Are you one of those people who claim that "Anyone can be anonymous if they want to be"?Vicarious Reality said:
USA - Police State here we come!
- Thread starter Darth_Dude
- Start date
Yeah... still waiting on him to go ahead and end those two wars he said he was going to end as part of his campaign. We're about 2 years overdue on that. Oh, and since then, he's sent more troops, and involved us in two MORE wars that have absolutely nothing to do with the US. My family would greatly appreciate having our family members back from Afghanistan. Aaaaanytime he's ready.kebab4you said:
Oh, and I loved the shoot-down of the jobs bill he touted we needed so badly because it had a compromise in it that would create even more jobs and wealth (pipeline from canada). *sigh*
Im with you for the most part. Carlin was a genius, his humor was easy to understand for everybody of all age groups 12+, his subjects like religion, law, God and common sense are normally on the heavy side of discussions and debate. He made it so that even people who normally dont worry and talk about those things got an easy to understand glance on the subject and his humor kept those under-educated brains from exploding. He offered a fun, first step into a learningprocess over those subjects. It's why i often post this video in topics about this.PhantomEcho said:
He often called Americans stupid because they do not take action when 'Basic human rights' get violated like it is the case now.
As for me laughing about it. I am not American and im not suppossed to get involved in how they make their laws. It is not my place to do something about the rights of people in other countries, they should do that themselves. If that is wrong, then we should get rid of the whole idea of countries in the first place. 'We' dont tell 'you' what to do and the other way around ofcourse, basic respect.
So i laugh about it because you see so much Americans being 'outraged' and 'upset', when stuff like this happens. I see those Americans more and more, which would make it a good thing since that would mean somebody would do something about it eventually...but no...it only gets worse and worse at an increasing rate.
so i laugh because that is all i can do, otherwise it would just be something to cry about.
Ofcourse i'll be cheering and laughing at my TV/PC when the riots/protests and revolution kicks off.
Vausch said:
I do remember the PATRIOT Act, I remember hearing about how America was taking the first steps towards a Police State, and that it was the biggest disgrace to America ever, and next we would have Police squads roaming around and that it proved Republican's were the worst thing in the world ever.chadachada123 said:
So what happened to all that? There's no doubt it's a questionable law, but don't you think there's a chance that most of the doom and gloom scenario's people are spouting off is just hyperbole? Or if you want to jump on a "Liberal-Media Conspiracy" well then everybody stopped talking about it when Obama signed a 4 year renewal on the act. Either way, the PATRIOT Act hasn't exactly lived up to it's hype as the "destroyer of American life"[footnote]@[user]chadachada123[/user], I agree with you about the problems in Congress though, more often than not people blame other Reps besides the one they vote for. However, my point about the Government interrogating you if they felt like it was more toward the CIA, NSA type of groups[/footnote]
Vivi22 said:
See my point up above. It seems like every couple years we have another bill/law that will destroy life as we know it for Americans, and nothing really pans out.boag said:
What I'm saying is that I seriously doubt the US is going to turn into a police state off of this act. Maybe you can argue that it's the first step, that's more plausible than saying "RIP Bill of Rights 1791-2011". So saying people are naive because they aren't immediately protesting the bill is just silly. The bill isn't going to overturn the Geneva Convention, and they can't just grab American Citizens or legal Aliens either.
From the Bill, nothing in the bill can be
It's targeted specifically for Terror Suspects, which is an entirely new topic. If people want to talk about suspects being held indefinitely by the US military without cause, well that's legit. But it isn't legit to say how this bill is the biggest threat to freedom in America
Also, the Bill helps Gay Marriage toward the steps of being 100% legal. After DADT was repealed the House passed measures to try and prevent the Pentagon from recognizing Gay Marriage, which this bill now removes, stating that Military-Chaplains have the right to opt out of ceremonies if if goes against their beliefs. Funny how no one is talking about that part of the bill
"In democracy you get the goverment you deserve. Alternately you deserve the government you got."
- Josef Heller
"When liberty is taken away by force it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default it can never be recovered."
- Dorothy Thompson
"Those who suppress freedom always do so in the name of law and order."
- John V. Lindsay
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves."
- Abraham Lincoln
"When they came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."
- Martin Niemöller
It is a slippery slope, we know this since time immemorial. Why do we keep forgetting this? Are we still, in this day and age, still so easily distracted by "bread and circuses"? Have we not come further than this?
- Josef Heller
"When liberty is taken away by force it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default it can never be recovered."
- Dorothy Thompson
"Those who suppress freedom always do so in the name of law and order."
- John V. Lindsay
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves."
- Abraham Lincoln
"When they came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."
- Martin Niemöller
It is a slippery slope, we know this since time immemorial. Why do we keep forgetting this? Are we still, in this day and age, still so easily distracted by "bread and circuses"? Have we not come further than this?
Well, don't they say that there are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty, the soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box.MistahFixIt said:
That may be entirely true. The trouble is, it does open individuals to being victimized by this law. Whether it ever affects the lives of the majority of American citizens isn't the issue, the issue is whether or not anyone will suffer due to this law. Because if anyone has their freedoms trampled by it and is denied their right to a fair trial, then the law has done it's damage.Lionsfan said:
There is already enough abuse of power going on in the American justice system without giving the people who perpetrate such abuses broader powers to violate people's freedoms and get away with it.
Any law the curtails rights which are supposed to protect people from government abuse should be fought, regardless of how many people it ends up affecting in reality. There needs to be a very strong reason for curtailing freedoms, and I find it difficult to believe there is any justification for removing the right to a fair trial for anyone being held in custody for any crime.
Now there's something everyone can agree with.Vivi22 said:
Maybe I'm just feeling extra jaded lately, but it always pisses me off when people go all 2012 on every single controversial bill that comes around, although I guess that's just a product of our culture nowadays
Too true. The internet is the land of hyperbole so it can be hard to keep things in perspective sometimes. Of course, if anything, that means we have to be twice as careful to not let the bad stuff slip by unnoticed. I'm certainly guilty of sometimes giving headlines a quick eye roll before making myself actually read and consider the issue being raised.Lionsfan said:
Not surprised, but still disappointed. Decades ago this government was bought and pocketed by big business, extremist christians, and the mob while the people it was supposed to represent and protect were thrown overboard.
Apathy is pumped directly into the populace 24/7 in the form of consumerism and banal media, and anyone in control is merely interested in maintaining their power if not accumulating more. We're basically shell-shocked and compliant from fear and unwilling to admit it, preferring to build up a veneer of "normalcy". Any dissenting voices are drowned out and culled by not only the authorities, but by the subconscious of our society and the fear of being outed as "an enemy of the state". They are singled out, and that is the most effective form of control. Keep reminding them that a single person can do nothing.
I admire Lolsec, Anonymous, and the Occupy Movement for their energy, strength of character, and willingness to refuse to stay in line. I don't however have any hope that these people will bring about any real discernible change. I will grow old and frail and die knowing that some day there will be a disaster brought about to this nation by our own collective hand that will finally bring about a new era for this land, but I will never fool myself into thinking that I have a nation in which I can believe.
Apathy is pumped directly into the populace 24/7 in the form of consumerism and banal media, and anyone in control is merely interested in maintaining their power if not accumulating more. We're basically shell-shocked and compliant from fear and unwilling to admit it, preferring to build up a veneer of "normalcy". Any dissenting voices are drowned out and culled by not only the authorities, but by the subconscious of our society and the fear of being outed as "an enemy of the state". They are singled out, and that is the most effective form of control. Keep reminding them that a single person can do nothing.
I admire Lolsec, Anonymous, and the Occupy Movement for their energy, strength of character, and willingness to refuse to stay in line. I don't however have any hope that these people will bring about any real discernible change. I will grow old and frail and die knowing that some day there will be a disaster brought about to this nation by our own collective hand that will finally bring about a new era for this land, but I will never fool myself into thinking that I have a nation in which I can believe.
Not anymore. The Executive Branch should have roughly a third of the federal government's power; however, Bush W. expanded, without checks from the other two branches of government, the President's power. The President's freedom to have de facto wars, as well as order the assassination of people - including US citizens, creates a situation where the person who gains the Presidency has the greatest public power in the government. (Who actually controls the power through backroom deals is another issue I am completely ill informed.)theultimateend said:President is basically a talking head.Fleischer said:
Unless you vote on the congressional level you will never see change. They are the folks doing most of the bad stuff.
I vote in all elections in my community - those for local, state and national level. I call my Senator's offices and voice my concern over key political issue - such as the Citizens United vs Federal Election Commission ruling. I do what I can to create a better today and tomorrow.
Sjakie said:
Hey... when you put it that way... I actually agree with you wholeheartedly. I mean, there's not a lot you can do looking from the outside in. It's really up to Americans to finally get up off their asses and start making decisions for themselves again. And it's starting. Slowly, but steadily, it's starting.
If it can pick up momentum... there's a chance.
But if it dies out, yeah. You have to laugh at the stupidity of it all just to keep from wondering what the fuck is wrong with the world.
Still. Carlin, he's a damn genius. I miss him more every day.
Something tells me that right about now, we could have used a guy like him. Nothing helps fight complacency and despair like comedy does... and nobody had more insightful comedy about the American way of life than Carlin did.
It's not only that. The second amendment is often mistaken for a carte blanche for illegal activities, such as plotting against the government.PhantomEcho said:
Look, some countries don't even allow firearms. You'd think that if they try to do something illegal like taking down the government they won't be bothered with the moral implications of owning illegal firearms anyway.
We all know that civilians can't stand a chance against professional soldiers. Why would you want to face a soldier in combat instead of just crafting explosives? In my opinion, an explosive is more easily transported than a firearm (which are plain obvious unless everyone is wearing trench coats) and not only causes damage to structures and assets, it also wrecks the moral of any trooper.
It has not come down to a matter of not hearing about it, but hearing it every day as an excuse to insult Europe as a whole while not even being able to witness their own loss of freedom.
Every time I bring up the Patriot Act or a similar bill, I am called "stupid" and I really "don't know anything about freedom, one day my guns will be taken away too".
Well as long as people vote more for Congressional runners than Presidential I think you'd always see a positive returnFleischer said:Not anymore. The Executive Branch should have roughly a third of the federal government's power; however, Bush W. expanded, without checks from the other two branches of government, the President's power. The President's freedom to have de facto wars, as well as order the assassination of people - including US citizens, creates a situation where the person who gains the Presidency has the greatest public power in the government. (Who actually controls the power through backroom deals is another issue I am completely ill informed.)theultimateend said:President is basically a talking head.Fleischer said:
Unless you vote on the congressional level you will never see change. They are the folks doing most of the bad stuff
I vote in all elections in my community - those for local, state and national level. I call my Senator's offices and voice my concern over key political issue - such as the Citizens United vs Federal Election Commission ruling. I do what I can to create a better today and tomorrow.
.It's the Fetish for the Presidency that is failing modern US politics.
But yeah Bush did get lots of cool new powers. Cool if you are the President at least.
Kudos to you on your latter comments, people who vote in all levels are fantastic and should be showered with their preferred sexual partners. (Because in a perfect world those people would be so hot for politically educated folks)
Yeah, you've got me there!Ironic Pirate said:
It is better than a police state.
That's the wonder of it all: they (read, the people that own the stuff that moves the country) can achieve a greater level of control than poor China can, precisely because it isn't "out in the open" for the common folk, like in a strict sense police state. Chinese government does an amateur job of it. They should take lessons from the US of A.
The media isn't evil, no one is "evil". The media is only the best instrument of control available to those who can and want to manipulate the population. Evil and good is for idealists, the world is run by power and power is above (or below) morality. Morality is, to a considerable extent, influenced by those with power.
And please, I am not smug. I'm sarcastic and useless.
Like the drunken beggar that preaches to people in his "free time".
Thank you for this entire post.The Virgo said:
Basically, this stated everything I feel on the subject... outside of just going on a tirade for the next hour about being disgusted with how little my "Fellow Amerikans" care about (even the illusion of) their freedoms being taken away. The "Bill of Temporary Privelages" doesn't matter for squat in the first place, and even if it somehow did, most Amerikans seem to give a rat's ass about what their own government does until it becomes their own physical problem...