US 2024 Presidential Election

tstorm823

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Blue states have greater GDP per capita than red states, and pay more in taxes than red states. Red states would be broke if they weren't constantly getting money siphoned to them from blue states.
How much of that "money syphoning" is agricultural subsidies?
 

Schadrach

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You could think of a sort of cowboy ideal; a hero who goes out there and does what a man's gotta do, who fights for his community against the forces of evil and disorder, and shoots the bad guys dead. There are many, many people who dream of having that opportunity.
Sure, sure, I could maybe see the appeal in that notion, except that also doesn't describe the events that happened. Like, at all.
 
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Seanchaidh

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Sure, sure, I could maybe see the appeal in that notion, except that also doesn't describe the events that happened. Like, at all.
He shot BLM protestors. So some people (right-wing idiots) will see it that way.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Blue states have better education funding leading to higher education performance.


Murder statistics in red states are 33% higher than in blue states.


Red states are bigger polluters than blue states.


Blue states have greater GDP per capita than red states, and pay more in taxes than red states. Red states would be broke if they weren't constantly getting money siphoned to them from blue states.


People in blue states have higher life expectancy than those living in red states.


Now obviously these differences aren't all down to politics and who the ruling party is. Many of these discrepancies can be attributed to environmental issues inherent to certain areas, but generally speaking the point still stands, Blue states tend to be better places to live. The reason people move to red states is because they made their money in blue states and they can live cheap in red states. It's the same reason that Americans retire in places like Thailand and Vietnam, their money goes further there and they are willing to put up with some discomfort because of that.

Generally my big problem with Democrats isn't that they're doing the objectively wrong thing, it's that they're doing the right thing in a stupid and inefficient way. Yes there's corruption in the Democratic party, with people like Nancy Peloci and other Democratic leaders using their positions of power to enrich themselves illegally through things like insider trading, but that's also not a partisan issue, that's an "all politicians are craven pieces of shit" issue.

On the other hand, Republicans seem to pick the worst option more often than not.
Murder is only a part of both the violent crime and general crime picture. Again, some people have to ask an employee to get a toothbrush out of a locked case for example. The following from that article is essentially misinformation:
"Violent crime and homicide rates both fell in 2022. Preliminary data for 2023 shows that hopeful trend accelerating. But if you listened to Republicans, you would think crime is skyrocketing, specifically in blue states and cities."

Not really what that economic article was saying:
"Whatever the cause, the study demonstrates that the current polarization in US politics is misguided and counterproductive. Economically speaking, the red states benefit from the blue states through government redistribution and transfers of capital from blue state savers to red state investments via capital markets.

Blue states benefit from red states, on the other hand, which fuel their higher growth and higher income with attractive investment opportunities as well as cheaper labor and lower prices."

People in red states eat less healthy. Nutrition is something sorely lacking as being taught to kids in school, I had to unlearn basically everything from school and learn on my own what is good and bad for you.

The reason people are moving out of blue states is the cost of living is too high. It's not because they made their money and buying mansions to retire in red states. It's normal people being tried of paying exorbitant rates for renting or owning a house.

Democrats tend to change things for no reason and make things worse like asinine crime or drug policies. Sure, they usually have at least somewhat good intentions but you know what they say about good intentions, right?

Yes, it was based on Romneycare. Now ask yourself why Obama proposing a national version of a state healthcare system created under a Republican governor would invoke such dire hatred from Republicans?
IIRC, it was probably the public option and the tax if you didn't have insurance. Also, obviously the fact that it's a democratic policy and must be opposed. Same reason why democrats in America were literally the only faction that kept schools closed in the entire world, can't open school because republicans are for that. It's kinda funny that the same think-tank the wrote Project 2025 essentially wrote Obamacare.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Murder is only a part of both the violent crime and general crime picture. Again, some people have to ask an employee to get a toothbrush out of a locked case for example. The following from that article is essentially misinformation:
"Violent crime and homicide rates both fell in 2022. Preliminary data for 2023 shows that hopeful trend accelerating. But if you listened to Republicans, you would think crime is skyrocketing, specifically in blue states and cities."
I didn't say anything about violent crime, or crime in general. I talked about murder.

Not really what that economic article was saying:
"Whatever the cause, the study demonstrates that the current polarization in US politics is misguided and counterproductive. Economically speaking, the red states benefit from the blue states through government redistribution and transfers of capital from blue state savers to red state investments via capital markets.

Blue states benefit from red states, on the other hand, which fuel their higher growth and higher income with attractive investment opportunities as well as cheaper labor and lower prices."
You mean the exact same relationship that the US has with third world countries? Gee I'm sure red states are excited to be the 3rd world of the US, and that's something that those in charge of those states should really be proud of.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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I didn't say anything about violent crime, or crime in general. I talked about murder.



You mean the exact same relationship that the US has with third world countries? Gee I'm sure red states are excited to be the 3rd world of the US, and that's something that those in charge of those states should really be proud of.
If you wanna point out very specific things that are better/worse, then we can do this all day.

Also, that narrative about blue states bailing out red states is hardly true.

Here's the fiscal stability rankings (ton of red states doing better than blue states). I used to live in Illinois and it's a joke state, especially Cook County.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Here's the fiscal stability rankings (ton of red states doing better than blue states). I used to live in Illinois and it's a joke state, especially Cook County.
I'm curious as to how they calculate and justify these rankings.

California is the 5th largest economy in the world. California's economy literally dwarfs that of actual countries. It has a larger economy than India, the UK, every country in the EU except Germany. It represents 14% of the total economy of the US. It has the highest economic output of any state in the US. Somehow your rankings are putting it 42nd in terms of "fiscal stability?" Yeah I gotta call bullshit.

 

Schadrach

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Regardless of who wins, there's going to be a significant faction claiming the election was stolen/hacked/cheated or some variation thereof. That's just how things roll now. Maybe this time it will be something more entertaining than Russians shitposting on social media or mail in ballots.

You mean the exact same relationship that the US has with third world countries? Gee I'm sure red states are excited to be the 3rd world of the US, and that's something that those in charge of those states should really be proud of.
That has very little to do with them being red or blue though. For example I live in what is currently probably the reddest of red states. We weren't getting the benefits alleged of being a blue state when we were a safe blue state for most of our history prior to 2000. I suspect the causation there is the other way around, if at all.
 

BrawlMan

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Regardless of who wins, there's going to be a significant faction claiming the election was stolen/hacked/cheated or some variation thereof.
Yes, the Republicans and Biatch Trump are going to cry the loudest about it if they lose, exactly like last time.
 

Phoenixmgs

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I'm curious as to how they calculate and justify these rankings.

California is the 5th largest economy in the world. California's economy literally dwarfs that of actual countries. It has a larger economy than India, the UK, every country in the EU except Germany. It represents 14% of the total economy of the US. It has the highest economic output of any state in the US. Somehow your rankings are putting it 42nd in terms of "fiscal stability?" Yeah I gotta call bullshit.

High GDP doesn't necessarily mean you have fiscal stability. Again, look at Illinois that can't even pay lottery winners...

From the California government itself:
State Faces $24 Billion Budget Problem and Ongoing Deficits. Under our outlook, the Legislature would face a budget problem of $24 billion in 2023‑24. (A budget problem—also called a deficit—occurs when resources for the upcoming fiscal year are insufficient to cover the costs of currently authorized services.) The budget problem is mainly attributable to lower revenue estimates, which are lower than budget act projections from 2021‑22 through 2023‑24 by $41 billion. Revenue losses are offset by lower spending in certain areas. Over the subsequent years of the forecast, annual deficits would decline from $17 billion to $8 billion.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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High GDP doesn't necessarily mean you have fiscal stability. Again, look at Illinois that can't even pay lottery winners...

From the California government itself:
State Faces $24 Billion Budget Problem and Ongoing Deficits. Under our outlook, the Legislature would face a budget problem of $24 billion in 2023‑24. (A budget problem—also called a deficit—occurs when resources for the upcoming fiscal year are insufficient to cover the costs of currently authorized services.) The budget problem is mainly attributable to lower revenue estimates, which are lower than budget act projections from 2021‑22 through 2023‑24 by $41 billion. Revenue losses are offset by lower spending in certain areas. Over the subsequent years of the forecast, annual deficits would decline from $17 billion to $8 billion.
So the state is currently running at a budget deficit...like most of the countries in the world, including the US.


That means very little.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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So the state is currently running at a budget deficit...like most of the countries in the world, including the US.


That means very little.
And Indiana, my new state, has cash reserves.
 

Avnger

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And Indiana, my new state, has cash reserves.
Indiana is also a state that, outside a handful of liberal universities, "Southeastern Chicago", and Democratic-run Indianapolis, people generally don't prefer to live in.

 
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Agema

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I'm curious as to how they calculate and justify these rankings.
"Fiscal stability" is in many respects not a particularly interesting statistic. "Fiscal stability" can be radically changed with one, single budget. Running a debt? Increase taxes / decrease services, balance the budget, go up the rankings plenty. Whereas if a state is doing terribly in all sorts of other indicators - GDP/capita, education, etc. - that's going to take years if not decades to fix.

Secondly, "fiscal stability" is often going to be the reverse of many other characteristics measured, because of the simple fact that agreeing to pay for things creates financial liabilities. Thus red states may often do better here because they don't pay for all sorts of public services that make life immeasurably better for their citizens.
 
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Agema

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Sure, sure, I could maybe see the appeal in that notion, except that also doesn't describe the events that happened. Like, at all.
That's because you don't have the ideology that simply writes the appropriate narrative in: Rittenhouse takes gun and with brave patriots attempts to defend honest, working people's property from looters, is attacked by unAmerican Antifa* criminal hooligans, shoots a few. = hero.

Yes, there's a great deal else went on in reality. But that can be conveniently ignored by anyone willing.

* It seems to me in the mind of the right, everyone on the left whose political acts go beyond voting is Antifa
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Indiana is also a state that, outside a handful of liberal universities, "Southeastern Chicago", and Democratic-run Indianapolis, people generally don't prefer to live in.

The water is as good as it gets in my area, I got dat Lake Michigan water. Indiana is loads better than Illinois, which I came from. I almost lost my job because of the incompetent Illinois DMV. One friend bought a townhouse 2-3 years ago and sold it in a month because of his neighbor and never changed his car registration back to Illinois because of how awful it is, he currently still uses a friend's address for his mail and everything even though he lives in Illinois.

I know what deficits are. You should strive for having extra money (regardless of just an individual or state) because so when there's a rainy day, you can pay for it. What if it's a bad economy and much more people are on unemployment or you're doing some massive project to transition to something else (like say a different source of energy)? If your "good" years are also in deficit, then you're doing something wrong. Being in a deficit in a year isn't bad on it's own as it's fine to overspend when you need to, but it's bad when you do it all the time.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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I know what deficits are. You should strive for having extra money (regardless of just an individual or state) because so when there's a rainy day, you can pay for it. What if it's a bad economy and much more people are on unemployment or you're doing some massive project to transition to something else (like say a different source of energy)? If your "good" years are also in deficit, then you're doing something wrong. Being in a deficit in a year isn't bad on it's own as it's fine to overspend when you need to, but it's bad when you do it all the time.
Not spending your money on things you need just because you want to "save it for a rainy day" is also bad.

If California has a "rainy day" bad enough that it can't borrow money to get out of it then the world economy is pretty much fucked.