact on his decision. If they did, then this guy was seriously unstable to begin with. If it was cyber-stalking, if it was constant harassment over weeks and months, or like that case where that kid killed himself after his roommate filmed him having gay sex and released it online, then yes, they would be very liable. But some smartass comments on a public forum, in a discussion that the suicidal guy instigated and participated in? I just can't agree with them being liable for his death.

If you're going to file a wrongful death lawsuit against someone, say that they were directly responsible for said death... then they need to be directly responsible. I just can't see a few smartass comments by nine random people on the internet being that. I understand the anti-troll righteous fury, but really, this needs to be looked at rationally, and with precedent in mind.

 

[LiquidGrape]

/r/MensRights isn't the place I would go if I were suicidal. Troll's nest full of delusional halfwits bereft of basic human kindness, and being exposed to that would simply compound the issue for me.

Regardless, always sorry to hear a person took his or her life. And the lack of even trace amounts of sympathy from some is very disconcerting.

 

[Threeseventyfive]

snip

^^^ THIS

It is a tragic story, but the Reddit users are not at fault for his death.

Doesn't "freedom of speech" mean anything anymore?

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences of what you say. You can say whatever you like without censorship but your words still have weight and consequence.

Wat?

"You can say whatever you want without censorship but if you say something we don't like you'll be arrested and charged."

I could understand if you said that "inciting suicide" isn't protected speech but what you said didn't make sense.

 

[Akisa]

Anyone find it coincidence that one of the recruiting ((Allegedly by someone on the same panel) places that guy from EVE called people to harrass someone to kill themselves is in trouble because their member harrassed someone to commit suicide?

 

[MonkeyPunch]

you seriously have white people problems

WTF are "white people problems"?

The same applies to high school bullies, gang members and whatever other real life spiteful people you can think of, but you don't see them being sued for acting like they usually do.

But more to the point of this article, if you incite someone to suicide in real life you face consequences, so why shouldn't you for doing the same online?

Also just because crap happens in real life isn't a justification that it should be OK to do online too. (and on a side note you do see them get in to trouble. Bullies getting suspended from school, gang members getting arrested)

 

[MrTub]

If someone is so weak that a few posts on REDDIT of all places is the 'final straw'...
I just have no sympathy.

People who commit suicide are cowards, and deserve no sympathy from me.

Please do explain why you think they are cowards?

Some may say they are cowards because they decided to run from their problems instead of trying to solve them.

I would argue that suicide is a way of solving your problems. Since as far as I know, you cannot have any problems when you are dead, since you are dead...

 

[Yokai]

I wonder how many of you guys blaming the entirety of Reddit for this tragedy are aware of r/suicidewatch [http://www.reddit.com/r/suicidewatch]? Reddit isn't a single entity. There are far more kind, decent, reasonable people on there than trolls. It has its fair share of assholes the world would be better without, but keep in mind the site is designed to allow users to create whatever kind of community they like.

Every Reddit user I can think of hates r/SRS for being a bunch of self-obsessed, hypocritical, bigoted shits. They are bad people, but their little corner of the site isn't actually illegal, so the rest of us have to put up with their bullshit giving the entire site a bad name. Assuming that the entire community is responsible for the actions of a few trolls is like hating an entire country because there are criminals living in it. Think before you type.

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

Oh yay, another bit of ammunition to add for reasons to police the internet and control its freedom. People like that shouldn't have been on the internet or at least unwelcoming sites in the first place. I mean, I wouldn't go to places I feel like the residents could do me harm even if it was legal for me to walk down their streets.

 

[Tanis]

If someone is so weak that a few posts on REDDIT of all places is the 'final straw'...
I just have no sympathy. People who commit suicide are cowards, and deserve no sympathy from me.

Please do explain why you think they are cowards?

Because it's harder to live then it is to die.

Any fool with a gun or knife can kill themselves.
But it takes more courage to face down the darker times in your life and live.

 

[Zer_]

I wonder how many of you guys blaming the entirety of Reddit for this tragedy are aware of r/suicidewatch [http://www.reddit.com/r/suicidewatch]? Reddit isn't a single entity. There are far more kind, decent, reasonable people on there than trolls. It has its fair share of assholes the world would be better without, but keep in mind the site is designed to allow users to create whatever kind of community they like.

Every Reddit user I can think of hates r/SRS for being a bunch of self-obsessed, hypocritical, bigoted shits. They are bad people, but their little corner of the site isn't actually illegal, so the rest of us have to put up with their bullshit giving the entire site a bad name. Assuming that the entire community is responsible for the actions of a few trolls is like hating an entire country because there are criminals living in it. Think before you type.

Exactly. There are a fair share of assholes on this board too. It just so happens that this person got trolled to hell on Reddit.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Firstly, although I'm sure there's far better examples that are more likely to give the suicidal man an extra push, to me,'fuck off and die' is a saying, not a carefully constructed instruction. People getting told to 'go fuck themselves' probably don't hurt themselves trying to do it.

I can see both sides, but free speech does involve speech you don't want to hear. Having said that, if it crosses over into criminal behaviour then it's no longer covered right?

I'm kind of disappointed in the level of heartlessness here however, (yeah look at my name and I'm looking for lovely people, right?) as, sure anyone who wakes up in the morning and gets an email that says 'go kill yourself' then goes and jumps off a bridge is a weak or disturbed person.

Someone however who's had months or years of mental trauma, leading to them feeling they have nothing left to hold onto, then turns (foolishly I fully admit) to an ex wife who forcefully rejects him, then turns to a place that previously gave him many happy hours online, only to be told he's right, he's worthless and may as well give up... well, that's different, you're not putting the noose around his neck, but you're as hell giving the chair a few kicks to see what happens.

Honestly, I don't know if charges should be brought, or if identities should be exposed, but I do know that anyone who'd deliberately try to provoke a suicidal man into that final act is despicable and I fail to understand why or how. How can someone do that and not have his blood on their hands? Hell, I make tasteless jokes at time, my username was chosen as a kind of warning of that, but I never set out to offend, and I'm hugely apologetic if I genuinely offend, as it's not the intent.

 

[Threeseventyfive]

snip

^^^ THIS

It is a tragic story, but the Reddit users are not at fault for his death.

Doesn't "freedom of speech" mean anything anymore?

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences of what you say. You can say whatever you like without censorship but your words still have weight and consequence.

Wat?

You can say whatever you want without censorship but if you say something we don't like you'll be arrested and charged.

I could understand if you said that "inciting suicide" isn't protected speech but what you said didn't make sense.

I think you should look up what "freedom of speech" is before you defile it's very honourable and very well defined nature anymore and before you make any more an ass of yourself.

Making an ass of myself? I was only trying to say that the Reddit users do (or at least should) have a right to say what they said.

Are they assholes? Yes.

Should they be held responsible for someone else taking their own life? No.