Valve Reveals the Steam Controller

[cikame]

I need to see the designers of the controller playing devil may cry or a fighting game using it... if that's possible.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I do not mind the lack of sticks its the button placements that are silly as most 3d games the left thumb is rarely off the stick and for this you have 2 or 3 main buttons right by it, if they were extra buttons it would not be a problem..

They are extra buttons. It's the right trackpad that'll take the place of a standard controller's A, B, X, and Y buttons, as clicking the top of the pad will function like pressing Y, clicking the bottom will be A, and so on. What the Steam controller calls "ABXY" are really more like its equivalents of Start and Back (I wouldn't be surprised if they were renamed 1, 2, 3, and 4 or something upon release to make it less confusing), useful primarily for mapping hotkeys to.

Assuming a standard controller setup where the left sensorthingy controls movement, this controller seems to have only two buttons accessible (outside two possible buttons) without taking your hands off your movement pad. That... doesn't seem like a good idea to me, the controller already has too few buttons compared to a keyboard.

Without moving your thumbs from the trackpads, you can use the four triggers with your index fingers, the back two buttons with any of your other fingers, and the clicking function on the trackpads with (of course) your thumbs, for a total of eight. And since, as described, each trackpad is really four clickable buttons instead of just one, the total is really more like eleven or even fourteen, depending on how you view it. Then removing your thumbs from the pads gives you eight more buttons to relegate less crucial functions to, not to mention all the options the touchscreen opens up.

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

When the Super Meat Boy dev tested the controller, the right trackpad was the jump button.

So? I am thinking beyond simplistic 2D and 3D I am thinking about AAA FPS and AAA action titles like Batman and fighting games.

Whats the point in making a controller that's limited to only some games even if it's the majority?

Ask the people who made every controller ever, despite RTSs not being playable on them.

That said, the trackpads are buttons. You said they weren't, but they are. They can be used as a full button, or divided into directional input.

Ya but that's when you have a controller with 2 sticks a dpad and 12 buttons. This thing is lacking in control options thus can be optimized to play anything but simple steam games.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Assuming a standard controller setup where the left sensorthingy controls movement, this controller seems to have only two buttons accessible (outside two possible buttons) without taking your hands off your movement pad. That... doesn't seem like a good idea to me, the controller already has too few buttons compared to a keyboard.

I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated until people understand this, but eight of the sixteen buttons on the controller are able to be pressed without removing your thumbs from the trackpads.

Four trigger/shoulder buttons, two clickable trackpads, and the two underslung buttons on the back of the controller.

And, this isn't even counting the possibility of coding one of the trackpads to function as a series of extra buttons.

Also, with the touchscreen, one can theoretically have a near limitless number of extra buttons.

Oh god thats stupid its like putting buttons on the Dpad or in the vertical clear areas of a dpad and you since you don't have a stick or 4 trackpads and ahve to use it for "everything" you are screwed.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

...Um, no. It's for both. Like I explained, you drag your thumb across it to look around, and you click different sections of it to use as different buttons. You can read this hands-on account [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TommyRefenes/20130928/201219/My_time_with_the_Steam_Controller.php] for further detail, but I'll leave the relevant quote below:

But that's Meat Boy, I wanted to see how it would do with a game where multiple inputs were required. Naturally, I requested Spelunky. Spelunky requires Whip, Jump, Bomb, and Rope buttons. We configured the controller to play like an Xbox controller. So the left circle pad was once again used for the directional buttons, and the right circle pad was used as A, B, X, Y buttons in the orientation that you find on an Xbox Controller. I played through Spelunky and the controller worked great.

Image that you have buttons on a Dpad and around it, and that's what this thing is. Now mind you it may work for simple games but for complex ones where you need finger precision it simple will not do. Its like learning to play the violin it has no frets nothing to guide you where stuff is.

 

[lacktheknack]

I do not mind the lack of sticks its the button placements that are silly as most 3d games the left thumb is rarely off the stick and for this you have 2 or 3 main buttons right by it, if they were extra buttons it would not be a problem..

They are extra buttons. It's the right trackpad that'll take the place of a standard controller's A, B, X, and Y buttons, as clicking the top of the pad will function like pressing Y, clicking the bottom will be A, and so on. What the Steam controller calls "ABXY" are really more like its equivalents of Start and Back (I wouldn't be surprised if they were renamed 1, 2, 3, and 4 or something upon release to make it less confusing), useful primarily for mapping hotkeys to.

Assuming a standard controller setup where the left sensorthingy controls movement, this controller seems to have only two buttons accessible (outside two possible buttons) without taking your hands off your movement pad. That... doesn't seem like a good idea to me, the controller already has too few buttons compared to a keyboard.

Without moving your thumbs from the trackpads, you can use the four triggers with your index fingers, the back two buttons with any of your other fingers, and the clicking function on the trackpads with (of course) your thumbs, for a total of eight. And since, as described, each trackpad is really four clickable buttons instead of just one, the total is really more like eleven or even fourteen, depending on how you view it. Then removing your thumbs from the pads gives you eight more buttons to relegate less crucial functions to, not to mention all the options the touchscreen opens up.

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

When the Super Meat Boy dev tested the controller, the right trackpad was the jump button.

So? I am thinking beyond simplistic 2D and 3D I am thinking about AAA FPS and AAA action titles like Batman and fighting games.

Whats the point in making a controller that's limited to only some games even if it's the majority?

Ask the people who made every controller ever, despite RTSs not being playable on them.

That said, the trackpads are buttons. You said they weren't, but they are. They can be used as a full button, or divided into directional input.

Ya but that's when you have a controller with 2 sticks a dpad and 12 buttons. This thing is lacking in control options thus can be optimized to play anything but simple steam games.

This one has two haptic trackpads, a touchscreen and 14-16 buttons (depending on if you consider the trackpads to be full on buttons... which they are... but I'll give you some wiggle room).

How is that "lacking in control options" in any way, shape or form?

I can very easily imagine how to play Street Fighter, Dark Souls, Myst, Saints Row, Castle Story, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and literally any other game I have on Steam.

Seriously. Lay out for me how this is "lacking control options", seeing how this controller has MORE input options than any other controller to date.

 

[lacktheknack]

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

...Um, no. It's for both. Like I explained, you drag your thumb across it to look around, and you click different sections of it to use as different buttons. You can read this hands-on account [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TommyRefenes/20130928/201219/My_time_with_the_Steam_Controller.php] for further detail, but I'll leave the relevant quote below:

But that's Meat Boy, I wanted to see how it would do with a game where multiple inputs were required. Naturally, I requested Spelunky. Spelunky requires Whip, Jump, Bomb, and Rope buttons. We configured the controller to play like an Xbox controller. So the left circle pad was once again used for the directional buttons, and the right circle pad was used as A, B, X, Y buttons in the orientation that you find on an Xbox Controller. I played through Spelunky and the controller worked great.

Image that you have buttons on a Dpad and around it, and that's what this thing is. Now mind you it may work for simple games but for complex ones where you need finger precision it simple will not do. Its like learning to play the violin it has no frets nothing to guide you where stuff is.

<spoiler=Exasperation enclosed>Why

Are

You

So

Certain

About

This

When

A

Problem

Like

This

Has

An

Easy

Fix

That

They've

Certainly

Already

Used

Questionmark

 

[bafrali]

Well it seems that I am late to the party. No problem though. I was expecting Valve to do something that would be memorable, risky and totally out of left field regardless of the quality. And if the escapist is any indication, they managed to burn a hole in the collective minds of th gamers yet again.

I won't lie. I was expecting people to throw a temper tantrum as if Valve has come into their house, broken their limited edition controllers and announced that steam machines would be only playable with their new controller and I was giggling like a maniac with anticipation of flames spread by the wind of misinformation.

As for the controller, it just looks too radical to be ignored nad it is the most exciting piece of news about hardware recently as far as I am concerned. Now all I have to know is the price...and a release date obviously.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I do not mind the lack of sticks its the button placements that are silly as most 3d games the left thumb is rarely off the stick and for this you have 2 or 3 main buttons right by it, if they were extra buttons it would not be a problem..

They are extra buttons. It's the right trackpad that'll take the place of a standard controller's A, B, X, and Y buttons, as clicking the top of the pad will function like pressing Y, clicking the bottom will be A, and so on. What the Steam controller calls "ABXY" are really more like its equivalents of Start and Back (I wouldn't be surprised if they were renamed 1, 2, 3, and 4 or something upon release to make it less confusing), useful primarily for mapping hotkeys to.

Assuming a standard controller setup where the left sensorthingy controls movement, this controller seems to have only two buttons accessible (outside two possible buttons) without taking your hands off your movement pad. That... doesn't seem like a good idea to me, the controller already has too few buttons compared to a keyboard.

Without moving your thumbs from the trackpads, you can use the four triggers with your index fingers, the back two buttons with any of your other fingers, and the clicking function on the trackpads with (of course) your thumbs, for a total of eight. And since, as described, each trackpad is really four clickable buttons instead of just one, the total is really more like eleven or even fourteen, depending on how you view it. Then removing your thumbs from the pads gives you eight more buttons to relegate less crucial functions to, not to mention all the options the touchscreen opens up.

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

When the Super Meat Boy dev tested the controller, the right trackpad was the jump button.

So? I am thinking beyond simplistic 2D and 3D I am thinking about AAA FPS and AAA action titles like Batman and fighting games.

Whats the point in making a controller that's limited to only some games even if it's the majority?

Ask the people who made every controller ever, despite RTSs not being playable on them.

That said, the trackpads are buttons. You said they weren't, but they are. They can be used as a full button, or divided into directional input.

Ya but that's when you have a controller with 2 sticks a dpad and 12 buttons. This thing is lacking in control options thus can be optimized to play anything but simple steam games.

This one has two haptic trackpads, a touchscreen and 14-16 buttons (depending on if you consider the trackpads to be full on buttons... which they are... but I'll give you some wiggle room).

How is that "lacking in control options" in any way, shape or form?

I can very easily imagine how to play Street Fighter, Dark Souls, Myst, Saints Row, Castle Story, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and literally any other game I have on Steam.

Seriously. Lay out for me how this is "lacking control options", seeing how this controller has MORE input options than any other controller to date.

The LCD is not used for active buttons(buttons you have to get to quickly) but ya it could be used for a Dpad item/weapon section thing, but its still lacking buttons by the right trackpad to make games Batman or God of War easy to play, its about placement and this thing dose not have it.. but for the other 90% of games I guess it would work fine. LOL

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

...Um, no. It's for both. Like I explained, you drag your thumb across it to look around, and you click different sections of it to use as different buttons. You can read this hands-on account [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TommyRefenes/20130928/201219/My_time_with_the_Steam_Controller.php] for further detail, but I'll leave the relevant quote below:

But that's Meat Boy, I wanted to see how it would do with a game where multiple inputs were required. Naturally, I requested Spelunky. Spelunky requires Whip, Jump, Bomb, and Rope buttons. We configured the controller to play like an Xbox controller. So the left circle pad was once again used for the directional buttons, and the right circle pad was used as A, B, X, Y buttons in the orientation that you find on an Xbox Controller. I played through Spelunky and the controller worked great.

Image that you have buttons on a Dpad and around it, and that's what this thing is. Now mind you it may work for simple games but for complex ones where you need finger precision it simple will not do. Its like learning to play the violin it has no frets nothing to guide you where stuff is.

<spoiler=Exasperation enclosed>Why

Are

You

So

Certain

About

This

When

A

Problem

Like

This

Has

An

Easy

Fix

That

They've

Certainly

Already

Used

Questionmark

I am certain about it because I am currently playing Batman AC and trying to figure out how to apply this controller to it. I finally figured out that the LCD can be used as a mini item/weapon menu ala the Dpad. So that's more games it should work well enough with. I still do not see how this will work well for fighters but that's less of an issue as getting to the ABXY buttons quickly. I'm not going over half the pad to get to a button I need to press a millisecond ago.... this means the buttons have to be in the trackpad and that is where things make no sense.

 

[lacktheknack]

I am certain about it because I am currently playing Batman AC and trying to figure out how to apply this controller to it. I finally figured out that the LCD can be used as a mini item/weapon menu ala the Dpad. So that's more games it should work well enough with. I still do not see how this will work well for fighters but that's less of an issue as getting to the ABXY buttons quickly. I'm not going over half the pad to get to a button I need to press a millisecond ago.... this means the buttons have to be in the trackpad and that is where things make no sense.

There's six buttons you can use on the back/top to play a fighting game with.

Simple.

And if I'm reading it right, the right trackpad has multiple directions it can be pushed to initiate a grapple or a taunt.

The LCD is not used for active buttons(buttons you have to get to quickly) but ya it could be used for a Dpad item/weapon section thing, but its still lacking buttons by the right trackpad to make games Batman or God of War easy to play, its about placement and this thing dose not have it.. but for the other 90% of games I guess it would work fine. LOL

Placement can be relearned, you know. I've played games on controller AND keyboard, and completely switching hands, finger stance and feedback is really easy.

If nothing else, being able to play 90% of games is certainly a better track record than every other controller ever.

 

[Agayek]

I am certain about it because I am currently playing Batman AC and trying to figure out how to apply this controller to it. I finally figured out that the LCD can be used as a mini item/weapon menu ala the Dpad. So that's more games it should work well enough with. I still do not see how this will work well for fighters but that's less of an issue as getting to the ABXY buttons quickly. I'm not going over half the pad to get to a button I need to press a millisecond ago.... this means the buttons have to be in the trackpad and that is where things make no sense.

1) The face buttons (ABXY) aren't supposed to be used for anything time-intensive. They're intended to be roughly equivalent to the currently existing start/select buttons. You're supposed to be primarily using the shoulder buttons, the paddles on the back, and the trackpads for your primary interactions with the game.

2) There actually are buttons inside the trackpad. Check the testimony from the SMB developer [http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/62476523677/my-time-with-the-steam-controller]. He says explicitly that the trackpads can be configured to act as a multi-button layout.

The exact quote is:

I wanted to see how it would do with a game where multiple inputs were required. Naturally, I requested Spelunky. Spelunky requires Whip, Jump, Bomb, and Rope buttons. We configured the controller to play like an Xbox controller. So the left circle pad was once again used for the directional buttons, and the right circle pad was used as A, B, X, Y buttons in the orientation that you find on an Xbox Controller.

There's plenty of potential problems with the Steam controller, but the layout is most likely not one of them.

 

[Vigormortis]

Oh god thats stupid its like putting buttons on the Dpad or in the vertical clear areas of a dpad and you since you don't have a stick or 4 trackpads and ahve to use it for "everything" you are screwed.

Unless someone has a complete lack of muscle memory (which, if one did, would make even the most mundane physical activities incredibly slow and difficult) your complaint here is a non-issue.

I don't know about you, but if I have my thumb placed in the center of an area, I can pretty damn easily tell what is up, down, left, and right of that spot. And, with the addition of the small, raised dimples Valve's adding to the trackpads, I honestly fail to see how it would at all be difficult to use the trackpads as four buttons.

I mean, if you genuinely have trouble with movements based on muscle memory, I sympathize. That can't be an easy thing to deal with.

 

[Vigormortis]

Spoiler: Spoilered to adhere to forum quoting constraints.

Rumble is standard in all controllers now, it's not something that's in some, or requires a lot of effort,

Yeah. It is now. It wasn't before. When it first appeared it was barely a novelty.

But over time it became more prevalent. Now it's a standard.

So it bares asking: Why then are you so adamantly against this more advanced form of haptic feedback? Why are you SO convinced no one will want to use it when designing their games?

You act as though we should just stop making advances in our current controller technology. As if stagnation in this medium is a good thing.

I don't get that. Isn't stagnation the one thing this community almost universally complains about on a daily basis? Why now is everyone so afraid of a change?

seriously think about it do you think rumble is on the same level of complexity as dual traction pads with haptic tech in it?

No I don't. I said as much in my other posts. Rumble motors are one of the earlier and certainly more antiquated forms of haptic feedback.

And that's my point. This is advancement of current...er, well older...technology. It's the next logical step.

So again, I really can't understand the resistance to it.

You put it on impacts and adjust levels here and there, it's not something that needs to give the users thumbs tactile feelings to understand what's going on in what given situation and how much has to be applied in what part while maintaining what area does what.

Actually, they're meant to give a range of feelings across the entire hand. That's why proper rumble coding within the game space isn't as easy as you seem to think it is.

Getting the proper force and movement in the right moment isn't a simple thing. It's a balancing act.

Sure, some devs are lazy and just use basic configurations that trigger with everything ingame, but the craftier and more talented devs find more intricate and creative ways to use them.

These new actuators in the SteamController may let those same developers devise even greater levels of intricate feedback. Or, they can just be defaulted to basic rumble functions for the lazier, less skillful developers.

Uh, yes that was an accessory and again something easily programmed for that came with certain games.

It started as an accessory because, haptic feedback of any kind was a novelty back then. It was something that had never been tried in a consumer product like that before. But now, haptic feedback is not only standard it's expected. Yet, many of the console and input device manufactures seem content on utilizing haptic tech from two decades ago. It's time for something new and better.

And no, I don't care who brings it to the consumer base first. Whether it be Valve, Microsoft, Nintendo, or whoever. It just so happens that Valve seems to be the one to try it first.

What I'm implying is rumble comes in controllers now, even cheap 3rd party controllers, this is something that needs to be coded for and is advanced.

I don't get your point here? It's in controllers now, therefore we should never try something new? Resorting to stagnation again?

Yes, it is like the kinnect in the way that both the user has to learn how to use it and devs have to learn how to program for it and continue doing so for a device that is optional for your system much like the kinnect is. It's not a wii remote that comes with it, no one has to buy this thing so it's exactly the same.

The Kinect is a gimmicky input device that requires games to be coded in specific ways to utilize it. The SteamController is simply a standard-form input device. It's coding and design requirements are no different than, say, the Xbones controller or the PS4s controller.

Users don't have to "learn" anything about the haptic feedback system. No more than they have to learn the rumble motors in their current controllers. They're not integral to the user inputs. They're ancillary. They're there to enhance the player experience.

Coded it to work with every steam game? You know that's impossible, it's made with a default compatibility like any controller can do to a degree, they didn't and aren't about to sit there and make this controller function with every game.

That's why there's community open modding on it so the community can take advantage of it. This is why you can't just use a PS2 controller with every game or some games don't work with the dpad but the analog stick, you need to move the buttons around or sometimes get a key to joy program, it's not going to easily work with every game on steam that is just nonsense, and because games currently have no programming for this device it won't be taken advantage of so that means all but valve games will really feel awesome with the controller, others will just work or need work to function with games properly.

So...a default compatibility mode for the SteamController is a bad thing....but is an expected or even a good thing for every other controller? That's hardly a fair stance.

The modding tools available for the device aren't there so the community can do Valve's job for them. They're there because Valve understands that there are communities of modders out there that love to tinker with things. Valve's just making the tinkering process easier from the get-go.

Besides, Valve's already built in support for custom mapping. So you don't need some superfluous 3rd party program to get the controller to work for an older game, nor one that only uses keyboard and mouse. Just set the controller to "legacy mode" and you can map it like you would a keyboard and mouse.

No, it's not applicable to every controller because they adhere to a standard that has been established, 2 analog sticks 4 face buttons 2 option buttons 4 triggers a d-pad.

So any controller that doesn't have two analog sticks ,and all the other "standards" you claim, should not be considered a controller?

So gamers have never had proper game input devices until the Gamecube/PS2/Xbox era?

Maybe my memory's bad, because I seem to recall playing my NES/SNES/etc with a controller.

Or maybe, standards change. Maybe as new technology and new ideas come to light the "way things should be" changes to fit the new ideals.

This thing doesn't even have a dpad and is also relying on devs or the community to implement functionality for their controller.

Really... Now we're complaining about a lack of a d-pad?

The d-pad. The thing that is, on most of todays modern controllers, just an antiquated hold over from gamings past. The vast majority of games today just use them as an extra four buttons for crying out loud.

I don't get how you can claim Valve expects other developers to implement functionality into the thing. They are currently working with the development community to implement the features and functions those devs want. They aren't just throwing a bunch of tech into a shell and expecting everyone else to do the work to make it function.

Of course my criticisms are going to come off double sided

If you're aware that you're using double standards, then why continue to use them?

, you nor I don't have it in hands so the only thing we can do is either be skeptical or hopeful. I am both, I think you're leaning way too in favor optimism.

Should we all just be optimistic and excited? No there's opposites to everything, I don't hate the thing, I find it very interesting however I'm skeptical that I'd like it or that it's going to be a competitor to other current controllers. You don't have to like my opinion or thoughts, but I'm strictly voicing them for discussion.

You're right. Neither of us has one of these SteamControllers in our own hands to make a judgement on them.

And yes, in some ways I'm leaning towards optimism. I'm not naive or stupid enough to assume this thing will be a golden construct of perfection. Hell, for all I know I may find it to be the most uncomfortable and most awkward controller I've ever held. And given it's extremely unorthodox design that may very well end up being the case.

But, I'd rather be hopeful that someone is going to finally bring some advances to gaming input devices than assume it's going to fail.

Of course we should all show a bit of skepticism. Skepticism, as long as it's not extreme, is a healthy thing. But there's a difference between skepticism and pessimism. Many of the comments thus far have been squarely in the latter.

Which is fine. I don't care if people have already made up their minds to not like the thing. They're welcome to their opinions. But, that's not going to stop me from sharing my own. Nor, as has been the case since the reveal, will I refrain from pointing out the many petty and often irrational complaints I've seen from some people.

Regardless, I'm not sure you and I can come to a consensus on this. Not yet, anyway. It seems our views on what does and doesn't constitute a "proper controller" are too different. We'll just have to wait for the thing to hit the market to see what it's like.

But bare in mind, this SteamController isn't meant to replace every other controller on the market. It's simply meant as an alternative. Another option for those that want it. So if, say, it's lack of a d-pad REALLY bothers someone, there are other controllers they can turn to to satiate that need.

 

[Little Gray]

[
There's plenty of potential problems with the Steam controller, but the layout is most likely not one of them.

Except for when you run into a game which needs both analog sticks as well as the buttons. All of the games tested only needed one for movement. You need both trackpads for movement and camera which means you cant have one being used for buttons which means its a fairly useless controller.

 

[Agayek]

Except for when you run into a game which needs both analog sticks as well as the buttons. All of the games tested only needed one for movement. You need both trackpads for movement and camera which means you cant have one being used for buttons which means its a fairly useless controller.

Except that's what all the other buttons are for. There's at least 6 buttons immediately under your fingers, combined with the two trackpads "the-whole-thing-is-a-big-button" thing. On a 360 controller, using both sticks, you have 4, with the two analog sticks as potentially two more that go all but ignored.

That means that, at minimum, there's two additional buttons that you can click immediately without having to lift any of your fingers off the controller.

Now, you can counter that by pointing out that the 360 controller has two additional face buttons, but those come with some caveats of their own. Specifically that you need to move your thumb from the stick to push them, and that the distance from the right stick to the 360 face buttons looks to be roughly similar to the face buttons on that side of the Steam controller.

Like I said, there's plenty of potential issues with the thing, ranging from tangible, concise feedback to ergonomics, but the button layout is not really one of them.

 

[thewatergamer]

Ehhhh Ill admit looks very awkward and kind of weird, don't think I'd use it over a keyboard and mouse or gamepad, but I guess Ill wait and see what demonstrations give

 

[Strazdas]

I dont trust those pads. when i wabnt to drive faster i press my keyboard harder (silly i know). If i did same with this, it would break apart.
I do like the 2 speaker magnets turned into a vibrator though. its only a matter of time games are going to use this more for the extra sound effects than anything.

 

[Branindain]

That controller has actually gone some distance toward selling me this machine. If those pads can actually emulate both mice AND analogue sticks successfully, this could actually be a worthy advancement in controller tech at last. I would need to test it for myself but it smells ingenious to me. And I'm not a Valve guy, I'm a Sony guy.

 

[lacktheknack]

I dont trust those pads. when i wabnt to drive faster i press my keyboard harder (silly i know). If i did same with this, it would break apart.

False. Haptic Feedback Gen 4 (which is what this uses, I think) detects harder pushing and reacts accordingly.