Saelune said:
Most of this stuff I might as well copy/paste my last post.
I wanted to know
why, not
what.
Id directly link you to videos, but you don't seem to want to watch them anyways.
You can't say I don't seem to want to watch something
you never actually linked to me. I actually asked you to show me something. What point would there be in asking if I planned to not watch?
Here are the video links anyways, to cover my bases.
Good. Let's watch the videos....
Was this one supposed to support the claim that Valve is at fault? It doesn't seem to. He spends the majority of his video condemning the players who ran the gambling sites, not Valve. He offers
no evidence that Valve had any way to know those players owned those sites. So his criticism and indictment of the players is valid, but he offers no meaningful criticism of Valve.
This video doesn't provide the evidence I was looking for. Maybe one of the other ones will?
This one doesn't either. He spends the entire video ranting and damning the site owners who scammed people. He doesn't even really mention Valve.
Maybe Sterling will provide the evidence?
Jim Sterling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng_SbSdUkc8
Hmm, well, he offhandedly mentions that the whole thing further 'taints' Steam's image, but he doesn't really explain
why. He doesn't explain how Valve is at fault for the actions of the site owners (whom, by the way,
were being dealt with when it was discovered they were breaking the Steam terms of use). In fact, his only real complaint is on the nature of microtransactions themselves, not Valve's supposed 'involvement' with the gambling sites.
So, I'm still not seeing how Valve was either aware of the shady dealings and let them run free until they were caught, or that they were 'incompetent' for not knowing something no one else knew at the time. (this is a false dichotomy, by the way)
As for dismissiveness, you ended your last few posts literally with "good day" because you seem to know everything already.
No, I ended that post with "good day" because you refused, repeatedly, to answer my questions and instead decided to be dismissive and accuse me of things I never thought or said. The preemptive 'good day' was an indication that, if that was to be the direction the conversation was to go in, I was no longer interested in continuing.
Dismissive? No. Frustrated? Yes.
Neither is insulting someone while dodging their questions.
You can dislike me, my opinions, or even arguing with me, but you don't have to be an ass.
You might want to change your wordage here. This sort of thing is likely to net you mod wrath.
I don't dislike you. I barely know you. Can't really dislike someone I barely know. And I don't 'dislike' your opinions. I'm not even saying you can't hold your opinions. This entire time I've only been asking you to provide evidence for the claim that Valve is at fault for the whole fiasco.
Dota 2 is infact their latest game. I could have swore Dota 2 was older than CS:GO though. Guess I was wrong on that part atleast.
No biggie. Easy mistake to make, since the two came out within close proximity to each other. I've made much bigger gaffes.
As for Valve doing a bad job. Well, on the game developer side, they well...don't seem to do that anymore.
True. Well, except for their release of
The Lab just a few months ago, and the constant content updates to Dota 2, CS:GO, TF2. Not to mention their extensive work in the VR space and the updating and expansion of Steam, its infrastructure, and its feature sets.
But sure. The entirety of Valve's workforce just sits around all day coding nothing. We'll go with that.
Hell, I thought CS:GO was a much more recent game, perhaps 2014 maybe, but nope, 2012, so the fact Dota 2 is their most recent game at 2013, with no clear signs of making anything else that considering them a game developer seems hard to do.
Would you consider id a game developer? Would you consider Bioware a game developer? Did you know they go years and years in between game releases? Does that mean they aren't game developers either?
I have never understood the notion that just because Valve isn't churning out
Half-Life games every fucking year that they are "no longer a developer".
The only game Re-Logic has ever produced is
Terraria. Are they no longer a developer either?
Ofcourse they could be hard at work at something,
They are. And I don't say that as an assumption. Alan Yates, during a Q&A session on Reddit, recently revealed that close to a third of the company is currently hard at work on VR projects, with at least a quarter working on Dota 2, CS:GO, and TF2. This leaves the rest working on some undisclosed project(s). Or nothing at all. Who knows?
but they are being way to secretive about it if they are.
Not entirely. See above. But still, secrecy is what Valve does with their projects. After what happened with
Half-Life and
Half-Life 2 I can hardly blame them.
I will give them the hardware side of things though, but its early still and we will see.
Agreed, in that it is still early. My hope is that the momentum VR is gaining (and it is gaining momentum) continues over the next year or so. This will help bring down the cost of entry for VR, allowing a much larger audience to participate. So far AMD and nVidia are helping things along, as are other devs like DICE, Epic, id, etc. But the biggest hurdle left is gaining a large enough market presence.
Like you say. Time will tell.
As for Steam, there is a SEVERE lack of quality control. So much shovelware garbage on Steam, and shitty publishers who literally just publish garbage game after garbage game run free. I would hope they would have more dignity and pride in Steam to not let just anyone poop in their yard.
I keep hearing about this supposed deluge of garbage hitting Steam, but whenever I peruse the Store, I actually have to go
looking for this 'abundance of shovelware'. Most of the time, I have to resort to going onto Greenlight to find it.
I mean, I literally just popped over to my Storefront in the Steam client. I saw...maybe one game that I might consider "shovelware", but that has more to do with it being the sort of game I have no interest in, rather than it actually be fraudulent trash.
Are there shit games on Steam? Sure, absolutely. Are there games with questionable circumstances, developers, and publishers? Sadly, yes. There are. And they need to be dealt with. But just because you or I may not like a particular game does
NOT mean others won't either. I would consider the
FNaF games to be shovelware, but they are immensely popular.
Even so, what does this have to do with the gambling thing?
And there is a difference between someone stealing your car, and someone running a gambling racket in your basement. If people were doing that in my basement, Id have to be pretty dense not to know it. That is certainly a more equivalent metaphor.
A better example would be someone stealing your wifi to run their own pirating server. Your only clue, which you may not even notice, would be that your bandwidth was slower than normal. Would you still be at fault for that, even if you took every precaution you could to secure your network?
As for proof, I use Steam. I know that likely wont satisfy you, and you'd prefer I link some news reports or something, but I say this as someone who uses Steam, who sees the ways it lacks and the garbage that drowns the store page all too often. And as someone who uses GoG who sees what quality control is.
I could bring up the "just because you don't like a game..." argument again, but I'm still wondering what this point has to do with the gambling fiasco. They aren't even tangentially linked, so I'm curious why you've brought it up.
EDIT: http://store.steampowered.com/app/495300/ Even as someone who has a very negative opinion on him, I really don't need this on something like Steam. I didn't even look for this, but it was there on my store page. Steam shouldn't become a cesspit like those free internet game sites.
And how long was it on your front page? Did it displace the majority of titles also listed on the Storefront? How many people have even purchased the game? How many are even playing it? Is it even popular? What impact has it had on the Steam Store overall?
As you can see by the Store page, it has 'mixed' reviews. This indicates that some people like it and others don't. You're clearly in the latter, as I would be, but who are we to decide that no one else should have access to the game? Who are we to decide what people should and shouldn't enjoy?
A game you're not interested in showed up on your Store page. It was probably there for a day, if that long. I'm sorry for your plight. I too know how it feels to be shown products I have no interest in buying. Do you have any idea how much I
hate that Amazon.com displays things I don't want to buy? What an absolute failure of an online retailer. How dare they not filter out all of the products I'm not interested in?
You'll have to pardon the sarcasm but the whole thing just screams of double standards. And I'm not accusing you, specifically, but rather the mentality. That Steam/Valve is somehow egregiously broken and lacks any standard of quality, even though we fail to criticize
nearly every other major retailer, online or off, for the same 'problem'. I don't hear people calling out Netflix for having bad movies along side the good ones.
But that's a topic for a different thread. This one is on the gambling, and on that I understand your stance, but I still don't see evidence to support the claim that Valve is at fault, specifically.
As much as I dislike the phrase, we'll just have to 'agree to disagree'.
With that settled, I offer cookies as a peace offering.
Let's be friends? I don't like to fight. I'm a lover, not a fighter.
I'll even throw in a glass of chocolate milk. How 'bout it?
