Used Game Sales are a "Bigger Problem Than Piracy"

DrunkWithPower

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I stand by my original statement of "They are pissed because they didn't think of it first". But hey, let's not worry about the fact that the game has to be bought as new first then sold as used. No money from piracy is better than having someone else make a few bucks for selling my game.

[small]I swear, when I'm king of this world....[/small]
 

Tetsuhara

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I've been following this thread for a bit now and I have to admit that I can see the points you are trying to make, Hopeless Bastard. And it is a compelling argument.

I earlier posted a link to a page that talks about PC game piracy. I did this to make a point about how for a long time piracy has been used as a straw man to argue for increased prices, to blame lost revenue on, to show the need for DRM and onerous copy protection and anti-piracy measures, but that in essence these all miss the point that the industry isn't driven by those that pirate games, but those that produce them and consumers, and that consumers ultimately decide what will be successful.

Now the PC game market and Console game market are so completely different that it bears a quick comment on for the purpose of this thread.

There simply is no used game market for PC games outside of going on EBay, where transactions are individual to individual, or buying old games through digital download through Steam and Impulse and other services. This is because the evolution cycle for PCs means that in 18 months your next PC will be twice as powerful as your current one, and games made for the current level of PC technology will be obsolete in a handful of years. Only a few PC games stand the test of time and outlive this cycle.

On the other hand, Console games usually follow a 5-10 year cycle, as there's usually some carryover from the last version of a console to the current one. This creates a huge backlog of games that are still just as playable now as they were 3-4 years ago, even longer in some cases.

Also, the video game industry is still a relatively new one and is undergoing some tricky growing pains right now. Large development companies are churning out a lot of content on a rapid cycle, and this means that you end up with games with relatively short play time, or games that are just barely playable and shoved out the door way too soon, or that are just not good at all. But the promotional side of the business keeps hyping each new release as some new Second Coming of Christ or similar nonsense.

As a result, we have a marketplace that's overloaded with content and outside of a few credible sources no real way to tell what's good and what's bad. Add to this the fact that many consumers have been burned badly in the past and are reluctant to buy again. And on top of this, other big chains such as Best Buy have extremely limited return policies, so consumers can't even express their dislike or lack of interest in something through this process.

Enter into this situation Gamestop. They found a clear niche in this market and jumped straight in, turning it into a massively profitable business. Now people have a place to go to dispose of their backlog, or to dump that 'Greatest Shooter EVER!' and get something they want. They can find old games that aren't even being published any more but are still fun to play.

Of course, consumers are still losing out a bit because they're still not getting full value for their trade ins, and developers aren't seeing a dime in revenue from this, but it's still a better situation for consumers then it was before. As for the developers?

The argument is that piracy is less evil then used game sales as far as the industry (i.e. developers) are concerned, and since the industry doesn't see any money from either and they perceive additional lost income due to people not buying new releases and buying 'gently used' new releases, I can see their point.

I think the industry has been so involved in the bogeyman that is piracy that they've only recently come to the realization that used game sales are a much bigger problem, and are overreacting in the same way they did with piracy.

What I have a problem with is that no one seems to be coming up with a viable alternative to Gamestop. Most solutions seem to be based on putting pressure on consumers rather then adding value to a new game purchase as opposed to buying used. And I think that's what upsets a lot of people here. If there was an alternative that supported both consumers and the industry I think people would be more willing to admit to the problems in the current situation.

For example, if EA offered a program where every time you purchased a game new you gained a certain amount of credit for purchasing another new game, such as purchasing Madden '10 new gave you future credit to purchasing Madden '11 new, you might see more loyalty to the brand and the company. I'm hoping to see more ideas here, just tossing one out.

Regardless, this has been a good thread and it brought this lurker out to post finally. :)
 

thiosk

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They were so scared of piracy that they moved full force to console development, and found that lo, used games work just as well as new games. So they can start dicking us over with activation codes for consoles and the like, or they can adopt a Steam-style or impulse-style system for all videogames.
 

OmegaZeroX

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rockingnic said:
If you can't afford a new game, then either:

A: Get a job.
or
B: Don't buy as many games because you don't need to play every game.

If money is a problem then I bet you have much more concerns then playing the next game, like paying rent/mortgage/bills, buying food and other basic needs. Honestly for all those who buy used games and complain that developers aren't doing their job right, go whack yourself in the head with a crowbar because you're probably why that happens.

F.Y.I. This doesn't go towards those games that you can't by new and used is the only option, like N64 games, etc.
Gaming is a form of entertainment. Entertainment shouldn't cost as much as taking care of living expenses. For three games, new, priced at $59.99, an individual could eat for at least a few weeks, if buying food at sale prices. Even people who have a lot of money have it because they did not spend it senselessly. And by senselessly, I'm referring to when they did not have to spend it. What person would pay for something that can be found free and without consequence? What person would pay full price for something that could be found for a third of that price? Used video games are the same as retail groceries being sold for lower prices during sales. It's only logical that money be conserved whenever possible, regardless of income.
 

Moonmover

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The book industry, the film industry, the music industry, the car industry, the housing industry, the clothing industry, the electronics industry, the furniture industry, the toy industry, and, well, every modern industry that is not food has made huge profits for many years before the gaming industry existed, despite the "threat" of the used goods market. It they all got by, why should we be worried that gaming won't?

That is all I have to say on the matter.
 

milkkart

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Xersues said:
The first day I have to pay for an activation fee for a used, offline, game is the day I stop gaming.
if any company ever does that they wont be getting a single penny from me ever again. hell i'll probably pirate every damn thing they produce just to spite them. this is probably perfectly OK given the consumer shafting EULA system of customers not actually owning software. technically its illegal to sell windows second-hand, all it takes is to tack on an arrangement whereby a customer can pay a fee to make that 'illegal' 2nd hand copy licensed.

i hope we dont start to see a slow shift towards this. giving away free DLC with new games is one thing. chopping off half the game, labeling it DLC and charging extra for it is entirely another. as long as release day extras remain extras (armour, characters that arent a big part of the story like the blood dragon armour and shale in DA:O) im fine with it. its like the swag that comes with a special edition.

seriously fuck companies complaining about the second hand market. every other industry in the world (consumable goods excepted for obvious reasons) has to deal with a second hand market. its especially ironic that EA is the one complaining most about this and scrabbling for techniques to wring a few extra pennies out, given that they own half the industry and are swimming in cash thanks to their despicable business practices. its their own tendancy to release the same shit game with vaguely improved graphics and different stats once a year that drives the second hand market anyway.
 

slopeslider

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Mar 19, 2009
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....So was it bad that my brother backed up his wii collection to his HDD and traded the dvd's into Play-N-Trade so he could get a new 360 controller and Ace Combat Zero? I get the sense that his actions just angered two groups of people in one fell swoop.

OT: I say the price setting is to blame. Game cost you 20mil to make with an expected 2mil copies sold in the first year? Price those hotcakes at $59.99

Game cost 800,000 and was just a roster update with somewhat improved graphics? Expected to sell 3 million units? $59.99

The candy market doesn't get away with that crap! Snickers do not cost as much as a Toblerone bar. They are cheaper to produce, they sell for less. Not so in magical gaming land, where everything is DOD GAMNED 59.99
 

Katana314

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milkkart said:
seriously fuck companies complaining about the second hand market. every other industry in the world (consumable goods excepted for obvious reasons) has to deal with a second hand market. its especially ironic that EA is the one complaining most about this and scrabbling for techniques to wring a few extra pennies out, given that they own half the industry and are swimming in cash thanks to their despicable business practices. its their own tendancy to release the same shit game with vaguely improved graphics and different stats once a year that drives the second hand market anyway.
Well, true, I could buy a nice leather jacket from a clothes store, and then sell it to a friend. But the thing is, next time it snows I'll be cold. Things like video games and movies are unfortunately in that category of being consumable (finished the game, watched the movie, etc), but also transferrable AFTER being consumed.

slopeslider; I pretty much perfectly agree with what you're saying though. It would be nice if they could find a price point that resulted in more people buying it, so they still get the same revenue. It starts with the customers though; stop buying those games, and make it clear to them you feel it's overpriced.
 

joshuaayt

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Nov 15, 2009
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People losing some money to cater to the consumer? What is this bull-hockery?!
Business is business. Not everyone plays nice, but that isn't to say that not everyone plays fair. (Not every one plays fair, I realise, but shut up, that's beside this point)
The company gives the game to the retailers. They get the money in recompense for each unit. The retailers offer money to consumers for trade ins. Consumers jump on the chance.
None of this is illegal, so why the hell do we care? Do the makers of those cute "Made in China" plastic kids toys complain whenever someone with a small child holds a garage sale? No. As you can see, THEY are the real heroes here.
 

Sikachu

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"Oliver claimed that games can be traded as many as four times in their lifespan, effectively reducing developer and publisher royalties for some titles to a quarter of what they should be."

Oliver is a moron, and a greedy **** of a moron at that. I wish that the Escapist writers would start to either reject this fallacious reasoning, or at least ask questions like why he think he deserves four times the cost of a game for each unit.

On the other hand, thank Andrew Oliver, I'll continue to pick the lesser of two 'evils'...
 

odanhammer

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I don't buy EA games for a reason now. Hockey games will always be similar no matter what you do.
Blades of Steel for the NES is as good as NHL 10. Although you get updated teams and shat.

Project ten dollar isn't enough to stop me for going the used game route on most games.

I rarely buy a game new , in fact the last time i purchased a game over 20 dollars was back with halo 3 and i saved myself 20 bucks by playing it smart and still getting it 2 days before it came out.. thank you stupid workers at walmart.

Still legally purchase all my games , i have pirated a few in the past , more for a proper demo then anything. Yet in the past year i have spent 100-150 bucks on games and have modern warfare 2 and fallout 3 and bioshock 2 and newer games.

If your wondering how , a lot of video game stores either have a member card that gets you 10-20% off new/used games. Amazon can get you some good prices sometimes. Even get lucky with direct to drive dollars sometimes.
 

Chunko

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Andy Chalk said:
Used Game Sales are a "Bigger Problem Than Piracy"


Game piracy is a serious problem but an even bigger threat to the videogame industry, according to Blitz Games [http://www.blitzgames.com/] co-founder Andrew Oliver, comes from a perfectly legal source: The trading and selling of pre-owned games.

Piracy may be skeevy but morality doesn't pay the bills and the bottom line for game publishers is all about the Benjamins. Revenues are the real issue, not the good conduct of gamers, and in that regard what's really hammering the industry is the second-hand market.

"Arguably the bigger problem on consoles now is the trading in of games," Oliver told Develop [http://www.develop-online.net/news/34791/Pre-owned-a-bigger-problem-than-piracy?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+developmag%2Fifbh+%28Develop%29]. "I understand why players do this, games are expensive and after a few weeks of playing you've either beaten it or got bored of it, so trading it back in to help pay for the next seems sensible when people are short of cash."

Oliver claimed that games can be traded as many as four times in their lifespan, effectively reducing developer and publisher royalties for some titles to a quarter of what they should be. "So while retail may be announcing a reasonable season, the money going back up the chain is a fraction of what it was only a few years ago," he said. "This is a much bigger problem than piracy on the main consoles."

Oliver's comment comes on the heels of EA Sports' announcement of Tiger Woods PGA Tour 11 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/100582-EA-Sports-Unveils-Launch-Day-DLC-Program-Online-Pass], gamers who buy brand-new copies of EA Sports releases will receive single-use codes for bonus content and online gameplay options, while anyone who buys a used copy will have to pay extra for it.


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If I buy a game I have a right to sell it back if I want to.
 

annoyinglizardvoice

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Maybe more folks would buy stuff brand-new if it was worth buying brand-new (free stuff, actually a good game, got "Golden Axe" in the title etc)
Maybe folks wouldn't sell their old games if they were worth keeping (slow but regular trickle of free DLC, much replay value etc)