US 2024 Presidential Election
- Thread starter gorfias
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I'm not disagreeing that a country can make laws and said corporations have to abide by them. I'm saying if the country's laws involve censorship, then that's bad. Musk isn't a fascist. The more you guys use words wrongly, the less people care about what ya'll say. The democrats narrative last election that it was an election to save democracy was the least effective of their messages because people don't care about pointless exaggerations that aren't true.
Ah
Its a far right freak who does Hitler salutes on TV. If there's any case where the description is totally valid its here. Besides the American electorate being supremely easily duped doesn't really change anything about Trump. It says more about them.
In Germany an insult can be a misdemeanor (there are some more restrictions like it needing to be public).
Both fascist and nazi are valid insults as those are regarded as pretty bad things to say about someone. In the beginning, far right liked to get people sued for calling them fascists
However, a truthful statement can't be an insult ... so German courts are regularly taks with finding out if a reasonable person would consider someone a fascist or not. And in a surprising number of cases the court decides "Yes, this person can be called a fascist, considering their actions and statements". It is a bit harder for the more specific nazi term.
But overall, people are pretty careful about throwing the fascist/nazi label around - but if they do, they really mean it.
Both fascist and nazi are valid insults as those are regarded as pretty bad things to say about someone. In the beginning, far right liked to get people sued for calling them fascists
However, a truthful statement can't be an insult ... so German courts are regularly taks with finding out if a reasonable person would consider someone a fascist or not. And in a surprising number of cases the court decides "Yes, this person can be called a fascist, considering their actions and statements". It is a bit harder for the more specific nazi term.
But overall, people are pretty careful about throwing the fascist/nazi label around - but if they do, they really mean it.
Musk is not a fascist... If the American electorate votes for either democrats or republicans, they are duped.
We both know what you would say if Americans paraded images insulting your leadership down our city streets. Even more, we know what you have to say about people making public displays insulting Democrats.
You literally have tariffs, dummy.
Oh, you backwards headed fellow, you've inverted the discussion. Trump's administration voiced concerns about your nations, and you are spazzing out. I won't say you're confused, as that might accidentally imply you have reasonable self-doubt about your perspective. And you don't, you feel absolute assurance that someone criticizing you is pure evil.
I'm not. I'm not pretending Europe acting in its self-interest is unreasonable. You are the one acting that way. You are, in your words, disgusted by America acting in American self-interest.
You clearly don't know what I'd say, because i wouldn't give a shit.
Provided it wasn't overtly threatening violence or just racist or something. But displaying Starmer or Macron as a giant baby? Have at it.
Yes, i'm aware. And they're not nearly as coercive or indiscriminate as those imposed by the current US administration.
Oh no, you've got it wrong. I don't doubt you have no problem with Macron being mocked... but you would be beside yourself if Macron was being mocked by Republicans. I don't know there is anyone you would stand by and let Republicans mock.
This just shows how little you actually comprehend of your political opponents on here.
I might criticise their criticism. But that's not what you're doing with regards to Trump, is it? You're objecting to the very fact foreigners would denigrate the US President. On that count, your aversion to free expression is entirely your own. Republican voters can mock our leaders all they like.
Problem is that its not in America's self interest to go burn bridges with its biggest allies. Its only in the interest of the leeching executive class Trump is championing.
Besides no harm blaming a country acting “in its best interest” when that interest is grotesque. Russia’s an excellent case study where establishing its horror empire might be in their interest but no one else’s.
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The transatlantic alliance is failing because its members don't really share common interests anymore.
The Soviet Union is gone and Russia is local power that does not really threaten the US's influence all over the globe while it is still threatening Europe. In the past both Europe and the US wanted to make world trade rule based, reliable and safe and commonly pushed the WTO, but now the US think it is better off when it can pressure weak countries in bilateral deals. The EURO exists and Europe doesn't share much interest in the dominance of the dollar anymore. Exporting democracy and common values has failed so often that both Europe and the US lost interest, also people have doubts on how common those values actually are.
It is obvious that the alliance would eventually be dissolved. All those transatlanticists are living in the distant past.The issue is more the way it is done : The US trying to treat European countries as vassals and at the same time reneging on the main benefits it brought to the table.
I don't mind criticism. I actually agree with some elements of it over the years, such as that European countries were not spending enough on defence. It's right that Europe is weak (although I disagree with numerous stated reasons why). What annoys me is not the criticism, it's the self-serving hypocrisy and lies thrown in there.
Trump and Republicans have been inviting over and feting the likes of Viktor fucking Orban for years: that tells us what they really want. They're backing individuals, parties and states that have overtly led assaults on their nations' democratic institutions - who have crushed free media, destroyed the independence of the judiciary, filled state institutions with party cronies. The US right are deep into the process of doing this themselves. And then they want to lecture Europeans on "democracy" and "free speech". They give this godawful waffle about building a stronger Europe, whilst they're busy promoting anti-EU, further right parties which are only likely to cause internal division, conflict and fragmentation within Europe.
I appreciate that you don't really care about any of these things. It's not a problem to you if Trump and the Republicans laud and support illiberal authoritarians abroad, increasingly enact a load of these same illiberal authoritarian ideas in the USA, and corruptly use the state to coerce media and business into support, because you don't think any of this is intrinsically wrong. As long as it's benefitting Trump and the Republicans, it's fine.
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Yes, I agree. It has been obvious for a long time that the USA and Europe were gradually diverging, and that's okay. But we surely understand the problem with telling Europe that it needs to stand on its own two feet whilst also demanding it buys its arms off the USA, slavishly follows US trade and policy diktats, and pays the USA tribute for the privilege of doing business with it.
The other point being that the USA and Europe should still be broadly aligned on many issues - some of the issues are more what might be termed "narcissism of small differences". This is therefore an unnecessary and self-defeating schism at this point in time.
Typeface of ‘wasteful’ diversity: Trump’s state department orders return to Times New Roman
Memo from Marco Rubio reportedly said cutting Calibri from official communication would ‘abolish yet another wasteful DEIA program’
www.theguardian.com
I think in general you might be missing the point. Trump having critisism itself isn't really the problem. It is of course hypocritical that the guy trying to emulate the barbaric Russian systeem accuses other countries of losing their civilisation, but the real problem is Trump(and that piece of filth Vance) using this critisism as a pretext to all but declare us enemies, and that his actions match his words.
Europe has plenty of critisism of the US, but we don't use this as a pretext to undermine the US, cripple their position in the world or conspire with its enemies. Why would we? We're allies. Or at least were before Trump randomly decided we weren't.
Did I? My point is that we take all that without issue, but the inverse sparks fears for the end of civilization as we know it.
Honestly, I think you just want to be his enemy, you're looking to read that into his statements, most of which would explicitly state Europe as critical allies.
Was it, though? You're the only one here who brought it up. You can hardly say you were pointing out an inconsistent standard when nobody else expressed it.
I think that on some level you just thing deference is due.
So if someone tells you that you are their friend whilst they fuck your wife, steal your money and shit in your living room, you believe them?
Right-o.
Not really. With the Russian barbarians at the gate its not like we can afford another enemy. That Americans are dumb enough to inflict Trump on them is their problem. My issue is that they insist on also making it our problem. Trump being a wretch wouldn't have made us enemies if he kept that confined to the domestic front instead of trying to do us harm