Valve Announces Steam Machine Prototype Specs

[major_chaos]

"I want to play games on the computer, but I don't want to update my drivers constantly", I knew it was a losing battle.

*twitch* Where do people even come up with these statements? Is there some console fanboy movement spreading rumors that vastly exaggerate how difficult PCs are?

Also, only a very select few Steam Machines cost that much. Many will be down in the low-mid-hundreds, be as small as possible, specialize in quietness, etc. Re-read the OP. It's all about buying what you want if you are stubborn and refuse to build.

Fair enough on the price issue, but that still doesn't tell me what makes a Steam machine better than something from Ibuypower or Alienware.

How about "Windows 8, with its constant transition to touchscreen interfaces, an app store and subscribed software stacked on bloatware, makes me a sad panda"?

Thing is that thus far, nothing has forced me to stop using 7, and considering some people are still using XP I doubt anything will. Also windows 8 wouldn't be the first time Microsoft put out a shitty OS, so I'm not going to start panicking until I see if they pull their heads out of their collective assess with Windows 9.

its programmer-friendly interface,

That is great for programmers. I am not a programmer.

excessive customizability and established modder-base means that we're tapping into a veritable goldmine of free software, free major modifications and the like.

1. examples plz? Windows has both customization and free software, in what way are those features superior on Linux? I really do want to understand what the fuss is about.

 

[lacktheknack]

"I want to play games on the computer, but I don't want to update my drivers constantly", I knew it was a losing battle.

*twitch* Where do people even come up with these statements? Is there some console fanboy movement spreading rumors that vastly exaggerate how difficult PCs are?

Yes.

Also, only a very select few Steam Machines cost that much. Many will be down in the low-mid-hundreds, be as small as possible, specialize in quietness, etc. Re-read the OP. It's all about buying what you want if you are stubborn and refuse to build.

Fair enough on the price issue, but that still doesn't tell me what makes a Steam machine better than something from Ibuypower or Alienware.

Oh, it's not, really.

They even said you can build your own Steam Machine, if you so desire.

It's just more tailored to the console audience mentioned above than even those sites.

You could build your own computer and install SteamOS on it, and you've successfully made a Steam Machine of your very own. It's rebranding, but I don't see an issue with that.

I mean, you do realize that Alienware/ibuypower do have an audience, right? I used to be part of it. Valve putting its oar in isn't anything to be surprised about.

How about "Windows 8, with its constant transition to touchscreen interfaces, an app store and subscribed software stacked on bloatware, makes me a sad panda"?

Thing is that thus far, nothing has forced me to stop using 7, and considering some people are still using XP I doubt anything will. Also windows 8 wouldn't be the first time Microsoft put out a shitty OS, so I'm not going to start panicking until I see if they pull their heads out of their collective assess with Windows 9.

I think "Office 365" was my breaking point.

its programmer-friendly interface,

That is great for programmers. I am not a programmer.

Have you ever downloaded a mod from the Nexus mod database? A bored programmer made that, and you used it.

excessive customizability and established modder-base means that we're tapping into a veritable goldmine of free software, free major modifications and the like.

1. examples plz? Windows has both customization and free software, in what way are those features superior on Linux? I really do want to understand what the fuss is about.

It has more to do with the culture of the place. Linux users tend to get VERY uppity about being told they have to pay something (which makes it a bit baffling that they tend to like Steam, but whatever). Look up Richard Stallman's website for a glimpse into the dark extremes of open-source purism.

But the advantage of such a culture is that you have the various alternatives to Office, Adobe, iTunes, etc, and they will cut you if you try to block features behind a paywall.

Currently, the popular brands will lock features, Microsoft can refuse software entry into its app store, and it's generally moving towards an Apple setup, which annoys me greatly. If a popular brand attempted to block features on Linux, there would be a feature-complete alternative out within days.

Like these:

http://www.tecmint.com/windows-alternatives-for-linux/

It's not so much that they're "superior" as much as they're at much, MUCH less risk of trying to BS you.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

A titan alone is around 1000$ so I'm guessing that version of a steambox is going to be really expensive.

And at a point where you are willing to pay so much for a high end SB like that, I think you are better off if you buy a PC instead for that money for the next generation.

 

[major_chaos]

Yes.

nooooooo. This can not be allowed to continue. wat do?

It's rebranding, but I don't see an issue with that.

Honestly neither do I, its just that the amount of hype some people appear to have for these things seems excessive for them just being a new brand of Prebuilt, so I thought I might be missing something.

I mean, you do realize that Alienware/ibuypower do have an audience, right? I used to be part of it.

I know they do, and I too used to be part of it. Its the number of issues and terrible price to performance ratio of the Ibuypower PC I had that convinced me to build all my gaming PCs myself.

Valve putting its oar in isn't anything to be surprised about.

Which is exactly why I'm confused about how excited some people seem about these things.

I think "Office 365" was my breaking point.

I... erm.. eewwwww. I hadn't heard about that one before (office 2007 4 life). Its a good thing open office exists because that... thing looks terrible.

Have you ever downloaded a mod from the Nexus mod database? A bored programmer made that, and you used it.

I could be wrong about this, but aren't most Bethesda game mods made using the creation tools, which to my knowledge only work on windows?

It's not so much that they're "superior" as much as they're at much, MUCH less risk of trying to BS you.

Honestly the effort it would take to switch over still seems to outweigh the benefits for me at this point, especially considering a lot of those "free open source alternative" applications are available for windows too, but you have helped me at least somewhat understand the Linux crowd, so thanks.

 

[lacktheknack]

Yes.

nooooooo. This can not be allowed to continue. wat do?

I'd say "evangelize", but we all know how much the internet enjoys being evangelized to.

I suppose we could let them have a Steam Machine for a while and then tell them "You realize it's a full-on PC, right?"

It's rebranding, but I don't see an issue with that.

Honestly neither do I, its just that the amount of hype some people appear to have for these things seems excessive for them just being a new brand of Prebuilt, so I thought I might be missing something.

I mean, you do realize that Alienware/ibuypower do have an audience, right? I used to be part of it.

I know they do, and I too used to be part of it. Its the number of issues and terrible price to performance ratio of the Ibuypower PC I had that convinced me to build all my gaming PCs myself.

Valve putting its oar in isn't anything to be surprised about.

Which is exactly why I'm confused about how excited some people seem about these things.

Ah. That makes sense.

I think the main difference is that Steam Machine has the potential to be somewhat less expensive than Alienware, and is specifically designed to be left in your living room.

I think "Office 365" was my breaking point.

I... erm.. eewwwww. I hadn't heard about that one before (office 2007 4 life). Its a good thing open office exists because that... thing looks terrible.

;___;

This is why I'm increasingly anxious to escape Microsoft. Imagine if they did this with an OS.

Have you ever downloaded a mod from the Nexus mod database? A bored programmer made that, and you used it.

I could be wrong about this, but aren't most Bethesda game mods made using the creation tools, which to my knowledge only work on windows?

Well, if a third of the PC gaming community moves to Linux, then you can bet they'll find bring Elder Scrolls VI and its Creation kit to Linux as well.

And also, there were thousands of mods out and circulating well before the Creation Kit came out. Creation Kit just made it easier to make mods.

It's not so much that they're "superior" as much as they're at much, MUCH less risk of trying to BS you.

Honestly the effort it would take to switch over still seems to outweigh the benefits for me at this point, especially considering a lot of those "free open source alternative" applications are available for windows too, but you have helped me at least somewhat understand the Linux crowd, so thanks.

Fair enough, and you're welcome.

 

[Vigormortis]

Unless you are someone like me who literally does not understand the point of Linux and has never heard anyone justify it with reasons other than "M$ rapes fish! Death to Windows! Death to Bill Gate$!" or "but.. but... open source" neither of which actually make a good case.

How about Linux; or more to the point SteamOS; having a more efficient kernel and significantly far less system bloat?

Assuming Valve's promises of drastically improved drive support are true, SteamOS will be a more stable and more efficient operating environment for whatever games are coded for it. Meaning you can run the latest, greatest graphic-whore-pleasing games, at max settings, with far lower system specs than the equivalent PC or MAC versions. Or, to use some internet vernacular: you can achieve "god-tier" levels of gaming performance without having to spend ridiculous amount of cash on "god-tier" hardware.

A lot of the excitement seen not only among members of the gaming community but also among members and veterans of the gaming industry stems from this idea. The idea of not only an open-source coding environment, but one that is faster, more stable, more reliable, and more customizable than Windows or iOS.

It's not just all, "hur grrr we hate Microsoft because reasons!"

 

[taciturnCandid]

How about "Windows 8, with its constant transition to touchscreen interfaces, an app store and subscribed software stacked on bloatware, makes me a sad panda"?

That is weird that windows 8 is a constant transition to touchscreen interface because ever since I updated to 8.1 I don't even see the start screen anymore. It is there but I am never forced to interact with it because I boot to desktop and I have all my most used programs pinned to the taskbar. Furthermore a quick search gets anything I don't have pinned very quickly.

The app store is something optional that isn't being pushed by microsoft that hard. They haven't really required anything to be purely app store and most things offered in the app store are offered in the desktop as well. Most people don't even touch it and microsoft hasn't exactly been forcing anything on there.

And bloating? Windows 8 has always run on less ram and been less of a tax on cpu than windows 7 for me. It might help that I custom installed it myself and so I don't have any bloatware installed.

I haven't had a single crash on windows 8 ever since I installed and no virus problems. It has remained stable.



On topic: What are they thinking with that power supply? I can't see them running that hardware on that power supply.

 

[Strazdas]

Why a freaking Titan?!?? That thing is useless, unless you are going for a triple monitor setup or 4K res, and even then its still debatable whether its worth it. And the power supply does look kinda weak.
And no GAMING PC needs 16 Gigs of Ram. 8 Gigs? 12 Gigs? Maybe, and the second is already pushing it. 16 is just not necessary.

Needed, no unecessary. Do not forget that gaming PCs went with 4 GB when consoles went with 0,5 GB. consoles now go with 16 GB, so....

So folks who know about PC bits, does this tell us anything about pricing other than there will be one ridiculously expensive box?

Ridiculously expensive assuming you get the Titan/i7. Not to mention the Power Supply seems WAY to tiny. My computer uses less specs and required a 600w Power Supply to run well without shitting itself. Also the specs are just... fucked up beyond belief. It looks like someone who has never built a PC and just cobbled together random parts laying around.

EDIT: So you understand the expensiveness, a Titan goes from anywhere between 700 USD to 1000 USD.

1. new components often actually require less power because they are usually smaller actually. so the pwoer requirements are actually downsizing the better components we go.
Also as far as PSU goes, notice they went for 80plus GOLD. which means very good efficiency, usually 80 silver is enough for regular gaming PC, and the pre-built ones are usually nonames that does not even pass silver tests. to put it short - the PSU they are using is an expesive monster.

I bought a 1000W power supply three years ago for $450, and I regret nothing.

Except your electricity bill

 

[Griffolion]

It was going so great until I saw the PSU as unbranded. What a shame. Hopefully they can see sense and at least get in a reputable make for the real thing.

 

[Ravesy]

I bought a 1000W power supply three years ago for $450, and I regret nothing.

Except your electricity bill

The PSU only uses the power needed by the PC, he could have a 5000 Watt PSU in there and it wouldn't change his electric bill .

 

[Strazdas]

I bought a 1000W power supply three years ago for $450, and I regret nothing.

Except your electricity bill

The PSU only uses the power needed by the PC, he could have a 5000 Watt PSU in there and it wouldn't change his electric bill .

the PSU uses the power needed by PC + inefficiency. PSUs are most efficient when used at around 80% load. both above and bellow that introduces inefficiency, and the curve is rather steep. If he is using a 1000W PSU and his computer in fact drains 400W, around 200W extra will get turned to heat due to inefficiency, so his eclectricity bill will come for 600W, huge wastage. Where if he had been using 600W PSU to begin with and drain 400W, the inefficiency would be much lower, closer to 450W,meaning much less electricity costs.

It was going so great until I saw the PSU as unbranded. What a shame. Hopefully they can see sense and at least get in a reputable make for the real thing.

The PSU has a gold certificate (at least it looks like that). Any PSU that passes that is good. Most "branded ones" only go for silver. It could just be a costum order built for Valve and thats it.

 

[Ravesy]

I bought a 1000W power supply three years ago for $450, and I regret nothing.

Except your electricity bill

The PSU only uses the power needed by the PC, he could have a 5000 Watt PSU in there and it wouldn't change his electric bill .

the PSU uses the power needed by PC + inefficiency. PSUs are most efficient when used at around 80% load. both above and bellow that introduces inefficiency, and the curve is rather steep. If he is using a 1000W PSU and his computer in fact drains 400W, around 200W extra will get turned to heat due to inefficiency, so his eclectricity bill will come for 600W, huge wastage. Where if he had been using 600W PSU to begin with and drain 400W, the inefficiency would be much lower, closer to 450W,meaning much less electricity costs.

True I guess, but chances are with his 1000W PSU hes going to be running around the sweet spot of 50% load on it (I thought it was 50%, not 80% that was best, but by all means correct me as I haven't looked into it for some time!). I don't disagree that it will draw slightly more than a 600W one, but I cant see the difference really having a noticeable effect on the electric bill surely?

 

[Strazdas]

I bought a 1000W power supply three years ago for $450, and I regret nothing.

Except your electricity bill

The PSU only uses the power needed by the PC, he could have a 5000 Watt PSU in there and it wouldn't change his electric bill .

the PSU uses the power needed by PC + inefficiency. PSUs are most efficient when used at around 80% load. both above and bellow that introduces inefficiency, and the curve is rather steep. If he is using a 1000W PSU and his computer in fact drains 400W, around 200W extra will get turned to heat due to inefficiency, so his eclectricity bill will come for 600W, huge wastage. Where if he had been using 600W PSU to begin with and drain 400W, the inefficiency would be much lower, closer to 450W,meaning much less electricity costs.

True I guess, but chances are with his 1000W PSU hes going to be running around the sweet spot of 50% load on it (I thought it was 50%, not 80% that was best, but by all means correct me as I haven't looked into it for some time!). I don't disagree that it will draw slightly more than a 600W one, but I cant see the difference really having a noticeable effect on the electric bill surely?

You are somewhat correct. The peak efficiency is 50-85%, 65-80% for more highly rated PSUs (This one is gold, ratings go, from best to worst: Platinum, Gold (this one), Silver, not-rated), as well as better efficiency with higher rated ones usually.
Considering that a gaming PC is one of the most electricity intensive things in most households it will have an effect.
A gaming PC, while gaming, is expected to draw up to 600W (and used to be more) power. A gaming PC can be on for hours, and in some extreme cases lime myself, sometimes on for 16 hours striaght. Thats A LOT of consumtion.
Lets see what else uses a lot of power in your house:
Vacuum cleaner (800-1000W) - that is on once a week for 5-10 minutes. not significant comparison.
Refrigirator (which in some household is over half of the bill, or at least thats what people think), depends on model of course. Mine for example uses 324KW per year, which if averaging would be 37w of constant train. 20 times less than PC, but of course it stays on 24/7.
Washing machine/dishwasher. Not sure how much electricity dishwashers use, but smart people calculated that its cheaper than washing by hand. Washing mashines arent THAT powerful really. most electricity used for water heating. Googling some numbers i get ~1000W for dishwasher (thought its less) and washing machines around 400W. This would be a good contester ir not for the fact that both are turned once or twice a week, not sure how long dishwasher goes though its cycles (dont have one) but washing machine takes 2 hours.
Electric oven/cooking plate/microwave - now this is contender. Microwaves are above 1000W but only run for a few minutes, so actual consumtion is less. MY electric stowe can go as high as 1800W, and if your cooking for a while (for example a cake!) this can last for hours. but people who use these usually have cheaper electricity contracts. but thats a healthy contender.
What else, we got the "enviromental evil" lightbulbs. While true years ago, now everyone uses either the saving lgihtbulbs or LED (thats even better) lightbulbs. one bulb consumetion of mine is 4W. we dont evne have to count those nowadays.
"A big ass TV" is probably the best contender. depending on what kind of technology used and size of screen can go from 100W to 2000W. of course electricity instalation permitting (i got 15000W line but i used to live where 2000W was total line strenght of whole household). but then, so does monitor, altrough i havent seen a huge plasma monitor yet, and ive seen TV. (plasma ones use obscene amounts of electricity).

And unless i mised something thats about it. As far as constant long term usage PCs are one of those things that given to Gamers they are very hungry. Of course now more popular are the Laptops with 90W PSUs, that dont do anything similar, but thats not going to be one.

Jeez, it got longwinded, sorry.

 

[KungFuJazzHands]

Valve are assuming that the top-tier specs they've released may represent "the kind of machine that a significant percentage of Steam users would actually want to purchase", which anyone who has enough Steam friends knows is pure horseshit -- nobody except the most wasteful spenders (i.e. Valve's most favored customers) are going to be willing to fork out the cash required to pick up a secondary gaming rig like that. If by "significant percentage" they mean the mighty 1% of Steam users who can afford to buy the entire Steam catalog, then they're right on the mark. Otherwise, Valve are already off to a bad start in their Hardware & Consumer Assessment 101 education.

We don't know if Valve are going to be selling Steam Machine units directly, which is something that would (hopefully) indicate some kind of quality control on their part. They may feature a handful of specific boutique builds at the Steam Store, but everything we've seen so far regarding the Steam Machine seems to indicate that Valve will be allowing anyone with a screwdriver and a business license the freedom to design and sell these things.

The whole retail process for the Steam Machine is looking messier and messier with each new bit of information that surfaces. The unrealistic specs, the haphazard partnering plans, and Valve's over-eagerness to make this project as open as possible due to Gaben's delusional hatred of Microsoft make me wonder how much meaningful research they've actually done.