Valve Not Interested in "Selling Out"
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
I suppose it depends upon what mechanism you use to qualify brilliance. If you choose to use a measurable benchmark, such as critical and commercial success, the statement can, in fact, be supported seeing as each of their games has been both critically and commercially successful.SaintWaldo said:
If you use some metric that is impossible to measure, then yes, the statement is impossible to support. From a simple rhetorical standpoint, I'd say this statement is a valid argument. The counter to such an argument generally lies in definition, specifically what is "brilliance" and how does one measure it.[/quote]
It's not presented as an argument or an opinion or a qualified statement of fact. It's a an assertion of opinion as fact. Popularity or acclaim do not require one to agree with any of those statements, as they are both just as subjective as the original statement. And consumers of The Orange Box on PS3 might have something to say about the use of the phrase, "unerringly brilliant". Since reasonable dispute exists, a word like "unerringly" crosses the line of qualification into assertion absent any qualifiers.
Opinions aren't facts. My request is that the fine folks that contribute here stop speaking as if they were.[/quote]
As I said before, the assertion has rhetorical merit. If you disagree with the assertion, it must be on the basis of definition of the word "brilliant". If I, for example, define "brilliant" to mean "critical and commercial success", I would find that the statement moves beyond the realm of an assertion of opinion and into the realm of verifiable fact.
Your argument is, quite clearly, that the word "brilliant" describes something that cannot be unambiguously and objectively measured. I do not inherently disagree with this position. More to the point, you are correct: this counter-argument could be rendered moot if, instead of using a word like "brilliant" which is open to interpretation (and thus a weakness in the argument that can be attacked) they instead said: ". . . valve is slow but they have produced an unerring string of critical and commercial successes." there would be no room for alternate interpretations and the argument would be firmly couched in a scenario where there exists reliable sources of unbiased information which could confirm or deny the assertion.
Basically, the rhetorical difference between my example and what was used was simply which segment of rhetoric was being called. Using the word "brilliant" implies a call to ethos (Trading upon one's perceived character in an argument in order to grant veracity to the assertion) and pathos (the response to such a phrase will almost certainly be couched in emotion as much as anything. If you loved all of valve's games for example, one would tend to respond positively to the argument). You advocate a stronger focus on the logos portion, upon facts and logical assertions. This is an important part of rhetoric certainly but without the other two segments it is all but meaningless. The "truth" of an argument is irrelevant unless the argument itself is convincing. As such, I stand by my point. The assertion had rhetorical merit.
Aren't we a wee bit touchy here... Yeah, Valve's previous support for the PS3 has been non-existent. They've outsourced the porting to other companies on all occasions, and the PS3 owners were left with mediocrity. Valve then stopped support of the PS3 altogether until they could provide a better experience for PS3 users.SaintWaldo said:
I can't blame them for dropping support. It would have been nice to see them patch the game, but that's another issue. Now that they have the proper resources to port their own games to PS3 they're doing so, and we have yet to see what will come out of it.
Aside from that, Valve's business model has worked exceptionally well for them, and the PC gaming community. Yes, Valve is predominantly a PC game developer, and for them consoles are an afterthought. One could say the same for Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto IV on PC, it was lackluster and poorly coded. It ran like ass on almost any PC configuration. At least we know Valve is working to improve their console releases, especially when it comes to the PS3.
That and Steam is the best digital distribution platform. Yes, it's DRM; but I rather enjoy the DRM since it provides something to the end user as opposed to most other forms of DRM which only serve to take away from the end user.
I was just thinking thatlaryri said:
I agree with Gabe, and love his philosphy but having Christopher Walken in oh say... Half Life 3 would be awesome. Actually now that I think about it, it could be a hint of things to come...
*tinfoil hat equipped*
First, look up the word, "detente". It pretty much states I'm not touchy.Zer_ said:
And it's not about the PS3, it's about the unqualified glad-handing of Valve (or anyone, regardless of tribe) unmarked as opinion. Everything in your statement supports my (gentle) push-back on the use of a word like "unerringly" to describe any perceived "brilliance" on Valve's part.
It Seems as though....... i ..... am heavy .... weaponsguy. And uh. this, this right here..... is my weapon.FungiGamer said:
It costs a monkey butt load...... of ....moola to keep her ...... run....ing