Update: Reddit Suicide Lawsuit Is a Hoax
- Thread starter Greg Tito
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I don't think Reddit should be held *liable* for their users actions, but they should be required to give the personal information to the authorities in this case, and I think that some sort of charges should be filed against these despicable people who would goad a man who was clearly in crisis.
Should such actions be taken for every case of "trash-talk"? No, that is ridiculous, but this is a wee bit different.
Should such actions be taken for every case of "trash-talk"? No, that is ridiculous, but this is a wee bit different.
its called free will people, if I tell someone to go kill themselves and they do it that doesn't mean I have any responsibility for it.
I support suicide. If you want to kill yourself, that's fine with me. Perhaps it doesn't need to be encouraged, it is still a mean thing to say. but since when am I required to encourage other people to live? I have problems like everyone else, life for allot of people is terrible. Who am I to stand here and say, no you should live because...It's worth living? its an opinion.
I am so sick of these weak minded people shouting on roof tops, television or the internet for reasons to not do something stupid. Do these human beings do not know that there are people who get trained and paid to deal with these problems?
Why state, hey I'm going to kill myself on the internet? unless your tweeting a therapist I really don't see the point of it.
I don't know that person, but I'm glad they are dead. This is Darwinism at work, Yes it is not easy when a love one dies. Who can truly understand WHY someone decides to take their own life. but if its because he did it to spite people on the internet...well some how I really believe it was a little more than that.
Yet some puke lawyer is suddenly saying we don't legally have the ability to be responsible for our own lives, its other peoples fault?
I think if these people get convicted I might kill myself. whats the point of living when I am responsible for thinking for other people? I'm pretty sure I'd be doomed for failure judging by what happens so far.
When not caring becomes a crime, ready my cell.
I support suicide. If you want to kill yourself, that's fine with me. Perhaps it doesn't need to be encouraged, it is still a mean thing to say. but since when am I required to encourage other people to live? I have problems like everyone else, life for allot of people is terrible. Who am I to stand here and say, no you should live because...It's worth living? its an opinion.
I am so sick of these weak minded people shouting on roof tops, television or the internet for reasons to not do something stupid. Do these human beings do not know that there are people who get trained and paid to deal with these problems?
Why state, hey I'm going to kill myself on the internet? unless your tweeting a therapist I really don't see the point of it.
I don't know that person, but I'm glad they are dead. This is Darwinism at work, Yes it is not easy when a love one dies. Who can truly understand WHY someone decides to take their own life. but if its because he did it to spite people on the internet...well some how I really believe it was a little more than that.
Yet some puke lawyer is suddenly saying we don't legally have the ability to be responsible for our own lives, its other peoples fault?
I think if these people get convicted I might kill myself. whats the point of living when I am responsible for thinking for other people? I'm pretty sure I'd be doomed for failure judging by what happens so far.
When not caring becomes a crime, ready my cell.
They shouldn't be charged, and the case should be dismissed right out. Those comments had, more than likely, nothing to do with this suicide, he already planned to kill himself before the comments were made. It's more likely that he was in a weakened state of mind caused by severe depression. Punishing people, who probably thought he wasn't serious, would be wrong in itself. Punishing these people will do nothing, it won't bring the deceased back, nor will it grant any closure.
No, I can't even bring myself to hate the people who egged him on.
The man was suicidal, and I doubt a couple of comments by Reddit users are what pushed him over the edge. Even if they were, I still wouldn't put the blame on those users, I'd put the blame on whatever caused him to be so unstable in the first place. The only thing I consider them to be guilty of is bad taste, as telling someone to commit suicide is a little low even if you do think it's a joke.
This is just an unfortunate thing that has happened, and I doubt any specific person can be blamed for it (though of course without understanding the victim's personal situation, I can't know that for sure).
The man was suicidal, and I doubt a couple of comments by Reddit users are what pushed him over the edge. Even if they were, I still wouldn't put the blame on those users, I'd put the blame on whatever caused him to be so unstable in the first place. The only thing I consider them to be guilty of is bad taste, as telling someone to commit suicide is a little low even if you do think it's a joke.
This is just an unfortunate thing that has happened, and I doubt any specific person can be blamed for it (though of course without understanding the victim's personal situation, I can't know that for sure).
Doesn't really surprise me to be honest. 'Suicide' is a really complex problem. On one hand, you have people who enjoy whining for attention; but equally present, are those we are legitimately suffering from mental trauma that they cannot break out of (aka: clinical depression). Depending on your personal biases, people will choose one interpretation over the other given a first impression. Personally, I just choose to stay far away as possible, because I don't want to make things worse. Believe me, I want the best for them. But depression is so powerful, the only thing I can do is recommend psychotherapy/psychiatry and hope for the best. It's the same reaction I get when I see homeless people. Futile sympathy.
Unfortunate death... check.
Community outrage... check.
Knee-jerk call for hastily-considered legislation... check.
Erosion of freedom... continuing.
If these people can be held responsible for causing a person's suicide, then so can landlords, banks, spouses, significant others, family members, schoolmates, or anyone else who can give a person a bad enough day that they make it their last.
Were these people assholes? Yes. Were they responsible for the man's death? No. The man was responsible for his own death. Suicide is a choice, and though the assholes contributed to the outcome of the choice, they cannot be held responsible for another man's choice. In a world gone as insane as some people here want it to be, if I was feeling spiteful enough I could just off myself and blame it on whoever I'm pissed at, and it would work.
Look, let's keep some perspective here. You're making the same mistake people often make with sensational deaths. If thousands die every year because of smoking or fatty foods, no one really gets worked up about it. If a couple thousand die in an unprecedented and so far unrepeated incident because of terrorism, then we panic so thoroughly that we start tossing out individual freedoms. Same insane principle at work here. Why don't you ban smoking for the sake of those thousands of people a year before tearing down internet privacy for the sake of the handful of people in an entire decade who, at the suggestion of trolls, take their own lives?
Community outrage... check.
Knee-jerk call for hastily-considered legislation... check.
Erosion of freedom... continuing.
If these people can be held responsible for causing a person's suicide, then so can landlords, banks, spouses, significant others, family members, schoolmates, or anyone else who can give a person a bad enough day that they make it their last.
Were these people assholes? Yes. Were they responsible for the man's death? No. The man was responsible for his own death. Suicide is a choice, and though the assholes contributed to the outcome of the choice, they cannot be held responsible for another man's choice. In a world gone as insane as some people here want it to be, if I was feeling spiteful enough I could just off myself and blame it on whoever I'm pissed at, and it would work.
Look, let's keep some perspective here. You're making the same mistake people often make with sensational deaths. If thousands die every year because of smoking or fatty foods, no one really gets worked up about it. If a couple thousand die in an unprecedented and so far unrepeated incident because of terrorism, then we panic so thoroughly that we start tossing out individual freedoms. Same insane principle at work here. Why don't you ban smoking for the sake of those thousands of people a year before tearing down internet privacy for the sake of the handful of people in an entire decade who, at the suggestion of trolls, take their own lives?
Doesn't surprise me. It was only recently Reddit announced they where "regretfully" banning pictures of underage girls in next to nothing.
^^^ THISblackriderrom said:
It is a tragic story, but the Reddit users are not at fault for his death.
I believe that the Reddit users have, or at least should have a right to troll.
EDIT: disregard former post
What's funny is that suicide mockery actually saved me. I was seriously depressed for several years upon discovern 4chan in 2004. I happened across a thread in which someone was threatening suicide and the denizens of anonymous were gleefully encouraging it. The memes, the callous responses, the funny gif images got me laughing so hard at the prospect of suicide that I started thinking rationally about how ludicrous it would be to kill myself. If any guilt is found in this case, I propose that we track down the dozens of people on that thread and creators of the gifs and honor them the same way we would honor a civilian talking someone down off of a ledge.
tl;dr. It's no one's fault when someone offs themselves except for the person who did it.
tl;dr. It's no one's fault when someone offs themselves except for the person who did it.
Why is it that whenever someone is held accountable for something they do on the internet, people assume it heralds the end of free speech (and the coming of SOPA)?
I give an 'Amen Brother' to this.80Maxwell08 said:
I do dislike Anonymity, I can honestly say that I have never posted something online that I would not say to a persons face. I honestly believe, what you do has consequences, no matter how small or large. It is also a matter of my religious faith, everything I do needs to be for the glory of God. Even just hanging out with friends, I must not bring shame to my God from my actions. With everything I say or do, I must not bring shame to my God from my actions.
Reddit wishes it was 4chan, so much it wishes this.henritje said:
OT: I'm not surprised. Reddit comments have a terrible habit of making everything a joke, regardless of the context. That in itself is despicable to a degree, but the main reason that the community does this is worse. The only reason they do this sort of thing is for upvotes. Oh sure, some people will say "Ah, the community will love this ribbing" but most of them think of one thing and that's a pointless number increasing through mindless drones saying they approve this. The upvote system on Reddit brings nothing but disgusting things, from endless reposts that suck dry the humour from any joke, to events such as this. It is not good in the slightest, just a system that encourages a million people participating in the world's biggest Circle-jerk. An upvote is a low and emotionless act that makes people feel better about themselves until it is given out to the degree that the community becomes greedy and demands it for every single thing they do, reacting with bitter contempt for everyone who dares give them a downvote.
This is the reason I despise the vast majority Reddit's community.
Calumon: ...Jack's being scary and mean... : (
This is the reason I despise the vast majority Reddit's community.
Calumon: ...Jack's being scary and mean... : (
Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences of what you say. You can say whatever you like without censorship but your words still have weight and consequence.Threeseventyfive said:
UPDATE:
Well, story's changed. Still a shame for the actual suicide. However, were it real, I guess there is actually some legal precedent with William Melchert-Dinkel, though that was an extremely intense case.
Though, I see a meta-lesson in this: how do "we" (gamers/nerds/internet-dwellers in general) want to view the internet? Is it "no-man's land"? A place where we oppose things like SOPA and taxation of online sales, while supporting things like internet anonymity. Or is it place subject to "real-world" jurisdiction for things like online harassment?
It seems "we" pick-and-choose based on what favors us the most. Maybe we should pick a perspective and stick to it.
Well, story's changed. Still a shame for the actual suicide. However, were it real, I guess there is actually some legal precedent with William Melchert-Dinkel, though that was an extremely intense case.
Though, I see a meta-lesson in this: how do "we" (gamers/nerds/internet-dwellers in general) want to view the internet? Is it "no-man's land"? A place where we oppose things like SOPA and taxation of online sales, while supporting things like internet anonymity. Or is it place subject to "real-world" jurisdiction for things like online harassment?
It seems "we" pick-and-choose based on what favors us the most. Maybe we should pick a perspective and stick to it.
It's a shame that he decided to take his own life.
The end.
He decided. His decision. It doesn't matter why he made that decision now, only that he did.
As for the redditors, sure, they're jerks; but they aren't responsible. He chose to take his own life. They didn't make that choice for him. They might not have believed they were actually talking to a suicidal person in the first place. Many run to the internet claiming suicidal intent simply for the attention.
I doubt he ended his life over some comments on the internet. It looks like he was suicidal before he posted it, so there was something else wrong. Pinning it on the wife and the redditors' comments isn't going to lead to an understanding of why he did it. Maybe the family is afraid it could be something that they did or didn't do. I'm not saying it was, what I am saying is that I can understand their position, their guilt. It might be no one's fault but his own, but his family could still feel the guilt anyway, and so they lash out at someone else.
It's just a terrible thing all around.
The end.
He decided. His decision. It doesn't matter why he made that decision now, only that he did.
As for the redditors, sure, they're jerks; but they aren't responsible. He chose to take his own life. They didn't make that choice for him. They might not have believed they were actually talking to a suicidal person in the first place. Many run to the internet claiming suicidal intent simply for the attention.
I doubt he ended his life over some comments on the internet. It looks like he was suicidal before he posted it, so there was something else wrong. Pinning it on the wife and the redditors' comments isn't going to lead to an understanding of why he did it. Maybe the family is afraid it could be something that they did or didn't do. I'm not saying it was, what I am saying is that I can understand their position, their guilt. It might be no one's fault but his own, but his family could still feel the guilt anyway, and so they lash out at someone else.
It's just a terrible thing all around.
Yeah, I am a bit torn on this myself. It's sad that things played out this way... but still. How many drama-whores on youtube, 4chan, deviant art, and... just about any other website you can post on go, at one point or another, "I'm seriously going to go kill myself guys!". It's the oldest trick in the book to try and earn attention and/or sympathy on the internet. The anonymity thing does go both ways. Both the trolls and the person being trolled can say absolutely ridiculous things that they don't really mean.godofslack said:
Don't get me wrong, I do not support trolling at all. But really, I don't see how they could be held liable in this guy's death. He came on, and said that he was dead-set on killing himself. He got smartass replies. He's the one that made the choice to come back on that forum to read the replies and respond, and he's the one who inevitably made the choice to end his own life. If I were his family, I'd be looking towards whatever in real-life made him so miserable, instead of some random idiots on the internet.
Basically, what this boils down to. This wasn't a case of cyber-stalking. This wasn't repeated, targeted, personal harassment. This guy came onto a public forum and made a spectacle of himself and he got a bunch of smartass replies. Were the people who told him to just go ahead and do it insensitive and extremely rude? Yes. But I don't think their comments could have had any impact on his decision. If they did, then this guy was seriously unstable to begin with. If it was cyber-stalking, if it was constant harassment over weeks and months, or like that case where that kid killed himself after his roommate filmed him having gay sex and released it online, then yes, they would be very liable. But some smartass comments on a public forum, in a discussion that the suicidal guy instigated and participated in? I just can't agree with them being liable for his death.
If you're going to file a wrongful death lawsuit against someone, say that they were directly responsible for said death... then they need to be directly responsible. I just can't see a few smartass comments by nine random people on the internet being that. I understand the anti-troll righteous fury, but really, this needs to be looked at rationally, and with precedent in mind.