US lawmakers introduce bill to ban TikTok

[tstorm823]

On the contrary, breathlessly catastrophizing about the moral implications of a statement in a hypothetical situation that is beyond the originally intended scope demonstrates a mastery of social media commentary. Not so much the snappy part in this case; not brief enough. In any case, I have no doubt tstorm823 can wield a pitchfork with the best of them.

Whether I can is beautifully irrelevant. "No politics on Facebook" is my rule #1 of the internet, where Facebook is representative of any social media people tie their reputations to.

Dude, the quotation you are citing is - as far as I'm aware - a snappy social media rejoinder.

To sit there and muse about how the author did not supply a welter of caveats and careful phraseology based on and accurately reflecting an in-depth philosophical understanding of economic systems merely tells everyone you have not stopped to consider what people are doing with snappy social media comments.

You seem not to understand memes. The idea of a meme is reusing already tried and tested content with maybe minor contextual changes. The original source is typically not flippant or snappy. Someone at some point put serious thought into that sentence before it could become a repeatable cliche.

 

[Silvanus]

You seem not to understand memes.

He said, immediately after confidently claiming that a meme is intended to be taken 100% literally.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Lmao

I mean, they're adopting those measures against the advice of the vast majority of the medical community, Mr Science

They are adopting measures against who YOU think is the majority of the medical community. Just like how most peer countries covid recommendations are quite a bit different than what the US is. Since when is the rest of the world a minority?

I think Twitter and Facebook are horrible. Why is our opinions on companies relevant?

Note that this is a buch of social media groups trying to gain more market power. They will say anything to take the competition our. You are being driven to dislike companies for other people's economic and political gains

TikTok is worse than Twitter and Facebook regardless of how much or little market share Twitter and Facebook have.

Capitalism is a great economic concept. It is also utopian. It is exactly like Communism in the fact that it has never been tried and never will be tried

Like Nationalism, Communism, any religion or political -ism, Capitalism does not HAVE to have bad intentions. We, as a society, do that. Eg. Nationalism did not have to become anti-immigrant. Society warped Nationalism to be anti-immigrant. Capitlism could have made everyone wealthy but instead we had to have the government come in to stop greed. Christianity (and many religions) have a phrase that goes something like, 'Do onto others as you would like them to do onto you.' Christian (and many religions) then ban homosexuals, etc and THEN wonder why they get canceled... when the cancelling is just the others doing back to Christian how they were first treated by them

None of this should have bad intentions. We place then there.

Capitalism is the most prevalent economic system used in the world by a long shot. Can you do 100% unadulterated capitalism? Of course not. That doesn't make it a bad system because then everything is a bad system with that requirement. You need regulations with capitalism and any system because you need to put in place mechanisms that reign in the natural and bad human tendencies. It's become "cool" to dump on capitalism and be a socialist (or whatever) and those people have like no concept of economics and think a system is the solution when socialism needs the same type of regulations and safeguards put in place. Videos on how bad capitalism is and how great socialism is are quite hilarious most of the time like that guy that does the Second Thought channel blamed capitalism for the baby formula shortage when it was government interventions that caused basically the entire problem and also caused the problem to persist.

 

[Ag3ma]

You need regulations with capitalism and any system

Sure, fine.

Videos on how bad capitalism is and how great socialism is are quite hilarious most of the time like that guy that does the Second Thought channel blamed capitalism for the baby formula shortage when it was government interventions that caused basically the entire problem and also caused the problem to persist.

Er, so you're blaming the baby formula shortage on the government regulating the production of baby formula?

Maybe you need to think this through a little.

 

[Gatuno]

If they ban tik tok, the tik tok userbase will just migrate to youtube and flood the site with their braindead videos

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Sure, fine.



Er, so you're blaming the baby formula shortage on the government regulating the production of baby formula?

Maybe you need to think this through a little.

You can regulate something both well and poor. The thing with the baby formula shortage is that IIRC all of the baby formula sold via WIC was a contract won by a single company and like half the country's baby formula is bought through WIC. Thus, when there's a safety issue with the one company and all the baby formula can't be sold, you end up with one hell of a shortage. Also, baby formula wasn't allowed to be brought in outside the US because it was deemed "not safe" even though other countries have as good and usually better standards than the US does. Even something like the formula not having the label in english but english info being provided online wasn't good enough. It's stupid regulations like that that persisted the shortage.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

They are adopting measures against who YOU think is the majority of the medical community. Just like how most peer countries covid recommendations are quite a bit different than what the US is. Since when is the rest of the world a minority?

...so, to recap: China is adopting measures *you support*, given that you like the measures in those peer countries, and their covid numbers are *skyrocketing* and this is somehow...people like me's fault?

You're so wound up I dunno if you know what you're arguing

 

[Silvanus]

You can regulate something both well and poor. The thing with the baby formula shortage is that IIRC all of the baby formula sold via WIC was a contract won by a single company and like half the country's baby formula is bought through WIC. Thus, when there's a safety issue with the one company and all the baby formula can't be sold, you end up with one hell of a shortage. Also, baby formula wasn't allowed to be brought in outside the US because it was deemed "not safe" even though other countries have as good and usually better standards than the US does. Even something like the formula not having the label in english but english info being provided online wasn't good enough. It's stupid regulations like that that persisted the shortage.

So.... issues that would have existed without any regulation. Meaning that your fundamental issue is that the regulation was not sufficiently stringent.

Please, folks: there are issues with socialism, though I am myself a socialist and believe they're vastly outweighed. This isn't one of them but it's the most commonly brought up.

 

[Trunkage]

You can regulate something both well and poor. The thing with the baby formula shortage is that IIRC all of the baby formula sold via WIC was a contract won by a single company and like half the country's baby formula is bought through WIC. Thus, when there's a safety issue with the one company and all the baby formula can't be sold, you end up with one hell of a shortage. Also, baby formula wasn't allowed to be brought in outside the US because it was deemed "not safe" even though other countries have as good and usually better standards than the US does. Even something like the formula not having the label in english but english info being provided online wasn't good enough. It's stupid regulations like that that persisted the shortage.

Baby formula shortages were not a just US thing. It was global. Even if you tried to deregulate the US standards, it would have cured no problems.

 

[Ag3ma]

You can regulate something both well and poor.

?? Halting production at unsafe food facilities creating contaminated produce is regulating well, I would suggest.

There are a lot of problems with your claim. Some of it is inaccuracy, some is not appropriately assessing a multifactorial cause. Fundamentally, the single biggest problem was that the production standards at a huge factory were substandard. After that, there are other issues that combined to exacerbate the problem, some of which are connected to government policy. However, it doesn't necessarily mean those policies were bad in a wider sense.

For instance:
1) WIC does indirectly cause sort of quasi-monopolies, but this isn't due to bad government regulation. WIC, like any organisation, is expected to deliver services as efficiently as possible, so it signs state contracts depending on who offers the best deal in that state. This is just basic competitive tender as can be found anywhere in the market. (There are then other factors that can exacerbate localised market dominance.)
2) You can certainly argue that import restrictions compounded the problem, but that does not necessarily mean they were bad rules, because those rules also need to be considered in the wider context of all the other things those trade rules are designed to achieve.
3) It is breathtaking to read anyone think that it is bad regulation to ensure key information on food packaging is readable to customers.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

...so, to recap: China is adopting measures *you support*, given that you like the measures in those peer countries, and their covid numbers are *skyrocketing* and this is somehow...people like me's fault?

You're so wound up I dunno if you know what you're arguing

Huh? Since when is China doing the stuff I said to do?

You guys: If we do A,B,C, covid won't be much of a problem, it's stupid people not doing those things that are to blame.
Me: A,B,C has no record of actually working, and China is doing those very things and covid cases are skyrocketing, so how is doing A,B,C ever gonna stop covid?

Also, you think the general narrative in the US about certain medical things is the majority consensus yet the rest of the world (which I guess is a minority then...) doesn't do those things.

So.... issues that would have existed without any regulation. Meaning that your fundamental issue is that the regulation was not sufficiently stringent.

Please, folks: there are issues with socialism, though I am myself a socialist and believe they're vastly outweighed. This isn't one of them but it's the most commonly brought up.

What are you even going on about? Capitalism was not the reason there was a baby formula shortage. In fact, all other countries had plenty of baby formula and they are capitalist and they had so much baby formula that they could send it to the US to help but the government regulations seized the baby formula that could have feed babies and the government was so delighted by it that they acted liked seizing the baby formula was some great deed like a drug bust and showed off and everything.

Baby formula shortages were not a just US thing. It was global. Even if you tried to deregulate the US standards, it would have cured no problems.

Where else was there a baby formula shortage? Every search result for "europe + baby formula shortage" is just articles about how europe is shipping the US baby formula.

Also...
Finally, the third factor: America’s regulatory and trade policy. And while that might not sound as interesting to most people as bacteria and viruses, it might be the most important part of the story.

FDA regulation of formula is so stringent that most of the stuff that comes out of Europe is illegal to buy here due to technicalities like labeling requirements. Nevertheless, one study found that many European formulas meet the FDA nutritional guidelines—and, in some ways, might even be better than American formula, because the European Union bans certain sugars, such as corn syrup, and requires formulas to have a higher share of lactose.

Some parents who don’t care about the FDA’s imprimatur try to circumvent regulations by ordering formula from Europe through third-party vendors. But U.S. customs agents have been known to seize shipments at the border.

What’s Behind America’s Shocking Baby-Formula Shortage?

Bacteria, a virus, a trade policy—and a lesson

www.theatlantic.com

The US seizing perfectly fine food for babies that parents bought to feed their kids is... good?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

?? Halting production at unsafe food facilities creating contaminated produce is regulating well, I would suggest.

There are a lot of problems with your claim. Some of it is inaccuracy, some is not appropriately assessing a multifactorial cause. Fundamentally, the single biggest problem was that the production standards at a huge factory were substandard. After that, there are other issues that combined to exacerbate the problem, some of which are connected to government policy. However, it doesn't necessarily mean those policies were bad in a wider sense.

For instance:
1) WIC does indirectly cause sort of quasi-monopolies, but this isn't due to bad government regulation. WIC, like any organisation, is expected to deliver services as efficiently as possible, so it signs state contracts depending on who offers the best deal in that state. This is just basic competitive tender as can be found anywhere in the market. (There are then other factors that can exacerbate localised market dominance.)
2) You can certainly argue that import restrictions compounded the problem, but that does not necessarily mean they were bad rules, because those rules also need to be considered in the wider context of all the other things those trade rules are designed to achieve.
3) It is breathtaking to read anyone think that it is bad regulation to ensure key information on food packaging is readable to customers.

The Atlantic article in the post above says US regulation was the most important part.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Huh? Since when is China doing the stuff I said to do?

Since their cases started to skyrocket. Are they doing what your favorite "peer countries" are doing or not?

You guys: If we do A,B,C, covid won't be much of a problem, it's stupid people not doing those things that are to blame.
Me: A,B,C has no record of actually working, and China is doing those very things and covid cases are skyrocketing, so how is doing A,B,C ever gonna stop covid?

I mean, you're completely discounting D, E, and F while hyperfixating on A and pretending we wanted China to abandon enforcing B and C.

Also, you think the general narrative in the US about certain medical things is the majority consensus yet the rest of the world (which I guess is a minority then...) doesn't do those things.

Neat. What things. How do they relate to covid. Do you support them. Is China doing them.

Also...
Finally, the third factor: America’s regulatory and trade policy. And while that might not sound as interesting to most people as bacteria and viruses, it might be the most important part of the story.

FDA regulation of formula is so stringent that most of the stuff that comes out of Europe is illegal to buy here due to technicalities like labeling requirements. Nevertheless, one study found that many European formulas meet the FDA nutritional guidelines—and, in some ways, might even be better than American formula, because the European Union bans certain sugars, such as corn syrup, and requires formulas to have a higher share of lactose.

Some parents who don’t care about the FDA’s imprimatur try to circumvent regulations by ordering formula from Europe through third-party vendors. But U.S. customs agents have been known to seize shipments at the border.

What’s Behind America’s Shocking Baby-Formula Shortage?

Bacteria, a virus, a trade policy—and a lesson

www.theatlantic.com

The US seizing perfectly fine food for babies that parents bought to feed their kids is... good?

The US seizing contraband that doesn't meet labeling requirements for sale in the United States is a normal function of trade. The fact that we had to have studies done to show which is more nutritious instead of being able to read the fucking label is kinda the issue. You want the government to pick up the tab for a sick or dead infant because the allergy notification was in German?

 

[Ag3ma]

The Atlantic article in the post above says US regulation was the most important part.

Firstly, you've missed out a key caveat word: "might be the most important part". Secondly, the article states "US regulatory and trade policy", so in fact two issues, not just the one of regulation that you've claimed. Thirdly, to read further, it rapidly becomes clear what the author really means is the trade policy, not regulation. So you've misrepresented the article.

And then further problems: the reason it settles on trade policy is because the article is actually about trade policy, not baby formula. Seriously, trade policy is I reckon about a third or more of the article's text. Baby formula is just a vehicle to transport the "lesson" that the headline wants us to learn: specifically, that trade protectionism is bad. So what this is, is an opinion piece by a dilettante journalist of no particular expertise on baby formula shortages who is grinding an axe about trade policy. As a result, even if you had correctly interpreted the article, it would be of very little weight anyway.

 

[Ag3ma]

The US seizing contraband that doesn't meet labeling requirements for sale in the United States is a normal function of trade. The fact that we had to have studies done to show which is more nutritious instead of being able to read the fucking label is kinda the issue. You want the government to pick up the tab for a sick or dead infant because the allergy notification was in German?

Quite.

The trick is probably to drop the import tariffs: if it's economically worthwhile for German firms to export baby formula to the USA, they'll make appropriate labels for the US market and start shipping it over.

But then this gets into the whole mega-trade deal stuff that was big news years ago, and I very much recall a great deal of hostility in the USA, EU and Pacific nations to these super low-tariff trade associations. In fact, it was precisely this sort of hostility in the USA that inspired Donald Trump to renogitate NAFTA, start a trade war with China (that's still going, albeit more a cold war now) and generally slap big, fat trade tariffs on various other nations that he could.

 

[Trunkage]

Quite.

The trick is probably to drop the import tariffs: if it's economically worthwhile for German firms to export baby formula to the USA, they'll make appropriate labels for the US market and start shipping it over.

But then this gets into the whole mega-trade deal stuff that was big news years ago, and I very much recall a great deal of hostility in the USA, EU and Pacific nations to these super low-tariff trade associations. In fact, it was precisely this sort of hostility in the USA that inspired Donald Trump to renogitate NAFTA, start a trade war with China (that's still going, albeit more a cold war now) and generally slap big, fat trade tariffs on various other nations that he could.

But we HAVE to do a trade war because some numbers say the US doesn't do enough exports

The consequences will be outweighed by the clear benefit

Anyway, the trade war targeting China was clearly as thought through as Brexit. I.e. some idiot thought that there was never going to be any retaliation. It seem to never occur to Brexiteers that the EU might be interested in protecting IT'S borders, just as the UK was wailing about theirs. It seem to never occur to Trump that China could retaliate back and (partially) win

 

[Cheetodust]

...so, to recap: China is adopting measures *you support*, given that you like the measures in those peer countries, and their covid numbers are *skyrocketing* and this is somehow...people like me's fault?

You're so wound up I dunno if you know what you're arguing

He literally never does.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Since their cases started to skyrocket. Are they doing what your favorite "peer countries" are doing or not?
I mean, you're completely discounting D, E, and F while hyperfixating on A and pretending we wanted China to abandon enforcing B and C.
Neat. What things. How do they relate to covid. Do you support them. Is China doing them.


The US seizing contraband that doesn't meet labeling requirements for sale in the United States is a normal function of trade. The fact that we had to have studies done to show which is more nutritious instead of being able to read the fucking label is kinda the issue. You want the government to pick up the tab for a sick or dead infant because the allergy notification was in German?

I don't really keep tabs on China (and it's kinda hard to do so), though I'm sure they are still masking, testing, and tracing. Remember when everyone yelled at Sweden for "killing people" because they didn't lockdown and basically shunned doing such; however, they ended up with the lowest rate of excess deaths in Europe during the pandemic.

What else are you guys for that's not masking, testing, tracing? Besides vaccination obviously.

Don't think China is doing what other countries are doing since I don't recall most countries locking people in their homes. Almost no one is trying for a zero covid strategy that China tried for like 3 years. Rest of the world kept kids and school and usually didn't mask kids.

The nutrition info is available online... Most other countries enforce higher standards on baby formula.

Firstly, you've missed out a key caveat word: "might be the most important part". Secondly, the article states "US regulatory and trade policy", so in fact two issues, not just the one of regulation that you've claimed. Thirdly, to read further, it rapidly becomes clear what the author really means is the trade policy, not regulation. So you've misrepresented the article.

And then further problems: the reason it settles on trade policy is because the article is actually about trade policy, not baby formula. Seriously, trade policy is I reckon about a third or more of the article's text. Baby formula is just a vehicle to transport the "lesson" that the headline wants us to learn: specifically, that trade protectionism is bad. So what this is, is an opinion piece by a dilettante journalist of no particular expertise on baby formula shortages who is grinding an axe about trade policy. As a result, even if you had correctly interpreted the article, it would be of very little weight anyway.

The article also doesn't mention why most of the roadblocks are even in place. WIC issues and the extreme over-regulation of baby formula (which bleeds heavily into trade policy, they are sorta one in the same) caused the baby formula shortage in the US. The shortage did not at all happen due to the system of capitalism, which is my main point. Are you gonna say the shortage was caused by an inherit flaw of capitalism?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I don't really keep tabs on China (and it's kinda hard to do so), though I'm sure they are still masking, testing, and tracing. Remember when everyone yelled at Sweden for "killing people" because they didn't lockdown and basically shunned doing such; however, they ended up with the lowest rate of excess deaths in Europe during the pandemic.

Well then good news, China is doing exactly what YOU SPECIFICALLY want them to do

What else are you guys for that's not masking, testing, tracing? Besides vaccination obviously.

Quarantines, restricted travel, bans on congregating in numbers, etc. All the things you hated and advocated getting rid of and are now blaming the increased cases on us for some reason.

Don't think China is doing what other countries are doing since I don't recall most countries locking people in their homes. Almost no one is trying for a zero covid strategy that China tried for like 3 years. Rest of the world kept kids and school and usually didn't mask kids.

And then they stopped doing that and cases are skyrocketing and you're blaming that on us, somehow.

The nutrition info is available online... Most other countries enforce higher standards on baby formula.

Neat, we'll just get everybody to get their baby formula information from the German language website instead of it being in english on the box. I mean, everybody speaks German, yeah?

 

[Satinavian]

The trick is probably to drop the import tariffs: if it's economically worthwhile for German firms to export baby formula to the USA, they'll make appropriate labels for the US market and start shipping it over.

Well, yes.

But there is another point. The labeling (and similar) requirements are less a problem for importing (as it would be trivial enough to make proper labels), it is a problem for filling an unforeseen shortage in time by reliance on the international market.

The US does not have a shortage because it can't produce enough. It has a shortage because demand and supply fluctuated heavily and trade barriers means they are on their own with it. They can't just import stuff that was meant for other markets.