USA health system... umm... what the hell?!

[scott91575]

If they don't want to do it, then they shouldn't have to. If Americans want to gamble with their health if it means it might save them a bit of money, then that's their choice to make. People like to go on about how the poor are pretty much fucked. Thats very sad and all, but I don't see why the tax payer is obligated to fix it. The entire idea that they are goes against American values.

I would disagree to a point. There should be a level of care available to everyone, and that is not against American ideals. No matter how poor you are, you are given a free education through high school (and subsidized education for college). There is a benefit to society not to have people on the lower end of the financial scale suffer from illnesses, especially children.

As I have stated already, I am not for full scale socialized medicine, but some form of health care for all is a benefit. Capitalism is nice, but even the US has learned there needs to be some checks and balances that work out for the overall benefit.

 

[icaritos]

Perhaps there are ways we can reduce the cost. Maybe pay Doctors less and Teachers more. That would be a smart thing to do. Doctors are paid ridiculous amounts of money and I can assure you most of that money goes to them.

Just don't go into socialized medicine because that is even worse.

Canada, UK, Australia, Denmark, Switzerland. Please clarify how "going into socialized medicine" is much worse than the shitty conditions the US has now.

For starters, the U.S.A. is an incredibly nice place to live

Are you seriously implying that all those first world countries are bad places to live in? This is absurdity and media brainwashing at its finest. I have cousins who lived 2 years in Australia and are doing everything they can to return there, and I myself am currently living in the UK.

If you are going to make an argument, at the very least put some effort into it.

 

[Jegsimmons]

Don't judge an entire system on one event.
Quite frankly, I'm not very happy about our system. But not because I support government health care. I don't. I'm unhappy because of all the restrictions put on insurance companies and hospitals so it cost an arm and a leg To do anything.

What kind of restrictions are on health care companies and hospitals? Are they the same restrictions for both? Would NOT having such restrictions make it possible for them to pay up when they're called upon? And do you really think, that with out these "restrictions", that they'd ACTUALLY do it?

one major restriction i'm talking about is the fact insurance can not be bought across state lines, which has the effect of lowering competition and have one dominant company in a state, which in turn will end up giving a higher priced lower quality service.

allow that competition and not only will the price be lower and the benefits be higher and pre existing conditions won't be as much of a hassle, but they will also compete for employees. and i guarantee you, more people will be able to afford health care. ive asked economist and doctors on this. universal healthcare doesn't need to be government ran health care.

 

[scott91575]

Firemen would have to ask people to provide insurance documents whilst they're house is burning down.

In the US, they do... Look up 'emergency services coverage' and be amazed.

That is only if you are outside of a fire departments jurisdiction. Sadly, some of that occurs since fire departments are financed through local governments. There have been occasions where firemen could not help someone outside of their local area, yet for the most part no, you do not need to provide anything if you are within a local jurisdiction.

That is more of a problem with the separation of local, state, and federal governments.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

I know you said to keep the America-bashing to a minimum, but that's really at the crux of this issue. We are not a democracy. We are a plutocracy. This isn't really up for debate. People with money get things done, and they do for themselves and their interests - not for the good of the nation.

Privatizing health insurance is supposed to keep costs down, yet we have the highest health care costs in the world by an astounding margin. Why is that? To hear the insurance lobbyists tell it, we're not privatizing hard enough; too many restrictions, too much legislation aimed at limiting what providers can do. That's the problem, apparently. It's not that free market systems are subject to the whims of the wealthiest and most powerful among us. It's not that rich people have invariably attempted to "game" every single society they've lived since the dawn of fucking time.

It's the anti-free market legislation. Of course.

Sidebar: there's a reason why the vast majority of scientists are considered "liberal". You really can't employ America's modern conservative philosophies and the scientific method at the same time.

 

[Canid117]

I love it when threads like this pop up. I love watching people attack my country in its entirety for one issue or another so that they can feel edgy. Good times.

Eh, for better or worse entire countries tend to be judged by the actions of their government, and we did elect the people in charge. In the end, I highly doubt that everyone in Nazi Germany wanted to wage war with the rest of the world, but guess what they're remembered for?

Overcharging for a surgery is a little different than trying to conquer Europe and getting 50 million people killed.

 

[icaritos]

Perhaps there are ways we can reduce the cost. Maybe pay Doctors less and Teachers more. That would be a smart thing to do. Doctors are paid ridiculous amounts of money and I can assure you most of that money goes to them.

Just don't go into socialized medicine because that is even worse.

Canada, UK, Australia, Denmark, Switzerland. Please clarify how "going into socialized medicine" is much worse than the shitty conditions the US has now.

For starters, the U.S.A. is an incredibly nice place to live

Are you seriously implying that all those first world countries are bad places to live in? This is absurdity and media brainwashing at its finest. I have cousins who lived 2 years in Australia and are doing everything they can to return there, and I myself am currently living in the UK.

If you are going to make an argument, at the very least put some effort into it.

Actually, I wasn't implying that. I'm just saying that it's nice to live in the U.S.A. so the system we have in place must be doing something right.

That is a weak argument, the US is nowhere near the best place in the world, and regardless there is always room for improvement.

Either way your original point was that socialized medicine is bad, I showed you examples of how that is not so for many first world countries and I'm still waiting for the reason behind your statement.

 

[scott91575]

I know you said to keep the America-bashing to a minimum, but that's really at the crux of this issue. We are not a democracy. We are a plutocracy. This isn't really up for debate. People with money get things done, and they do for themselves and their interests - not for the good of the nation.

Privatizing health insurance is supposed to keep costs down, yet we have the highest health care costs in the world by an astounding margin. Why is that? To hear the insurance lobbyists tell it, we're not privatizing hard enough; too many restrictions, too much legislation aimed at limiting what providers can do. That's the problem, apparently. It's not that free market systems are subject to the whims of the wealthiest and most powerful among us. It's not that rich people have invariably attempted to "game" every single society they've lived since the dawn of fucking time.

It's the anti-free market legislation. Of course.

Sidebar: there's a reason why the vast majority of scientists are considered "liberal". You really can't employ America's modern conservative philosophies and the scientific method at the same time.

You do realize liberal and socialism do not go hand in hand, and neither does conservative with capitalism. In fact, in many countries, just the opposite would be true. A liberal in Australia is no the same as we think of a liberal in the US.

Liberal and conservative have a more social connotation in the US, and has little to do with health care.

 

[Derek Westlund]

Its really stupid, and there is no reason for it. I think we could have a better country if corporations didn't control half of it....

it's a hell of a lot more than half

and the worst campfire stories you have of the "stupid Americans" are almost guaranteed true

best evidence is the 1000 ways to die series

almost every death involves an American in the dying position

 

[CrazyMedic]

Don't judge an entire system on one event.
Quite frankly, I'm not very happy about our system. But not because I support government health care. I don't. I'm unhappy because of all the restrictions put on insurance companies and hospitals so it cost an arm and a leg To do anything.

yeah we should unregulated the insurance industry so they can just drop anyone because they need medical care of any kind and then when that person wants to get a new insurance company they all deny him because he is sick, I Mean screw sick they just shouldn't have gotten sick. The problem is that they have to fix dying people(which are the most expensive people to fix and they never get paid so the insurance companies have to pay though the nose, if we would just stop giving rich old people more SS money than they put in and then take all that into reimbursing hospitals for fixing dying people then they could lower the prices for things.

 

[scott91575]

Its really stupid, and there is no reason for it. I think we could have a better country if corporations didn't control half of it....

it's a hell of a lot more than half

and the worst campfire stories you have of the "stupid Americans" are almost guaranteed true

best evidence is the 1000 ways to die series

almost every death involves an American in the dying position

Since it's an American show (therefore going to be heavy on US stories), heavily embellished and often totally false, you should probably rethink that statement.

 

[Mr. 47]

Why are people equating health care with communism? It's a tax. How is it any more 'communist' then any other American tax? :/

@ Irony's Acolyte - One of the best posts ever.

@ scott91575 - Thanks!

@ Shyguy - I know you were joking, but how much are American game releaes? Canadian games aren't too pricy. The average is CAD $59.99, Some games like Mortal Kombat and F.E.A.R. 3 are CAD $69.99.

 

[vxicepickxv]

(ie: no public healthcare for you if you smoke).

Good luck with that, seeing as how all of the taxes on cigarettes more than pay for themselves in terms of health care coverage.

 

[Jegsimmons]

Don't judge an entire system on one event.
Quite frankly, I'm not very happy about our system. But not because I support government health care. I don't. I'm unhappy because of all the restrictions put on insurance companies and hospitals so it cost an arm and a leg To do anything.

yeah we should unregulated the insurance industry so they can just drop anyone because they need medical care of any kind and then when that person wants to get a new insurance company they all deny him because he is sick, I Mean screw sick they just shouldn't have gotten sick. The problem is that they have to fix dying people(which are the most expensive people to fix and they never get paid so the insurance companies have to pay though the nose, if we would just stop giving rich old people more SS money than they put in and then take all that into reimbursing hospitals for fixing dying people then they could lower the prices for things.

narrow minded and jumping to the wrong conclusion i see....

 

[Gitty101]

It always amazes me how backwards America is in social and political terms, but I guess it makes sense as it is a relatively young country. I think that the decision to go private should be an option, not compulsory. The spectacle of what happened when Obama was trying to introduce the reforms revealed that the country still has the irrational fear of socialism and fails to recognise the bigger picture.

For the record, I'm British and cannot imagine what it mus be like to live in a country without free health care... maybe that's why they're so sue-happy over there.

 

[Will Holmes]

I know you said to keep the America-bashing to a minimum, but that's really at the crux of this issue. We are not a democracy. We are a plutocracy. This isn't really up for debate. People with money get things done, and they do for themselves and their interests - not for the good of the nation.

Privatizing health insurance is supposed to keep costs down, yet we have the highest health care costs in the world by an astounding margin. Why is that? To hear the insurance lobbyists tell it, we're not privatizing hard enough; too many restrictions, too much legislation aimed at limiting what providers can do. That's the problem, apparently. It's not that free market systems are subject to the whims of the wealthiest and most powerful among us. It's not that rich people have invariably attempted to "game" every single society they've lived since the dawn of fucking time.

It's the anti-free market legislation. Of course.

Sidebar: there's a reason why the vast majority of scientists are considered "liberal". You really can't employ America's modern conservative philosophies and the scientific method at the same time.

You do realize liberal and socialism do not go hand in hand, and neither does conservative with capitalism. In fact, in many countries, just the opposite would be true. A liberal in Australia is no the same as we think of a liberal in the US.

Liberal and conservative have a more social connotation in the US, and has little to do with health care.

Here's a crazy idea. Ditch the labels, because nobody seems to be able to use them properly. Seriously. If you stopped using them, progressing this debate would be far easier. At best, they're names that parties can adopt if they want to give a very vague indication of their values, and even that requires context. They are not suitable as points in a debate.

In the UK, we rarely use the terms for that reason. What we value most is which side of the debate has the more reasoned argument. Try it sometime, America.

 

[devotedsniper]

When i hear about this sort of thing i don't think it's right, it also reminds me what a great country i live in (UK) even if i hate it sometimes. I remember back in year 7 of high school i had to have an operation think i was on the waiting list for all of 8 weeks (nothing serious so could live with it) so the complaints about waiting lists are blown out of proportion in my opinion. I also love how it's all free except for when you turn 18 then you have to pay for your perscription (or at least my housemate has had to for her condition for the past year).

Come to think of it alot of our stuff is free, education (including college/sixth form for those under 18), even our universitys are more or less free since the the goverment give us loans which basically have 0% interest and gets taken out of your pay before you even get it so you don't notice it's gone.