US 2024 Presidential Election

Phoenixmgs

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Looks like Australia really did make the right choice with that social media ban before the age of 16.
Really nobody should be using social media...

You guys are legit worried about Trump being a dictator and some document that's older than you are probably. Trump was already president, been there, done that. The democrats don't even believe this shit. Why are the other democrats positioning themselves for 2028 if they legit think there won't be an election in 2028?
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Really nobody should be using social media...

You guys are legit worried about Trump being a dictator and some document that's older than you are probably. Trump was already president, been there, done that.
Yeah and when he had to stop being president he tried doing a coup to prevent it. Why did we have faith in his democratic credentials again?

I know Americans have this reputation of not knowing anything, and not caring to know anything beyond their borders but if Trump follows the playbook of Erdogan who's striving for dictatorship, Orban who's striving for dictatorship and Putin who succeeded in getting his dictatorship then why is there any reason to assume that of all the far right demagogues Trump alone would be different?
 

Trunkage

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Yes and no.

When Milei was elected we were at 250% of (inter)annual inflation and a monthly 20-25%. Today it's closer to 100% annual, and last month we had 3.5%, lowest in 3 years.

This is a direct result of axing public spending by a third, removing tons of state subsidies and stopping the rampant emission of currency. Since 1960 Argentina has operated at a fiscal deficit but for six years, and for the first time in a while the country finally has a fiscal surplus.

This was largely achieved by a brutal devaluation of the peso though, as well as the removal of subsidies and price regulations, which means public consumption has plummeted and poverty has shot the hell up (from 40% to 52% since Milei was elected).

Meanwhile the most annoying taxes remain untouched. Buying dollars remains the best way to actually save your money, and that's still something only a few are allowed and only so many per month. There's still a 60% overcharge whether you buy a dollar at your bank or spend it online.

So it's hard to gauge. On paper the country is supposedly economically on the up and up, but climbing out of 250% of inflation right now doesn't feel much different than living with it. The consensus is that it'll take time and it was always going to take time.
So similar state to the Biden's economy? On paper, number goes up. But really shit for everyone under the top 10%. Because we have learnt that the GDP isn't a good indication of the health of the economy.

(I suppose I should say, it was similar situation to before Milei took over, just the focus has been shifted)
 

Trunkage

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I regularly acknowledge when something I say wasn't right or didn't pan out. I also don't predict things like "Trump will mass arrest poor people and force them to work in place of illegal migrants", so I'm not wrong terribly often.

Others here say ridiculous, outlandish nonsense, and never consider if it doesn't come true.
I mean, I'd agree, I don't think there are going to be mass arrest. If anything like this would happen it would be something like 'get a job or lose benefits.' The other thing they can do is take control of unions and you can't have a job unless your in a union. If you don't follow whatever the boss says, the union fires you etc.

All I have seen from you is clearly wrong actions that you justify as good. So I don't know why you'd claim that.

Lastly, outlandish and ridiculous claims won an election. Why shouldn't everyone do it now?

Edit: As an example, you stated that medical exemptions don't need to have any more clarity. But there is clearly confusion so more clarity would help. The stakes are high because people don't want to go to jail over a misinterpretation of the law. If the stakes were low, then mistakes could be made to test where the line was. This same process happens with every law as laws can only be written in so much detail. People then test the laws to understand where the line is... but if there is jail time involved, there is less testing of the line. That's the whole point of jail time

That what most of the cases that go before any Supreme Court (state or national). They are gnerally corner cases that outline where the line is for each individual law (or conflicts between multiple laws)

The politicians job is to explain how the laws affect you in real life situations, including a hundred different variables. They might not do this personally, they might have press briefings, use agencies, have websites or use someone with the AG's office, etc (each situation is different). And they need to explain it a thousand times because people won't find out information on their own, they just research when it's necessary
 
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Trunkage

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This was a weird way for you to tell me you lied about me saying Trump was the lesser evil
Hey Tippy, I'm assuming that you weren't quoting MAGA or Trump when you were talking to me last weekend. If you were quoting them, ignore the next part.

In all seriousness, I would suggest you look at Trump or MAGA says and what he says. I think you'd find things you like. Trump won because he says he wants to burn the whole system down, there is nothing of value and it's a better world without America involved.
 

tippy2k2

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Hey Tippy, I'm assuming that you weren't quoting MAGA or Trump when you were talking to me last weekend. If you were quoting them, ignore the next part.

In all seriousness, I would suggest you look at Trump or MAGA says and what he says. I think you'd find things you like. Trump won because he says he wants to burn the whole system down, there is nothing of value and it's a better world without America involved.
This might sound crazy but my definition of burning the system down is to help people by forcing politicians to work for the people rather than for big corporations and lining their own pockets. I know it's very unlikely that we'd get to the point of burning down the system that we'd actually dismantle Capitalism but that would be the ideal goal of burning down the system.

When Trump says he wants to "burn the system down", he's talking about burning everyone else around him while he gobbles up more power, influence, and money.

You either just plain don't read what I say or you have zero ability to understand what I actually say. I'm not sure which one would be worse...
 
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Trunkage

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This might sound crazy but my definition of burning the system down is to help people by forcing politicians to work for the people rather than for big corporations and lining their own pockets. I know it's very unlikely that we'd get to the point of burning down the system that we'd actually dismantle Capitalism but that would be the ideal goal of burning down the system.

When Trump says he wants to "burn the system down", he's talking about burning everyone else around him while he gobbles up more power, influence, and money.

You either just plain don't read what I say or you have zero ability to understand what I actually say. I'm not sure which one would be worse...
I'm pointing out what you are blind to. I know... you don't see it. It's kinda the point

You not really worried about burning things down. You just worried about what happens afterwards. That's not the same thing

Most of people who voted for Trump have just given up on caring about the second sentence. It now just better to burn. Your just a step away... and you know they only people who are ever going to do the burning is someone signed off by either the GOP or DNC

Whoever is the leader doing the burning will enrich themselves. It doesn't matter if it's Biden, Trump, Stein or anyone else. I could say that Stein might be better than Trump but I couldn't say I would trust her in any shape or form. I don't know why you are worried about that. It will be someone awful and it definitely won't be helping you

The US is in this current position because leader DID burn it down already and propped themselves up. This is the expected result

Now, this isn't a reason to keep the current system. It's awful and leaders enrich themselves. It's not a advocating of incrementalism. Leaders will enrich themselves. It's a lose, lose, lose situation. By design
 

tippy2k2

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I'm pointing out what you are blind to. I know... you don't see it. It's kinda the point

You not really worried about burning things down. You just worried about what happens afterwards. That's not the same thing

Most of people who voted for Trump have just given up on caring about the second sentence. It now just better to burn. Your just a step away... and you know they only people who are ever going to do the burning is someone signed off by either the GOP or DNC

Whoever is the leader doing the burning will enrich themselves. It doesn't matter if it's Biden, Trump, Stein or anyone else. I could say that Stein might be better than Trump but I couldn't say I would trust her in any shape or form. I don't know why you are worried about that. It will be someone awful and it definitely won't be helping you

The US is in this current position because leader DID burn it down already and propped themselves up. This is the expected result

Now, this isn't a reason to keep the current system. It's awful and leaders enrich themselves. It's not a advocating of incrementalism. Leaders will enrich themselves. It's a lose, lose, lose situation. By design
Yes yes, I'm the blind one. You're the one that just wants to keep doing the same thing over and over and over again and keep being shocked that it keeps being the same exact result.
 

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Yeah, voting blue no matter what tells them their policies are wanted. Better for them to fail and reflect. If they won, we'd be even deeper in the shitter in the long run, even farther right.
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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So similar state to the Biden's economy? On paper, number goes up. But really shit for everyone under the top 10%. Because we have learnt that the GDP isn't a good indication of the health of the economy.

(I suppose I should say, it was similar situation to before Milei took over, just the focus has been shifted)
Yeah, it's a case of we won't get to reap the benefits of a shock doctrine until it's too late to truly appreciate. You spend so many years eating shit while paying for the damages of the preceding government, so to speak, that by the time you're more or less caught up you end up voting for the other party just as a personal fuck you. Story of the country. GDP is down anyway.

You think 7 points of inflation is no way to live, try imagine what it's like with 200 points.
 

Elijin

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Yes yes, I'm the blind one. You're the one that just wants to keep doing the same thing over and over and over again and keep being shocked that it keeps being the same exact result.
On top of it all, he's not American. He's preaching at you from a country with preferential voting, where he's never even had to consider whether his values or the greater good/lesser evil should come first, because he gets to vote both.
 

Mister Mumbler

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Don't you apologize
Funnily enough my immediate reaction to reading this was a little "oh, sorry". Just who I am (as a tangent towards this ghost town of internet of yore, I caught the 'Sorry Cop-o-type' in Disco Elysium right away when I played through that a couple of months ago, great game). And my sympathies in regards to your family. I won't be so crass as to say you're 'lucky' that they're still at least at the cable news stage (as bad as Newsmax is, which is max), so I'll just say that try keep them from the internet side of things. You'll be shocked how quickly "liberal globalist agenda" turns to "The Jews".

But man,
She did real bad this year. My copium is that people listened to the centrists who said voting for her was useless and so on, so they just all went and voted Trump.
This makes no sense. You mean the voters that you keep (rightfully) reaming the Democrats for trying to go after? Or hell, what is with this "this year"? While yes, she has done abjectly terrible this year (so terrible in fact that she is in real danger of losing to Robert fucking Kennedy), you say this like she or her party have actually done well, and Jesus dude, they have never done well. Screw the 5% threshold, it'd be a record setting day if they hit 2. They have no seats in the Senate, or the House, and hold less than 200 elected positions across the entire country. The uncomfortable truth you don't seem to be getting, is that they aren't a party, they are the idea of a party. Because unfortunately,
Winning that ballot initiative (and stopping the others) is far more important than who wins the presidency.
This isn't true. The president picks who sits on the Supreme Court, who have the power to strike down such initiatives (like they rightfully did with the aforementioned SB1070), and that's before the fact that the president now has executive power to do whatever the hell they want now (due to said Supreme Court). For as much shit as the Dems get for running a neutered, mealy mouthed campaign, where the hell was Stein? The left is so fucking starved of meat that even calling what was going on 'weird' was enough to set people off, all Stein had to do was basically walk out, go "look at these idiots" and dabbed, and steam roll the election. Unless you think that the key to success is to be a huge, million dollar political apparatus like the other two parties.

But look, I'm not saying I have any answers to this shit at all, it's just that this whole "nee-ner nee-ner, told you so" attitude is getting obnoxious and hypocritical. First off:
Both of them are evil. I refuse to vote for evil period, even if Harris is a "Lesser Evil". I've been very consistent in that (especially when you guys have decided that Genocide counts as a lesser evil).
Dude, genocide was never the lesser evil, the problem is that between the two front running, genocide supporting parties, the one that has openly stated a desire to start ethnically cleansing the United States is the objectively worse option. And when you sit there and look at both of those and go
kgv4jjsanm3a1.gif

People don't look at that and go "wow, what a moral and upstanding person, I wish our politicians had character like them", you just come off with this dismissive air of "whatever, not my problem", which becomes particularly rank because as (I'm presuming here since I am also) a straight white male with leftist ideals, you're not in any real danger right now. Especially while trying to add qualifiers to burning everything down.

Or this whole "Dems trying to play the blame game" shtick while simultaneously trying to constantly blame the Greens non-exisitance politically entirely on the Dems, like they would have 80mil+ votes if only the Democratic party didn't exist. And speaking of, you keep saying that now they should take the lesson that they should move left, but from my own cynical view where would you get this idea from? Like you keep saying, all of Steins votes wouldn't split the deficit, so why would they try and chase them? There isn't even the evil option of trying to peel her voters away to cripple her because they just aren't there. You complain about how Democrats gave so little of a fuck about genocide, meanwhile apparently the left couldn't even give enough of a fuck to vote for her.

Hell, even watching you giggle at that Simpsons reference from @hanselthecaretaker2 like you haven't been doing literally the exact same is buck wild.
On top of it all, he's not American. He's preaching at you from a country with preferential voting, where he's never even had to consider whether his values or the greater good/lesser evil should come first, because he gets to vote both.
On the one hand sure, but on the other, is it any less condescending than to try and blame our fucked up political system on them?
 
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Phoenixmgs

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You might as well drop the mask now too, you embarrassing little rat.
I voted for the best candidate, they came in 5th.

It's not just on twitter.

View attachment 12211

You do realize they are either trolls or represent less than 1% of the population, right?

Yeah and when he had to stop being president he tried doing a coup to prevent it. Why did we have faith in his democratic credentials again?

I know Americans have this reputation of not knowing anything, and not caring to know anything beyond their borders but if Trump follows the playbook of Erdogan who's striving for dictatorship, Orban who's striving for dictatorship and Putin who succeeded in getting his dictatorship then why is there any reason to assume that of all the far right demagogues Trump alone would be different?
Again, democrats don't even believe this, why should I? Trump is not a fascist or a dictator. It's literally the same as the other side saying Harris/Biden are socialists/communists. I'll give you $100 if there's not an election in 2028.