Valve Reveals the Steam Controller

[lacktheknack]

I do not mind the lack of sticks its the button placements that are silly as most 3d games the left thumb is rarely off the stick and for this you have 2 or 3 main buttons right by it, if they were extra buttons it would not be a problem..

They are extra buttons. It's the right trackpad that'll take the place of a standard controller's A, B, X, and Y buttons, as clicking the top of the pad will function like pressing Y, clicking the bottom will be A, and so on. What the Steam controller calls "ABXY" are really more like its equivalents of Start and Back (I wouldn't be surprised if they were renamed 1, 2, 3, and 4 or something upon release to make it less confusing), useful primarily for mapping hotkeys to.

Assuming a standard controller setup where the left sensorthingy controls movement, this controller seems to have only two buttons accessible (outside two possible buttons) without taking your hands off your movement pad. That... doesn't seem like a good idea to me, the controller already has too few buttons compared to a keyboard.

Without moving your thumbs from the trackpads, you can use the four triggers with your index fingers, the back two buttons with any of your other fingers, and the clicking function on the trackpads with (of course) your thumbs, for a total of eight. And since, as described, each trackpad is really four clickable buttons instead of just one, the total is really more like eleven or even fourteen, depending on how you view it. Then removing your thumbs from the pads gives you eight more buttons to relegate less crucial functions to, not to mention all the options the touchscreen opens up.

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

When the Super Meat Boy dev tested the controller, the right trackpad was the jump button.

 

[The Lugz]

I'm glad you didn't finish reading my post where I had written I know there's haptic feedback

It's called Netiquette, and forum rules dictate that an entire post should not be copy/pasted so the Op can see exactly what you're commenting on and not take up the entire forum with a wall of text.

My Specific point was:
The hardware as presented is perfectly capable, and yes you're quite correct developers will have many and varying levels of use and acceptance of the technology some will doubtless ignore it entirely but that is not an intrinsic flaw of the technology itself it's lazy programming.

gimmicks are a different kettle of fish, 3d is a gimmick, because it's appeal soon fails when you move your head or gives people headaches or becomes overused, and the fourth wall is broken, rendering the feeling of immersion moot. whereas something that gives you tactile response to your actions gives you many benefits including: improved timing, feeling the 'drop spot' of a physical key allows you to split second time a key press with muscle memory, you could easily program that in to this device and it is not lacking in that regard, in fact quite the opposite.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I do not mind the lack of sticks its the button placements that are silly as most 3d games the left thumb is rarely off the stick and for this you have 2 or 3 main buttons right by it, if they were extra buttons it would not be a problem..

They are extra buttons. It's the right trackpad that'll take the place of a standard controller's A, B, X, and Y buttons, as clicking the top of the pad will function like pressing Y, clicking the bottom will be A, and so on. What the Steam controller calls "ABXY" are really more like its equivalents of Start and Back (I wouldn't be surprised if they were renamed 1, 2, 3, and 4 or something upon release to make it less confusing), useful primarily for mapping hotkeys to.

Assuming a standard controller setup where the left sensorthingy controls movement, this controller seems to have only two buttons accessible (outside two possible buttons) without taking your hands off your movement pad. That... doesn't seem like a good idea to me, the controller already has too few buttons compared to a keyboard.

Without moving your thumbs from the trackpads, you can use the four triggers with your index fingers, the back two buttons with any of your other fingers, and the clicking function on the trackpads with (of course) your thumbs, for a total of eight. And since, as described, each trackpad is really four clickable buttons instead of just one, the total is really more like eleven or even fourteen, depending on how you view it. Then removing your thumbs from the pads gives you eight more buttons to relegate less crucial functions to, not to mention all the options the touchscreen opens up.

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

When the Super Meat Boy dev tested the controller, the right trackpad was the jump button.

So? I am thinking beyond simplistic 2D and 3D I am thinking about AAA FPS and AAA action titles like Batman and fighting games.

Whats the point in making a controller that's limited to only some games even if it's the majority?

 

[lacktheknack]

I do not mind the lack of sticks its the button placements that are silly as most 3d games the left thumb is rarely off the stick and for this you have 2 or 3 main buttons right by it, if they were extra buttons it would not be a problem..

They are extra buttons. It's the right trackpad that'll take the place of a standard controller's A, B, X, and Y buttons, as clicking the top of the pad will function like pressing Y, clicking the bottom will be A, and so on. What the Steam controller calls "ABXY" are really more like its equivalents of Start and Back (I wouldn't be surprised if they were renamed 1, 2, 3, and 4 or something upon release to make it less confusing), useful primarily for mapping hotkeys to.

Assuming a standard controller setup where the left sensorthingy controls movement, this controller seems to have only two buttons accessible (outside two possible buttons) without taking your hands off your movement pad. That... doesn't seem like a good idea to me, the controller already has too few buttons compared to a keyboard.

Without moving your thumbs from the trackpads, you can use the four triggers with your index fingers, the back two buttons with any of your other fingers, and the clicking function on the trackpads with (of course) your thumbs, for a total of eight. And since, as described, each trackpad is really four clickable buttons instead of just one, the total is really more like eleven or even fourteen, depending on how you view it. Then removing your thumbs from the pads gives you eight more buttons to relegate less crucial functions to, not to mention all the options the touchscreen opens up.

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

When the Super Meat Boy dev tested the controller, the right trackpad was the jump button.

So? I am thinking beyond simplistic 2D and 3D I am thinking about AAA FPS and AAA action titles like Batman and fighting games.

Whats the point in making a controller that's limited to only some games even if it's the majority?

Ask the people who made every controller ever, despite RTSs not being playable on them.

That said, the trackpads are buttons. You said they weren't, but they are. They can be used as a full button, or divided into directional input.

 

[Vigormortis]

I do not mind the lack of sticks its the button placements that are silly as most 3d games the left thumb is rarely off the stick and for this you have 2 or 3 main buttons right by it, if they were extra buttons it would not be a problem..

Then again dose this thing have 3 trigger/bumber buttons? If it dose then it should work fine, hell it should work better than most if it has functional 2 bumbers and 4 triggers.

The thing that seems to be confusing many is the labeling of the four orbital buttons around the touchscreen.

Though they are labeled A, B, X, and Y, respectively, they are NOT meant to be used as the primary action keys.

Those functions are likely going to be relegated to the touchpad clicks, the four trigger/shoulder buttons, and the two underslung buttons underneath the controller.

The rest: the four orbital buttons, the three lower face buttons, and the touchscreen are more likely to be used for secondary or system functions. I.E. inventory selection, start/back buttons, etc, etc.

Try to keep in mind this thing has sixteen buttons. Eight that can be pressed without ever removing your thumbs from the trackpads.

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

No, that's just demonstrably wrong.

The trackpads can be programmed to register presses in different zones. Essentially allowing it to function as a series of extra buttons.

Likewise, as part of a suggestion made by the dev behind Super Meat Boy, Valve plans to add small dimples to the trackpad surfaces so it feels more natural when the pad is used as separate buttons.

Don't just assume the trackpads are used only for one thing. That's like assuming the A button on an Xbox controller is only ever used for jump; no matter the game.

 

[Vigormortis]

Assuming a standard controller setup where the left sensorthingy controls movement, this controller seems to have only two buttons accessible (outside two possible buttons) without taking your hands off your movement pad. That... doesn't seem like a good idea to me, the controller already has too few buttons compared to a keyboard.

I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated until people understand this, but eight of the sixteen buttons on the controller are able to be pressed without removing your thumbs from the trackpads.

Four trigger/shoulder buttons, two clickable trackpads, and the two underslung buttons on the back of the controller.

And, this isn't even counting the possibility of coding one of the trackpads to function as a series of extra buttons.

Also, with the touchscreen, one can theoretically have a near limitless number of extra buttons.

 

[Vigormortis]

I'm glad you didn't finish reading my post where I had written I know there's haptic feedback, but I'll explain this anyway; the ability to 'let the programmer make you feel what he wants you to feel" is a interesting idea idea, the problem is this never works, it's a gimmick that few games take advantage of then it's just thrown in at the last minute because the console creators 'would prefer' you use it. Look at; the Wii's entire library or the six-axis, PSV's rear touch panel 3D. It's a forced feature that typically hurts gameplay. To top it off many devs rarely let you even change controls the most basic and easy thing they could implement and you think they're going to take the time to add in these features for a controller that won't be the majority on steam or steam box?

This is how it'll likely go, a few games in the first year will use it and likely be impressive in their own right, then they will default the haptic to emulating the current controllers in some way. Because that's what everyone has keyboard and mouse and a controller and this isn't likely to be a standard because everyone who has a PC has their preferred control method, those who do get this aren't going to be close to the majority so that will likely end that.

Again: it's a very interesting idea that fits little into games currently and I can't see it wedging it's way into the normal game pad world.

So you're saying haptic feedback is a "gimmick" that will almost never be used by developers?

You know that rumble motors are a form of haptic feedback as well, right? Generation 1 and 2, in fact. And unless someone's been sticking solely to games from the early 90's, rumble has been a common inclusion in almost every console game released within the last decade or so. So, if nothing else, the gen3 or gen4 haptic feedback tech Valve's put into this controller can simply function as more efficient rumble motors. Assuming the dev is too lazy or disinterested in trying anything more with them, that is.

So...I don't see where you're going with your assumption...

 

[Vigormortis]

I can honestly say I've never seen more petty and ill-informed complaints over a single gaming product release in my life.

So, if nothing else, thank you Valve for showing us all the true nature of the internet and gaming communities.

 

[Sight Unseen]

There's no dpad and there's no physical feedback, granted my example below is old but it's the same issue tablets/phones have with games today. No physical sensation of buttons clicking/pressing or stick angles and you're making it very challenging to play

^

the controller has haptic feedback, you feel whatever the programmer wants you to feel. so for example you want to play a game where you pop bubble-wrap? you guessed it 'pop' 'pop' under your finger. emulating a button push would be impossible but communicating to the player they've pushed the button is easy it's basically like touching a speaker, so yes there can be feedback, you could even be a smart-ass and program several levels of feedback and one for 'the limit' of activation, similar to mechanical keyboard keys

I applaud valve for trying something new, frankly these technologies will never be accepted until someone puts them out there, hell the first 'standard' 16 button controller raised a few eyebrows from the crowds of arcade game button-mashers so only time will tell, I personally think it will work solidly as a controller, but the average gamer just wont want it on principal because they've used dual sticks for half their lives.

I'm glad you didn't finish reading my post where I had written I know there's haptic feedback, but I'll explain this anyway; the ability to 'let the programmer make you feel what he wants you to feel" is a interesting idea idea, the problem is this never works, it's a gimmick that few games take advantage of then it's just thrown in at the last minute because the console creators 'would prefer' you use it. Look at; the Wii's entire library or the six-axis, PSV's rear touch panel 3D. It's a forced feature that typically hurts gameplay. To top it off many devs rarely let you even change controls the most basic and easy thing they could implement and you think they're going to take the time to add in these features for a controller that won't be the majority on steam or steam box?

This is how it'll likely go, a few games in the first year will use it and likely be impressive in their own right, then they will default the haptic to emulating the current controllers in some way. Because that's what everyone has keyboard and mouse and a controller and this isn't likely to be a standard because everyone who has a PC has their preferred control method, those who do get this aren't going to be close to the majority so that will likely end that.

Again: it's a very interesting idea that fits little into games currently and I can't see it wedging it's way into the normal game pad world.

You would have a point if the controller wasn't moddable and customizable. Valve is planning to let you share custom controller configurations (which I would assume includes custom haptic feedback because they said you could customize the hardware and software of the controller) through the steam workshop. So if a developer doesn't provide an adequate controller layout, you could just find a custom one made by a fan that works for you or better yet, make one yourself! Even if the game doesn't have native controller support, the controller has a "legacy mode" that tricks the PC into thinking it's a mouse and keyboard, whose keybindings are completely customizable. So I don't see this being as much of a problem as you seem to think it will be.

 

[lacktheknack]

I can honestly say I've never seen more petty and ill-informed complaints over a single gaming product release in my life.

So, if nothing else, thank you Valve for showing us all the true nature of the internet and gaming communities.

You didn't know it before?

I've known it for a while, it's just not as prevalent here, which is why I stick around here.

Yes, it's less prevalent here.

I'll let that stew for a bit.

 

[Vigormortis]

You didn't know it before?

I've known it for a while, it's just not as prevalent here, which is why I stick around here.

Yes, it's less prevalent here.

I'll let that stew for a bit.

Oh, I knew it. I just didn't think the willfully ignorant and intellectually dishonest existed in such numbers within the gaming community. Even by the standards set during, let's say, the Mass Effect 3 "controversy".

Much of the community reaction so far has been baffling, though not overly surprising.

I mean, some of the biggest complaints are STILL that it "doesn't have enough buttons" or that the key action buttons are "awkwardly placed around the touchscreen" or "it doesn't have thumbsticks/d-pads and is therefore useless".

Though...the fact that quite a few Xbox fans are still excited about Microsoft putting rumble motors in the triggers of their Xbone controller; with many fans even saying it's "revolutionary"[footnote]Seriously? Fucking rumble motors in the triggers is a next-gen innovation? Really?[/footnote]; has me both laughing and crying.

But yes, a quick glance at many other sites (say, IGN) proves that those types are in drastically fewer numbers here. And those that do show up are, thankfully, often removed quickly.

 

[Snotnarok]

I'm glad you didn't finish reading my post where I had written I know there's haptic feedback, but I'll explain this anyway; the ability to 'let the programmer make you feel what he wants you to feel" is a interesting idea idea, the problem is this never works, it's a gimmick that few games take advantage of then it's just thrown in at the last minute because the console creators 'would prefer' you use it. Look at; the Wii's entire library or the six-axis, PSV's rear touch panel 3D. It's a forced feature that typically hurts gameplay. To top it off many devs rarely let you even change controls the most basic and easy thing they could implement and you think they're going to take the time to add in these features for a controller that won't be the majority on steam or steam box?

This is how it'll likely go, a few games in the first year will use it and likely be impressive in their own right, then they will default the haptic to emulating the current controllers in some way. Because that's what everyone has keyboard and mouse and a controller and this isn't likely to be a standard because everyone who has a PC has their preferred control method, those who do get this aren't going to be close to the majority so that will likely end that.

Again: it's a very interesting idea that fits little into games currently and I can't see it wedging it's way into the normal game pad world.

So you're saying haptic feedback is a "gimmick" that will almost never be used by developers?

You know that rumble motors are a form of haptic feedback as well, right? Generation 1 and 2, in fact. And unless someone's been sticking solely to games from the early 90's, rumble has been a common inclusion in almost every console game released within the last decade or so. So, if nothing else, the gen3 or gen4 haptic feedback tech Valve's put into this controller can simply function as more efficient rumble motors. Assuming the dev is too lazy or disinterested in trying anything more with them, that is.

So...I don't see where you're going with your assumption...

Rumble isn't a function that dictates a whole new way to control something nor is it a thing where you'd buy a whole new controller for it, for the haptic function to work to it's full advantage it has to be programmed in but I don't think many devs are going to do that. The controller probably has a default way to interact with games that don't support its functions directly but the assumption is I don't think it'll work as well as a regular controller when trying to emulate it.
Rumble came with controllers shipped with the system and ways by no means a way of changing the way you play games, it just happened to be in those things.
It's like the kinnect, a new means to control games but requires a new accessory when everyone already has a means of controlling: Keyboard and mouse, a ton of controllers.

 

[Snotnarok]

There's no dpad and there's no physical feedback, granted my example below is old but it's the same issue tablets/phones have with games today. No physical sensation of buttons clicking/pressing or stick angles and you're making it very challenging to play

^

the controller has haptic feedback, you feel whatever the programmer wants you to feel. so for example you want to play a game where you pop bubble-wrap? you guessed it 'pop' 'pop' under your finger. emulating a button push would be impossible but communicating to the player they've pushed the button is easy it's basically like touching a speaker, so yes there can be feedback, you could even be a smart-ass and program several levels of feedback and one for 'the limit' of activation, similar to mechanical keyboard keys

I applaud valve for trying something new, frankly these technologies will never be accepted until someone puts them out there, hell the first 'standard' 16 button controller raised a few eyebrows from the crowds of arcade game button-mashers so only time will tell, I personally think it will work solidly as a controller, but the average gamer just wont want it on principal because they've used dual sticks for half their lives.

I'm glad you didn't finish reading my post where I had written I know there's haptic feedback, but I'll explain this anyway; the ability to 'let the programmer make you feel what he wants you to feel" is a interesting idea idea, the problem is this never works, it's a gimmick that few games take advantage of then it's just thrown in at the last minute because the console creators 'would prefer' you use it. Look at; the Wii's entire library or the six-axis, PSV's rear touch panel 3D. It's a forced feature that typically hurts gameplay. To top it off many devs rarely let you even change controls the most basic and easy thing they could implement and you think they're going to take the time to add in these features for a controller that won't be the majority on steam or steam box?

This is how it'll likely go, a few games in the first year will use it and likely be impressive in their own right, then they will default the haptic to emulating the current controllers in some way. Because that's what everyone has keyboard and mouse and a controller and this isn't likely to be a standard because everyone who has a PC has their preferred control method, those who do get this aren't going to be close to the majority so that will likely end that.

Again: it's a very interesting idea that fits little into games currently and I can't see it wedging it's way into the normal game pad world.

You would have a point if the controller wasn't moddable and customizable. Valve is planning to let you share custom controller configurations (which I would assume includes custom haptic feedback because they said you could customize the hardware and software of the controller) through the steam workshop. So if a developer doesn't provide an adequate controller layout, you could just find a custom one made by a fan that works for you or better yet, make one yourself! Even if the game doesn't have native controller support, the controller has a "legacy mode" that tricks the PC into thinking it's a mouse and keyboard, whose keybindings are completely customizable. So I don't see this being as much of a problem as you seem to think it will be.

Many things are moddable and customizable on PC, you can get a Genesis/atari/snes controller working fairly easily but many people default to a 360 or PS2 controller via adapter.

Okay it's customizable but I'm skeptical of it, are you saying you're sure that this tech can not only emulate other controllers but do it as good? That's the idea behind this right? If that's what it does, then why would many people get this? Many have controllers they like and I don't see how something emulating other ways to control will surpass them to make the purchase worth it.
I'm NOT saying it's bad it's just I don't see the application for it. Relying on people to hack and make things work for games doesn't impress because it will just to allow compatibility not really take advantage of this thing that emulates the feel of doing other things so I don't see the point again.

 

[Sight Unseen]

There's no dpad and there's no physical feedback, granted my example below is old but it's the same issue tablets/phones have with games today. No physical sensation of buttons clicking/pressing or stick angles and you're making it very challenging to play

^

the controller has haptic feedback, you feel whatever the programmer wants you to feel. so for example you want to play a game where you pop bubble-wrap? you guessed it 'pop' 'pop' under your finger. emulating a button push would be impossible but communicating to the player they've pushed the button is easy it's basically like touching a speaker, so yes there can be feedback, you could even be a smart-ass and program several levels of feedback and one for 'the limit' of activation, similar to mechanical keyboard keys

I applaud valve for trying something new, frankly these technologies will never be accepted until someone puts them out there, hell the first 'standard' 16 button controller raised a few eyebrows from the crowds of arcade game button-mashers so only time will tell, I personally think it will work solidly as a controller, but the average gamer just wont want it on principal because they've used dual sticks for half their lives.

I'm glad you didn't finish reading my post where I had written I know there's haptic feedback, but I'll explain this anyway; the ability to 'let the programmer make you feel what he wants you to feel" is a interesting idea idea, the problem is this never works, it's a gimmick that few games take advantage of then it's just thrown in at the last minute because the console creators 'would prefer' you use it. Look at; the Wii's entire library or the six-axis, PSV's rear touch panel 3D. It's a forced feature that typically hurts gameplay. To top it off many devs rarely let you even change controls the most basic and easy thing they could implement and you think they're going to take the time to add in these features for a controller that won't be the majority on steam or steam box?

This is how it'll likely go, a few games in the first year will use it and likely be impressive in their own right, then they will default the haptic to emulating the current controllers in some way. Because that's what everyone has keyboard and mouse and a controller and this isn't likely to be a standard because everyone who has a PC has their preferred control method, those who do get this aren't going to be close to the majority so that will likely end that.

Again: it's a very interesting idea that fits little into games currently and I can't see it wedging it's way into the normal game pad world.

You would have a point if the controller wasn't moddable and customizable. Valve is planning to let you share custom controller configurations (which I would assume includes custom haptic feedback because they said you could customize the hardware and software of the controller) through the steam workshop. So if a developer doesn't provide an adequate controller layout, you could just find a custom one made by a fan that works for you or better yet, make one yourself! Even if the game doesn't have native controller support, the controller has a "legacy mode" that tricks the PC into thinking it's a mouse and keyboard, whose keybindings are completely customizable. So I don't see this being as much of a problem as you seem to think it will be.

Many things are moddable and customizable on PC, you can get a Genesis/atari/snes controller working fairly easily but many people default to a 360 or PS2 controller via adapter.

Okay it's customizable but I'm skeptical of it, are you saying you're sure that this tech can not only emulate other controllers but do it as good? That's the idea behind this right? If that's what it does, then why would many people get this? Many have controllers they like and I don't see how something emulating other ways to control will surpass them to make the purchase worth it.
I'm NOT saying it's bad it's just I don't see the application for it. Relying on people to hack and make things work for games doesn't impress because it will just to allow compatibility not really take advantage of this thing that emulates the feel of doing other things so I don't see the point again.

For your first point, modding and customizing will be easier and more publicly available due to Valve releasing the devkit and information about the console, as well as allowing an easy system to share, rate, and download controller mappings with the Steam Workshop which IMO is a fantastic system. No other controller has this level of ease of adaptation and sharing. None.

As for your second point which I feel wasn't really addressing my post, but whatever, I'm not completely sold on this new controller being the next greatest thing since sliced bread. I am however extremely optimistic for it and very eager to buy one and try it out myself. They aren't just trying to emulate controllers they are trying to improve upon them and allow them to do things which most controllers either can't do at all (RTS, grand strategy games, mouse movement, etc) or which do more poorly when compared to a mouse and keyboard (ie. FPS, some RPG's, etc)

You have to keep in mind that Valve is trying to make the PC (or their console(s)) more viable and enticing for people who want living room entertainment systems. Their entire goal is to make PC quality gaming more accessible, affordable, and living room friendly. And let's be honest here, a mouse and keyboard, while a great input system and I use it for most of my games nowadays, is not as accessible or as living room friendly as a controller is, and it also has limitations of its own (not having pressure sensitive movement speeds like an analog stick does for instance) So Valve is trying to make a new controller that takes the strengths of the controller (comfort, living-room compatible, analog movement, accessibility) and the strengths of the mouse and keyboard (customizable key bindings, more accurate mouse inputs, more buttons, less latency) and combine them into one package without any (or most anyway) of the drawbacks of either input system.

Whether it'll work as intended is anyone's guess, although knowing Valve they'd never let this see the light of day if it wasn't super polished and worked as intended. Whether it'll cause a revolution in the gaming input world, create a small but dedicated niche following, or flop completely is still to be seen. However I'm pretty optimistic and I cannot freaking wait to try one!

 

[GodzillaGuy92]

Nope, the right track pad is for looking its not for buttons.

...Um, no. It's for both. Like I explained, you drag your thumb across it to look around, and you click different sections of it to use as different buttons. You can read this hands-on account [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TommyRefenes/20130928/201219/My_time_with_the_Steam_Controller.php] for further detail, but I'll leave the relevant quote below:

But that's Meat Boy, I wanted to see how it would do with a game where multiple inputs were required. Naturally, I requested Spelunky. Spelunky requires Whip, Jump, Bomb, and Rope buttons. We configured the controller to play like an Xbox controller. So the left circle pad was once again used for the directional buttons, and the right circle pad was used as A, B, X, Y buttons in the orientation that you find on an Xbox Controller. I played through Spelunky and the controller worked great.

 

[Grottnikk]

I just hope that developers of FPS and other games that traditionally use the mouse & keyboard set-up don't start thinking, "oh well everyone uses a controller now, even on the Steam Box. Let's not support the mouse and keyboard anymore", and we end up with even sloppier ports of games with no M&K support.

 

[Snotnarok]

There's no dpad and there's no physical feedback, granted my example below is old but it's the same issue tablets/phones have with games today. No physical sensation of buttons clicking/pressing or stick angles and you're making it very challenging to play

^

the controller has haptic feedback, you feel whatever the programmer wants you to feel. so for example you want to play a game where you pop bubble-wrap? you guessed it 'pop' 'pop' under your finger. emulating a button push would be impossible but communicating to the player they've pushed the button is easy it's basically like touching a speaker, so yes there can be feedback, you could even be a smart-ass and program several levels of feedback and one for 'the limit' of activation, similar to mechanical keyboard keys

I applaud valve for trying something new, frankly these technologies will never be accepted until someone puts them out there, hell the first 'standard' 16 button controller raised a few eyebrows from the crowds of arcade game button-mashers so only time will tell, I personally think it will work solidly as a controller, but the average gamer just wont want it on principal because they've used dual sticks for half their lives.

I'm glad you didn't finish reading my post where I had written I know there's haptic feedback, but I'll explain this anyway; the ability to 'let the programmer make you feel what he wants you to feel" is a interesting idea idea, the problem is this never works, it's a gimmick that few games take advantage of then it's just thrown in at the last minute because the console creators 'would prefer' you use it. Look at; the Wii's entire library or the six-axis, PSV's rear touch panel 3D. It's a forced feature that typically hurts gameplay. To top it off many devs rarely let you even change controls the most basic and easy thing they could implement and you think they're going to take the time to add in these features for a controller that won't be the majority on steam or steam box?

This is how it'll likely go, a few games in the first year will use it and likely be impressive in their own right, then they will default the haptic to emulating the current controllers in some way. Because that's what everyone has keyboard and mouse and a controller and this isn't likely to be a standard because everyone who has a PC has their preferred control method, those who do get this aren't going to be close to the majority so that will likely end that.

Again: it's a very interesting idea that fits little into games currently and I can't see it wedging it's way into the normal game pad world.

You would have a point if the controller wasn't moddable and customizable. Valve is planning to let you share custom controller configurations (which I would assume includes custom haptic feedback because they said you could customize the hardware and software of the controller) through the steam workshop. So if a developer doesn't provide an adequate controller layout, you could just find a custom one made by a fan that works for you or better yet, make one yourself! Even if the game doesn't have native controller support, the controller has a "legacy mode" that tricks the PC into thinking it's a mouse and keyboard, whose keybindings are completely customizable. So I don't see this being as much of a problem as you seem to think it will be.

Many things are moddable and customizable on PC, you can get a Genesis/atari/snes controller working fairly easily but many people default to a 360 or PS2 controller via adapter.

Okay it's customizable but I'm skeptical of it, are you saying you're sure that this tech can not only emulate other controllers but do it as good? That's the idea behind this right? If that's what it does, then why would many people get this? Many have controllers they like and I don't see how something emulating other ways to control will surpass them to make the purchase worth it.
I'm NOT saying it's bad it's just I don't see the application for it. Relying on people to hack and make things work for games doesn't impress because it will just to allow compatibility not really take advantage of this thing that emulates the feel of doing other things so I don't see the point again.

For your first point, modding and customizing will be easier and more publicly available due to Valve releasing the devkit and information about the console, as well as allowing an easy system to share, rate, and download controller mappings with the Steam Workshop which IMO is a fantastic system. No other controller has this level of ease of adaptation and sharing. None.

As for your second point which I feel wasn't really addressing my post, but whatever, I'm not completely sold on this new controller being the next greatest thing since sliced bread. I am however extremely optimistic for it and very eager to buy one and try it out myself. They aren't just trying to emulate controllers they are trying to improve upon them and allow them to do things which most controllers either can't do at all (RTS, grand strategy games, mouse movement, etc) or which do more poorly when compared to a mouse and keyboard (ie. FPS, some RPG's, etc)

You have to keep in mind that Valve is trying to make the PC (or their console(s)) more viable and enticing for people who want living room entertainment systems. Their entire goal is to make PC quality gaming more accessible, affordable, and living room friendly. And let's be honest here, a mouse and keyboard, while a great input system and I use it for most of my games nowadays, is not as accessible or as living room friendly as a controller is, and it also has limitations of its own (not having pressure sensitive movement speeds like an analog stick does for instance) So Valve is trying to make a new controller that takes the strengths of the controller (comfort, living-room compatible, analog movement, accessibility) and the strengths of the mouse and keyboard (customizable key bindings, more accurate mouse inputs, more buttons, less latency) and combine them into one package without any (or most anyway) of the drawbacks of either input system.

Whether it'll work as intended is anyone's guess, although knowing Valve they'd never let this see the light of day if it wasn't super polished and worked as intended. Whether it'll cause a revolution in the gaming input world, create a small but dedicated niche following, or flop completely is still to be seen. However I'm pretty optimistic and I cannot freaking wait to try one!

I'm not saying it'll be hard to customize it, with or without valves support, but think about this in the layman's way...probably not the most correct use of that but I'm rolling with it. Most people even savvy players on console think PC's are complex and even the people who do have PCs don't look. That is not the fault of valve in anyway but the issue stands that many probably won't want to, or don't know how to put the effort in so it sucks the life out of the prospect. This isn't me saying it's gonna fail, just that I'm saying it's a thing. Many forget to think of the more simple person.

I'm eager to test it as well, but I'm not a valve fanatic, I do love their service but I'm not the kind of person who relies on company to determine quality or what not. I don't want this controller to be a pile of crap but I'm shakey oon it being anything worth it, I mean as I stated before most won't look into how to mod the controller now you expect others to try and get over the learning curve? Ehh I dunno.
Look it could be good, I'm not saying it isn't, I think it's flawed already in not having a dpad and I don't care what kind of amazing tech it has, a DPad is it's own thing, simple and straight forward and allows great control of 2D platformers, something I enjoy greately which means this controller has less use for me(Then again as someone who likes kboard and mouse for a majority of games I'm not the target)
For RTS could this be good? Maybe? I'm not a fan of RTS and I only mess around on the rare occasion. Lacking a keyboard that may be hard to overcome still, but you or I can't say either way for sure till we have one.

No I agree, they do really try things out a lot (See TF2 <= that game <3)
See I'll just note the difference between you and me in this regard you are hyped and optimistic, I am cynical and live y a motto of: hope for the best, expect the worst.
As a tech nerd I find it absolutely fascinating, as someone who likes games I'm put off, but I DO see what you mean but I just can't get hyped like you, it was however amusing to share thoughts and I hope you feel the same way.......and not take my skepticism as severe negativity! ...Stop looking at me like that. D:

 

[Vigormortis]

Rumble isn't a function that dictates a whole new way to control something nor is it a thing where you'd buy a whole new controller for it, for the haptic function to work to it's full advantage it has to be programmed in but I don't think many devs are going to do that. The controller probably has a default way to interact with games that don't support its functions directly but the assumption is I don't think it'll work as well as a regular controller when trying to emulate it.

I'm sorry, but that still sounds like a petty complaint as well as a double standard.

Are you under the impression that rumble just "happens" when you play a game?

It doesn't. The developer has to code in when, where, and how the rumble motors will respond to ingame events. They have to program how fast they spin and for how long.

As such, coding responses for the haptic gen3/gen4 devices in the Steam controller will be no different nor any more difficult.

Rumble came with controllers shipped with the system and ways by no means a way of changing the way you play games, it just happened to be in those things.

I'm sorry..but what?

Do you not recall the big deal made of rumble motors when they first started appearing in gaming controllers back in the N64/Dreamcast era?

Today it's a standard feature, but it's still something that's a core part of gameplay for many titles. The sensory feedback you get from it is tantamount.

If this new version in the SteamController is as advanced as their claiming, it's not hard to see it becoming the new standard. Even if it just becomes a slightly better, more efficient rumble.

Also, "came with the controllers"? Are you implying we'll have to buy a separate device to add the haptic feedback feature into our SteamControllers? I don't understand.

It's like the kinnect, a new means to control games but requires a new accessory when everyone already has a means of controlling: Keyboard and mouse, a ton of controllers.

No. It's not. The haptic feedback in the SteamController isn't a "new means to control the game". It's an addition to the core input device. It's there for sensory feedback. It doesn't control any of the actual player inputs any more than a basic rumble motor would.

Okay it's customizable but I'm skeptical of it, are you saying you're sure that this tech can not only emulate other controllers but do it as good? That's the idea behind this right? If that's what it does, then why would many people get this? Many have controllers they like and I don't see how something emulating other ways to control will surpass them to make the purchase worth it.

I'm NOT saying it's bad it's just I don't see the application for it. Relying on people to hack and make things work for games doesn't impress because it will just to allow compatibility not really take advantage of this thing that emulates the feel of doing other things so I don't see the point again.

Sigh...no. Valve isn't making the thing openly moddable because they expect the tech community to make it work for them. They've already coded the thing to work with every game already in Steam. Even older games or games that only use keyboard and mouse. (their legacy mode)

It's open to be modded so that anyone can hack the thing to use for whatever they want. Even applications outside of gaming or even PCs. (code it to control a robot if you want)

As for it's "application", it applicable anywhere someone might want a controller.

No one's implying the thing is meant to replace ALL controllers ever. It's simply another option.

I don't understand why there's so much resistance to this simple idea? Nor do I understand how you can make many of these criticisms without falling into a double-standard; considering many of your complaints are applicable to every other controller out there when compared to their peers.

 

[Snotnarok]

snip

Rumble is standard in all controllers now, it's not something that's in some, or requires a lot of effort, seriously think about it do you think rumble is on the same level of complexity as dual traction pads with haptic tech in it? You put it on impacts and adjust levels here and there, it's not something that needs to give the users thumbs tactile feelings to understand what's going on in what given situation and how much has to be applied in what part while maintaining what area does what.

Uh, yes that was an accessory and again something easily programmed for that came with certain games.

What I'm implying is rumble comes in controllers now, even cheap 3rd party controllers, this is something that needs to be coded for and is advanced.

Yes, it is like the kinnect in the way that both the user has to learn how to use it and devs have to learn how to program for it and continue doing so for a device that is optional for your system much like the kinnect is. It's not a wii remote that comes with it, no one has to buy this thing so it's exactly the same.



Coded it to work with every steam game? You know that's impossible, it's made with a default compatibility like any controller can do to a degree, they didn't and aren't about to sit there and make this controller function with every game. That's why there's community open modding on it so the community can take advantage of it. This is why you can't just use a PS2 controller with every game or some games don't work with the dpad but the analog stick, you need to move the buttons around or sometimes get a key to joy program, it's not going to easily work with every game on steam that is just nonsense, and because games currently have no programming for this device it won't be taken advantage of so that means all but valve games will really feel awesome with the controller, others will just work or need work to function with games properly.


No, it's not applicable to every controller because they adhere to a standard that has been established, 2 analog sticks 4 face buttons 2 option buttons 4 triggers a d-pad. This thing doesn't even have a dpad and is also relying on devs or the community to implement functionality for their controller.

Of course my criticisms are going to come off double sided, you nor I don't have it in hands so the only thing we can do is either be skeptical or hopeful. I am both, I think you're leaning way too in favor optimism.

Should we all just be optimistic and excited? No there's opposites to everything, I don't hate the thing, I find it very interesting however I'm skeptical that I'd like it or that it's going to be a competitor to other current controllers. You don't have to like my opinion or thoughts, but I'm strictly voicing them for discussion.

 

[Someone Depressing]

Tr playing Fallout 2 on a controller, why don't you.

Still, it seems interesting, and it'll probably work fine for most games.