Update: TVTropes Deletes All Rape Tropes

[Clearing the Eye]

Freedom of speech, freedom of information?

Pisha!
That's SO outdated.

I wish people would stop saying things like that.

Freedom of speech has no impact on private groups; they can censor whatever they feel like, whenever they feel like and it has nothing to do with civil liberty. Freedom of information also has nothing to do with pop culture. It describes the right for citizens to have reasonable access to information regarding the operation of the government and the law.

''


This is false. While the law may only regulate the government, the PRINCIPLE is universaly applicable. The concept is in no way tied to a single law, country or government.

I find it a peculiar idea that private groups or organizations cannot impinge on your freedoms or liberties. Of course they can, they do it all the time. The idea that because it is done by a private person or organization it is in some way right is very strange, and I suspect very American. Private groups are equally (and in some ways much more capable) able to take away your liberty as any other group with power over you. And Google definitvily has power over most of us.

However, freedom of speech is of course only your freedom as long as it does not directly impinge other peoples freedoms, like the freedom not to be threatened. Freedom of speech is in no way unfettered, even as a principle.

You're confusing the idea with the actual laws. Freedom of Speech is a thing, not an idea. You're referring to the concept of having free speech.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Freedom of speech, freedom of information?

Pisha!
That's SO outdated.

I wish people would stop saying things like that.

Freedom of speech has no impact on private groups; they can censor whatever they feel like, whenever they feel like and it has nothing to do with civil liberty. Freedom of information also has nothing to do with pop culture. It describes the right for citizens to have reasonable access to information regarding the operation of the government and the law.

''


This is false. While the law may only regulate the government, the PRINCIPLE is universaly applicable. The concept is in no way tied to a single law, country or government.

I find it a peculiar idea that private groups or organizations cannot impinge on your freedoms or liberties. Of course they can, they do it all the time. The idea that because it is done by a private person or organization it is in some way right is very strange, and I suspect very American. Private groups are equally (and in some ways much more capable) able to take away your liberty as any other group with power over you. And Google definitvily has power over most of us.

However, freedom of speech is of course only your freedom as long as it does not directly impinge other peoples freedoms, like the freedom not to be threatened. Freedom of speech is in no way unfettered, even as a principle.

Freedom of speech as a concept does not make any sense when applied to individuals though. It would essentially be freedom from consequence then, and would mean that no person is allowed to say to another person that they must stop doing such and such or else such and such. It would rob people of more liberty than it would give.

 

[Terratina.]

Surpising, the rape topics were handled in a mature way, like a scientist just observing and noting down stuff, while poking it with a ten foot pole, per say. This is a big loss as it is part of fiction and tropes whether you like it or not.

Oh, for the love of God, people. The tropes haven't been deleted, they're just in the process of talking it over with Google and/or modifying the pages to fit guidelines. They'll be back in a few days. Chill out.

Still, the worse could happen though and that's what these people are worried about.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

It seems rape is the Escapist subject of choice this week.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

The nerd/geek community right now is in the middle of a phase of self-examination when it comes to the use of sexual violence as a storytelling device in media for one, and the treatment of women and female characters for another.

I see the deletion of these Rape Tropes articles as a plus point, the gaming community is in a state of self reflection at the minute after E3 and its probably for the best that the gamers formulate their own opinions on this hot topic instead of regugitatating a trope a 14 year old from Alaska wrote in their spare time.

Take some points from a trope yes, but think for yourself.

Can you tell me what happened at E3 with female reporters, I feel like I'm living under a rock or something.

 

[DigitalSushi]

The nerd/geek community right now is in the middle of a phase of self-examination when it comes to the use of sexual violence as a storytelling device in media for one, and the treatment of women and female characters for another.

I see the deletion of these Rape Tropes articles as a plus point, the gaming community is in a state of self reflection at the minute after E3 and its probably for the best that the gamers formulate their own opinions on this hot topic instead of regugitatating a trope a 14 year old from Alaska wrote in their spare time.

Take some points from a trope yes, but think for yourself.

Can you tell me what happened at E3 with female reporters, I feel like I'm living under a rock or something.

It was the Lara Croft Rape scene in the trailer that seemed to have caused a stir, there's a anonymous article about it on this very site, my point was that normally people just regurgitate opinions of articles on Tropes or Wiki then back up their point with said wiki article.

Now people can think for themselves, for the 5 minutes at least until all the pages are cached and published somewhere else.

Also the rape scene probably made people who been attacked pretty uncomfortable.

 

[Dragonsoulq]

Guy, guys chill- Its all back up, TVtropes has simply pulled Adsense from the pages in question.

 

[him over there]

I don't see how discussing rape-related content or its use is automatically deemed "explicit" content, especially when certain explanations can actually be informative and help someone better understand a reference/use but I'm not surprised TVTropes decided to remove everything.

I must have been living under an e-rock recently 'cause this sudden focus on rape-related... anything on the web is something I completely missed, just trying to catch up.

The thing is the tvtropes userbase was filled with rape apologists and fetishists who were constantly cluttering up the trope pages. Deleting the rape and pedophilia tropes was merely dealing with the symptoms and not the disease. Tropes like mind rape are gone not because they mentioned rape but because the site owner Fast Eddie is a lazy coder who just did a delete all for all tropes with the word rape in them. This is why tropes like All rapists are murderers are still up.

Something Awful has done a few threads on tropers and their site [link*right here*]http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3470622&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1[/link], if you get into the later portions of the thread it becomes pretty clear that the situation isn't as clean cut as google doesn't like rape. It's more like google doesn't want to associate itself with a site that has a massive directory to works with rape in it and also put there by people who are aroused by that sort of thing. It's an image problem.

Freedom of speech, freedom of information?

Pisha!
That's SO outdated.

I wish people would stop saying things like that.

Freedom of speech has no impact on private groups; they can censor whatever they feel like, whenever they feel like and it has nothing to do with civil liberty. Freedom of information also has nothing to do with pop culture. It describes the right for citizens to have reasonable access to information regarding the operation of the government and the law.

''


This is false. While the law may only regulate the government, the PRINCIPLE is universaly applicable. The concept is in no way tied to a single law, country or government.

I find it a peculiar idea that private groups or organizations cannot impinge on your freedoms or liberties. Of course they can, they do it all the time. The idea that because it is done by a private person or organization it is in some way right is very strange, and I suspect very American. Private groups are equally (and in some ways much more capable) able to take away your liberty as any other group with power over you. And Google definitvily has power over most of us.

However, freedom of speech is of course only your freedom as long as it does not directly impinge other peoples freedoms, like the freedom not to be threatened. Freedom of speech is in no way unfettered, even as a principle.

Freedom of speech as a concept does not make any sense when applied to individuals though. It would essentially be freedom from consequence then, and would mean that no person is allowed to say to another person that they must stop doing such and such or else such and such. It would rob people of more liberty than it would give.

Ironically that is what tvtropes seems to think on the subject regarding speech. Their no negativity policy essentially says that if you call people out for being horrible you are in the wrong. I remember on multiple occasions they had blatant racists and when people came out and said "dude that isn't cool cut that shit out" they were banned, not the racists for breaking the no negativity policy.

 

[Clarste]

Like hell there is. The lunatics are running the asylum over there - almost everybody who has invested a significant amount of time cleaning the site up has either been banned from the site or simply given up on it altogether.

Because even though it is ostensibly and open wiki, because of site policies ("no notability", "no negativity" and especially "don't be a dick") it's difficult to clean up bad content, and almost impossible to do so effectively without interacting with the existing toxic and dysfunctional troper community.

...just go to the Trope Repair Shop. They're constantly revamping tropes, cutting examples. Many would argue too often. Frankly, there seem to be contradictory stereotypes of TvTropes in play at the same time. Are they censoring too much or are they tacitly encouraging toxic editors? It can't be both. More likely, the answer is what I said: that it's a huge group of people working at odds with each other.

And seriously, it's not that hard to just go in and remove an example. I do it all the time. Just don't be a dick.

I really don't care about the minority of "creeps", they can have their opinion too - as long as more level-headed people are allowed to openly debate with and criticise them. Ahh yes I remember Chagen 46 well. He was an amusing chap.

Chagen was banned for posting child porn in the forums. I know this well, because I'm the one who reported him after unknowingly clicking on the unmarked link. And that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. He was an amusing chap, in a very particular sense, but I really can't blame Eddie for banning him.

(with Visual Novels like Fate/Stay Night on it, that basically has less than 0,1% of sex in it's plot, but is technically categorized as an "eroge" for them.)

Fate/Stay Night is back. It was removed in the initial purge, but the way it works is that works were removed and then get brought back by petition and some mods going over the actual content. I suppose you could disagree with this way of doing things, but the goal was simply to eliminate all pornographic content to get the ads back. If something's not actually pornographic but was merely hit by the crossfire, that's unfortunate but it's being dealt with. Frankly, I feel kind of sorry for the mods tasked with doing this.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

The nerd/geek community right now is in the middle of a phase of self-examination when it comes to the use of sexual violence as a storytelling device in media for one, and the treatment of women and female characters for another.

I see the deletion of these Rape Tropes articles as a plus point, the gaming community is in a state of self reflection at the minute after E3 and its probably for the best that the gamers formulate their own opinions on this hot topic instead of regugitatating a trope a 14 year old from Alaska wrote in their spare time.

Take some points from a trope yes, but think for yourself.

Can you tell me what happened at E3 with female reporters, I feel like I'm living under a rock or something.

It was the Lara Croft Rape scene in the trailer that seemed to have caused a stir, there's a anonymous article about it on this very site, my point was that normally people just regurgitate opinions of articles on Tropes or Wiki then back up their point with said wiki article.

Now people can think for themselves, for the 5 minutes at least until all the pages are cached and published somewhere else.

Also the rape scene probably made people who been attacked pretty uncomfortable.

What about female reporters? I didn't hear anything about that.

 

[MammothBlade]

Chagen was banned for posting child porn in the forums. I know this well, because I'm the one who reported him after unknowingly clicking on the unmarked link. And that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. He was an amusing chap, in a very particular sense, but I really can't blame Eddie for banning him.

So you're that Clarste?

Yeah, I know he was banned. And that was for NSFW Touhou drawings, was it not? It doesn't make me think any less of him, either way.

I have to be one of the most drama tolerant people out there when it comes to such antics. People such as Chagen are not annoying, bothersome, or outrageous, just sources of endless laughter and schadenfreude.

 

[DigitalSushi]

The nerd/geek community right now is in the middle of a phase of self-examination when it comes to the use of sexual violence as a storytelling device in media for one, and the treatment of women and female characters for another.

I see the deletion of these Rape Tropes articles as a plus point, the gaming community is in a state of self reflection at the minute after E3 and its probably for the best that the gamers formulate their own opinions on this hot topic instead of regugitatating a trope a 14 year old from Alaska wrote in their spare time.

Take some points from a trope yes, but think for yourself.

Can you tell me what happened at E3 with female reporters, I feel like I'm living under a rock or something.

It was the Lara Croft Rape scene in the trailer that seemed to have caused a stir, there's a anonymous article about it on this very site, my point was that normally people just regurgitate opinions of articles on Tropes or Wiki then back up their point with said wiki article.

Now people can think for themselves, for the 5 minutes at least until all the pages are cached and published somewhere else.

Also the rape scene probably made people who been attacked pretty uncomfortable.

What about female reporters? I didn't hear anything about that.

I don't know, did I say anything about female reporters?, I mean its understandable that some people were offended by it. Also people seem to be offended by one of the Devs making very silly remarks that the rape scene will make you want to protect Lara Croft... I'm dude, just don't say anything

To be fair he could have said anything and he would have been shot down because he's on the Dev Team, people go on the defensive claiming he's naturally biased (which is true but why the hell wouldn't he be?, its not like he's going to say, "you should skip half the game I made cos its a bit shit)

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

The nerd/geek community right now is in the middle of a phase of self-examination when it comes to the use of sexual violence as a storytelling device in media for one, and the treatment of women and female characters for another.

I see the deletion of these Rape Tropes articles as a plus point, the gaming community is in a state of self reflection at the minute after E3 and its probably for the best that the gamers formulate their own opinions on this hot topic instead of regugitatating a trope a 14 year old from Alaska wrote in their spare time.

Take some points from a trope yes, but think for yourself.

Can you tell me what happened at E3 with female reporters, I feel like I'm living under a rock or something.

It was the Lara Croft Rape scene in the trailer that seemed to have caused a stir, there's a anonymous article about it on this very site, my point was that normally people just regurgitate opinions of articles on Tropes or Wiki then back up their point with said wiki article.

Now people can think for themselves, for the 5 minutes at least until all the pages are cached and published somewhere else.

Also the rape scene probably made people who been attacked pretty uncomfortable.

What about female reporters? I didn't hear anything about that.

I don't know, did I say anything about female reporters?, I mean its understandable that some people were offended by it. Also people seem to be offended by one of the Devs making very silly remarks that the rape scene will make you want to protect Lara Croft... I'm dude, just don't say anything

To be fair he could have said anything and he would have been shot down because he's on the Dev Team, people go on the defensive claiming he's naturally biased (which is true but why the hell wouldn't he be?, its not like he's going to say, "you should skip half the game I made cos its a bit shit)

You didn't mention it, but it was brought up this week andd I felt like there was something that I was missing.

 

[DigitalSushi]

The nerd/geek community right now is in the middle of a phase of self-examination when it comes to the use of sexual violence as a storytelling device in media for one, and the treatment of women and female characters for another.

I see the deletion of these Rape Tropes articles as a plus point, the gaming community is in a state of self reflection at the minute after E3 and its probably for the best that the gamers formulate their own opinions on this hot topic instead of regugitatating a trope a 14 year old from Alaska wrote in their spare time.

Take some points from a trope yes, but think for yourself.

Can you tell me what happened at E3 with female reporters, I feel like I'm living under a rock or something.

It was the Lara Croft Rape scene in the trailer that seemed to have caused a stir, there's a anonymous article about it on this very site, my point was that normally people just regurgitate opinions of articles on Tropes or Wiki then back up their point with said wiki article.

Now people can think for themselves, for the 5 minutes at least until all the pages are cached and published somewhere else.

Also the rape scene probably made people who been attacked pretty uncomfortable.

What about female reporters? I didn't hear anything about that.

I don't know, did I say anything about female reporters?, I mean its understandable that some people were offended by it. Also people seem to be offended by one of the Devs making very silly remarks that the rape scene will make you want to protect Lara Croft... I'm dude, just don't say anything

To be fair he could have said anything and he would have been shot down because he's on the Dev Team, people go on the defensive claiming he's naturally biased (which is true but why the hell wouldn't he be?, its not like he's going to say, "you should skip half the game I made cos its a bit shit)

You didn't mention it, but it was brought up this week andd I felt like there was something that I was missing.

LOL, now I feel like I'm missing out on something, damn it Helm!

Like I said earlier, someone at E3 was bound to be offended by it, and journalists descend on E3 like a rash, so your bound to get at least one Female Journalist getting offended, its the law of averages at work.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

I find this whole thing hilarious. Everybodies having an existential meltdown over something that should be obvious and easy to understand.

 

[jaymiechan]

Like I said earlier, someone at E3 was bound to be offended by it, and journalists descend on E3 like a rash, so your bound to get at least one Female Journalist getting offended, its the law of averages at work.

You say that like it should be something only female journalists would get offended by, or just a small minority would, instead of it being something that EVERYONE should be offended by.

 

[Clarste]

Chagen was banned for posting child porn in the forums. I know this well, because I'm the one who reported him after unknowingly clicking on the unmarked link. And that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. He was an amusing chap, in a very particular sense, but I really can't blame Eddie for banning him.

So you're that Clarste?

Yeah, I know he was banned. And that was for NSFW Touhou drawings, was it not? It doesn't make me think any less of him, either way.

I have to be one of the most drama tolerant people out there when it comes to such antics. People such as Chagen are not annoying, bothersome, or outrageous, just sources of endless laughter and schadenfreude.

I'm not sure I want to know what "that Clarste" means.

Honestly, I've had laughs at his expense in the past, and it's not like I was trying to get him banned, I'm just not surprised that he was. Seems like reasonably bannable behavior. Not exactly the work of fascist moderation.

It does seem like a lot of this hubbub is coming from banned users. I won't say that all bans are deserved, but most of them seem like they are. Like the guy who kept adding rants praising North Korea to random articles.

 

[DigitalSushi]

Like I said earlier, someone at E3 was bound to be offended by it, and journalists descend on E3 like a rash, so your bound to get at least one Female Journalist getting offended, its the law of averages at work.

You say that like it should be something only female journalists would get offended by, or just a small minority would, instead of it being something that EVERYONE should be offended by.

Sorry [user]jaymiechan[/user] I didn't mean it to come out like I was saying only one female journalist got offended or would be offended by it, I'm just saying to Helm that while I don't know the story about Female Journalists getting really offended by it I'm not surprised that there was people offended.

Sorry about that Jaymiechan, just my poor English (not my first language) letting me down in explaining myself, although me using the example of one fem journo probably didn't help.

As for the game, maybe if Crystal Dynamics did a "No Russian" type thing where you can skip it that would be cool and might help with their handling of this issue, I played No Russian and being a pacifist I really really didn't like that level, the only person I shoot was a mercy kill on No Russian.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I'd argue that proper understanding isn't at all hampered by categorization. I'm a physicist, and physics is pretty much nothing but categorization.

There's pretty much no commonality between physics and literature though. Physics is expressed in the language of mathematics, and a thing once defined is fixed in meaning. The gravitational constant is always the gravitational constant no matter where it pops up. Something as apparently simple as rain in fiction might mean any one of a hundred things depending on the context.

You can't understand literature (used as broadly as possible to encompass all works of narrative communication no matter their form or quality) by categorising it because any given element might change radically depending on the presence or absence of other elements. Things don't stay in their neat little categories.

 

[jaymiechan]

As for the game, maybe if Crystal Dynamics did a "No Russian" type thing where you can skip it that would be cool and might help with their handling of this issue, I played No Russian and being a pacifist I really really didn't like that level, the only person I shoot was a mercy kill on No Russian.

Maybe so regarding the gameplay itself, but that still would not excuse Ron Rosenberg's quote, saying that rape is a character growth "evolution" thing. No way, no how. It's something that, even after a year of therapy to finally stop blaming yourself, you are still dealing with fallout years later.

Given this sort of thing, and then TVTropes removal of evidence of just how...damnably prevalent it is, it is repugnant.