If I wanted the console experience, I'd be on a console. Leave it there...I deal with enough immature 12 year olds on WoW.
Valve Boss: New Intel CPU Allows a "Console-Like Experience" on the PC
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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It's capitalism. It's Intel trying to leverage their position as the most popular CPU manufacturer to unload their shitty, shitty GPU tech on people with their new APUs and there by cutting the sales of both AMD and nVidia discrete GPU cards... and as an added bonus, hopefully increase their CPU market share at AMD's expense.Raiyan 1.0 said:
That's the reason why, despite the impressive performance of the 2nd gen i7 CPUs, there will only ever be crappy GPUs on the APU die - with a 'enthusiast' level GPU they'd be impossible to keep cool without switching up to watercooling. Trying to OC them would probably require a freon or N2 system.bahumat42 said:yeah i can imagine that thing being a ***** for cooling and overclockingZer_ said:
Where is the obligatory "Gabe Newell Trollface" image? It should have been here by now. Wait a minute...
There we go.
Oh Gabe, every one of you press releases becomes instant comedy gold.
There we go.
Oh Gabe, every one of you press releases becomes instant comedy gold.
When I read this I think of some one trying to make a bike more like a car.
They have those and there a shit combination of both, watered down in all aspects that attempt to distinguish them. If I put the time money into a gaming PC and have the patience to learn how to work it I think that states I don?t want a console experience.
If however it is an attempt to entice some new blood into PC gaming fair enough, just let the fucktards stay with the consoles and welcome to everyone whose obstacle to PC gaming is money or the reputation PC gaming has for being expensive.
He needs to provide a context if he is trying to make present or future PC?s into glowing Xboxes then we will have a problem if it?s a rail to lean on when buying or developing for one fair enough.
They have those and there a shit combination of both, watered down in all aspects that attempt to distinguish them. If I put the time money into a gaming PC and have the patience to learn how to work it I think that states I don?t want a console experience.
If however it is an attempt to entice some new blood into PC gaming fair enough, just let the fucktards stay with the consoles and welcome to everyone whose obstacle to PC gaming is money or the reputation PC gaming has for being expensive.
He needs to provide a context if he is trying to make present or future PC?s into glowing Xboxes then we will have a problem if it?s a rail to lean on when buying or developing for one fair enough.
PC land is already 99% standardized.Tom Phoenix said:
In the case of GPUs, it's all M$ directx compliant and since dx9c there's very little wriggle room left.
The only thing a clueless needs to do is visit xbitlabs and compare the overal benchmarks to know how fast the device goes for the money.
Installing a card has always been trivial.
Sorry to intercept here =P But as a person who has played anything by Bethesda on each of the available platforms, PC has always come out on top. It just plays better is all. Shooters give you better relex action too. Sorry again =PBealzibob said:Sorry what? All I heard was "grunt, grunt, *scratch*, grunt, GRUNT! *Smacks club against the ground*".mindlesspuppet said:
OP:I have only a basic understand of computer hardware and am gifted with the hand-me-downs of a far more richer computer owner. So I'm going to assume valve, being omniscient and all, know what they are doing and thus this will be good. Havn't bought a new console game in a long time but I still find it hard to think of a game (thats not a RTS or MMO) that I'd would prefer to play on a computer.
TBH, most people on here claiming that a CPU / GPU combination is a positive thing for performance, are quite honestly wrong on so many levels. Look at it this way, A CPU's architecture is designed to maximise the efficiency of the CPU alone, if you attach a GPU onto that then all of a sudden arises the issue of bottlenecks for your whole system if you need to process graphics output and every other process through the same device.
So in order to get a decent level of performance (I'm defining decent as 40+ FPS) You would need to increase the CPU from its original level (Lets say an i7 950 for example) of 3.06ghz up to 4.36ghz in order to ensure there was no drop in performance due to the GPU running at 1.30ghz.
As already mentioned, the heat that would be generated from the voltage required to keep this stable would be astronomical with drastically different heat dispersion methods being required, as standard HSF systems simply cannot deal with these temperatures.
While this idea of a Combined CPU/GPU idea provides a cheaper and simpler alternative to PCI-E cards, the current technology will not allow it to be competitive in the PC gaming industry due to the level of graphics nowadays, so while the console experience could be had from this CPU/GPU combo, it would be that of many years past and not a current day experience.
So in order to get a decent level of performance (I'm defining decent as 40+ FPS) You would need to increase the CPU from its original level (Lets say an i7 950 for example) of 3.06ghz up to 4.36ghz in order to ensure there was no drop in performance due to the GPU running at 1.30ghz.
As already mentioned, the heat that would be generated from the voltage required to keep this stable would be astronomical with drastically different heat dispersion methods being required, as standard HSF systems simply cannot deal with these temperatures.
While this idea of a Combined CPU/GPU idea provides a cheaper and simpler alternative to PCI-E cards, the current technology will not allow it to be competitive in the PC gaming industry due to the level of graphics nowadays, so while the console experience could be had from this CPU/GPU combo, it would be that of many years past and not a current day experience.
Just a little side note here, for all of those complaining about how it's too hard to build a computer and that many people lack the know how, there are places that build computers to spec for you. For instance a place round the corner from my house (it's virtually a parts warehouse) allows you to pick the parts you want (there are guys offering tips and advice too for the not so literate) and then at a budget cost build it for you. Since they buy the parts in bulk you usually get discount prices. My rig that I'm using from two-three years ago has a 23inch screen, keyboard + mouse, 2 speakers and a subwoofer and a coolermaster, on the inside I have a pretty decent motherboard, 1gb ddr3 card and 4gb of ram for around $1100 AU. Which is pretty freakin' good considering how much of a mark up EVERYTHING electronic gets in Aus... Oh this turned out bigger than I expected. /Text Wall
Actually the APU does offer some positives steps forward but only in the areas of portable devices and computing solutions that have minimal requirements for graphics processing.Patrunic said:
I personally think AMD are being more realistic about the future of APUs because they're aiming their Fusion line at laptop/netbook and Home Theatre PC markets, using lower end/mobility rated CPUs and the GPUs they usually reserve for use in integrated setups for the Fusion APUs. For units that have computing needs that rarely go beyond running Office and Media Player APUs are quite a good solution, especially where the size of the unit is a concern.
As far as tasks that are demanding of graphic processing go, though? Not anytime in the next few years and even as they do improve and become capable of gaming an APU will not match the performance of a CPU and a GPU running seperately.
I do, however, think the 2nd generation i7s are going to be massively popular. The CPU portion of the APU is very impressive, after all. However, I also think that for any gamer that gets one the first thing they'll do is disable the GPU and stick with their discrete GPU card(s).
That's great Valve.
Now make a game that my Core i3 will support will you?
Also, you know my 2GB Graphics Card that should own all your games?
Make them work for it too!
I did not spend £1500 on a computer only to have your games that I spend £30 on refuse to play on an unrecognised Graphics Card because the card is too obscure and powerful!
*goes back to playing the only two non-indie games that work on my computer. TF2 and New Vegas*
Now make a game that my Core i3 will support will you?
Also, you know my 2GB Graphics Card that should own all your games?
Make them work for it too!
I did not spend £1500 on a computer only to have your games that I spend £30 on refuse to play on an unrecognised Graphics Card because the card is too obscure and powerful!
*goes back to playing the only two non-indie games that work on my computer. TF2 and New Vegas*
Have you seen what the bulldozer processors will be able to do? I'm sure the new i7s will perform well. In fact I'm sure there will be a pretty significant performance increase (they said 50% or more, but that's what they say).RhombusHatesYou said:
Honestly, I see the bulldozer coming out on top. AMD is redesigning the processor. It will implement something similar to hyperthreading, but instead of being one single CPU working under two threads, it's basically 1.5 CPUs. There are 2 "cores" (integer units, the actual brains of a CPU) that each have their own cache, they also share the usual components found in any traditional CPU core. This means that it literally has two hardware threads.
The new i7s will have 258 bit floating point capabilities, where each of the modules found in the dozers will be able to do 128 bit floating point calculations. In the end we'll need to see the benchmarks. But I believe that AMD will start to dominate the mid-range market soon enough.
Oh, the Bulldozer processors will be the shit when they launch... but when has AMD having a superior product ever stopped people from buying Intel processors as if they were automatic headjob dispensers?Zer_ said:
... thus, by leveraging monopoly in the CPU/GPU market, they'll amass enough stocks to overshadow everyone else, followed by them sending lobbyists into the White House to enact legislations that'll drive out whoever remains to finally set up their Communist regime!RhombusHatesYou said:
(I'm kidding, I'm kidding - I totally agree with you. I just used Communism because it's everyone's boogeyman - my original post wouldn't have been as... erm... 'scary', if I used Capitalism. I'm a firm believer in Socialism, just so you know.)
Who said I was talking solely about the GPU? We need a standard set of system specifications (meaning, CPU, GPU, RAM...the whole shebang) that hardware manufacturers and game developers would follow for a certain number of years before switching over to a new standard.veloper said:
Plus, the fact that all GPUs are DirectX compliant means jack squat. There are plenty of graphics cards that support a specific DirectX version and there are even more potential CPUs, RAMs, motherboards etc. they can be combined with, potentially resulting in technical issues and certainly resulting in the confusion of less technically-savvy customers.
The fact is, if we want PC gaming to be competitive with console gaming, there is little choice but to make purchasing and using PC hardware and software as easy or nearly as easy as purchasing and using console hardware and software. It won't be easy if undertaken, but it has to be done if PC gaming is to have a future.
Directx means that any modern AMD or Nvidia card will do what it's supposed to do and money only buys you more speed.Tom Phoenix said:
The rest is even easier nowadays.
CPU: anything more than a core i5 is overkill. A phenomII x3 will even do in a pinch.
RAM: 4 GB is standard nowadays and that's more than games need
mainboard: hasn't really mattered since 2004. Anything with a PCI-E slot that comes with your run off the mill PC will do.
Buy any mainstream desktop today and tick an a videocard in 100 range on purchase and you're set.
This does not give the average buyer the best bang per buck, but it will run every game out there no hassle.
Your concearns may have been valid 10 years ago.