Vault101's guide to gender debates

[Trunkage]

Pinkamenas guide to internet gender debates: Stay the fuck out of them. 100% success rate.

Doesn't this now mean success denied for you?

 

[carnex]

Predominant aggressor policies
Domestic violence/abuse lies used to propagate Domestic Abuse shelter BS gender policies
Dear Colleague Letter

there are three, but i don-t want for people to get lazy, there are plenty more out there if you are willing to look.

I will tell you what's disheartening.
Telling same things and giving same proofs to same people over and over and over.

 

[Vault101]

Predominant aggressor policies
Domestic violence/abuse lies used to propagate Domestic Abuse shelter BS gender policies
Dear Colleague Letter

there are three, but i don-t want for people to get lazy, there are plenty more out there if you are willing to look.

I will tell you what's disheartening.
Telling same things and giving same proofs to same people over and over and over.

did you conveniently forget to how to quote? or maybe that was just an extra afterthought, I take it those are incidences where "feminism" has been bad?

 

[carnex]

feminism stands for equality between men and woman

I just can't resist this one since it's so bloody relevant to prove how irrelevant definitions are

NSDAP stood for right of German people to stand equal to other European nations. Right out of their chapter.

 

[carnex]

did you conveniently forget to how to quote? or maybe that was just an extra afterthought, I take it those are incidences where "feminism" has been bad?

Since feminist managed to establish themselves as power player in world of politics they have done more bad than good. And predominantly good for females and bad for males although quite a bit of bad overflew onto women. Look up Erin Pizzey, woman who started domestic abuse shelters and her experience with feminists as well as results of her investigations of how domestic abuse shelters operate now.

 

[Vault101]

I just can't resist this one since it's so bloody relevant to prove how irrelevant definitions are

NSDAP stood for right of German people to stand equal to other European nations. Right out of their chapter.

[sub/]oohhhh lord[/sub]


I don't know much about the Nazi party's polices but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, I don't think Germany as a whole was more "oppressed" than other nations or that the Nazi party specifically marketed themselves as "we deserve the same rights as other nations" I would have thought it was more "Germany is awesome and here are our social and economic polices!"

or more to the point false equivalency

 

[Vault101]

Since feminist managed to establish themselves as power player in world of politics they have done more bad than good. And predominantly good for females and bad for males although quite a bit of bad overflew onto women. Look up Erin Pizzey, woman who started domestic abuse shelters and her experience with feminists as well as results of her investigations of how domestic abuse shelters operate now.

[sub/]ohh lordy indeed[/sub]

ok this is getting political, so I'm just gonna say as far as Feminism goes I don't particularly agree with that assessment (or the assessment of who holds how much power)

the "Feminism" thing in the context of this discussion is basically not to throw that term around and use it as a label to "other" and put viewpoints in neat boxes

I haven't called anyone else MRA's because I feel whatever MRA may or may not mean is irrelevant

 

[Vault101]

Is that the plural of men?

I belive she'd refering to the Menstrual cycle

as in THE BLOODY MARK OF THE SHE WOLF FULL MOON

erm....I mean what the reproductive cycle does...

 

[carnex]

I just can't resist this one since it's so bloody relevant to prove how irrelevant definitions are

NSDAP stood for right of German people to stand equal to other European nations. Right out of their chapter.

[sub/]oohhhh lord[/sub]


I don't know much about the Nazi party's polices but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, I don't think Germany as a whole was more "oppressed" than other nations or that the Nazi party specifically marketed themselves as "we deserve the same rights as other nations" I would have thought it was more "Germany is awesome and here are our social and economic polices!"

or more to the point false equivalency

Did you read my first sentence. I said "I'm making a point to show how definitions can be irrelevant". Perhaps i should have stated "compared to real world events"

It is not false equivalence when in both cases definition of organization and it's actions are quite frankly opposed to each other.

 

[CymbaIine]

Predominant aggressor policies
Domestic violence/abuse lies used to propagate Domestic Abuse shelter BS gender policies
Dear Colleague Letter

there are three, but i don-t want for people to get lazy, there are plenty more out there if you are willing to look.

I will tell you what's disheartening.
Telling same things and giving same proofs to same people over and over and over.

You're right, those three things that I have never heard of that are happening in a country I have never been to completely outweigh my right to vote and choose when I have a baby.

 

[giles]

Well, that certainly was... rambling.

Sometimes I look at these threads and see if they either fall under "Well I didn't read anything but here's my side of the debate I made a topic so it stands out" or "Here's why my opinion is superior to one or both sides of the debate".

Yours is the first I replied to because I don't even know what you're on about. Something about Eminem and Mass Effect 3?

captcha: learn. challenge. improve.
Err..wat?

 

[Vault101]

But what if there's two of them? Menses that is. Oh. Now I'm thinking about gollum. Doing a period.

that would make her the dreaded double vagina-hydra

she can only be conquered by a strong man with piercing blue eyes and rippling muscles

It is not false equivalence when in both cases definition of organization and it's actions are quite frankly opposed to each other.

this is a point of contention I don't believe I have the patience or disposition to dive into

You're right, those three things that I have never heard of that are happening in a country I have never been to completely outweigh my right to vote and choose when I have a baby.

hmmm...do you suppose this could count as a "what about the menz?"

 

[carnex]

Predominant aggressor policies
Domestic violence/abuse lies used to propagate Domestic Abuse shelter BS gender policies
Dear Colleague Letter

there are three, but i don-t want for people to get lazy, there are plenty more out there if you are willing to look.

I will tell you what's disheartening.
Telling same things and giving same proofs to same people over and over and over.

You're right, those three things that I have never heard of that are happening in a country I have never been to completely outweigh my right to vote and choose when I have a baby.

That is nothing but attempt at deflection. Actually I have at least a dozen jokes on that topic in my head begging to leap out but in interest of civil discussion i will sum it up like this.

You need better argument. Feminists did a fair job at promoting contraceptive pills. And I'm going to lay it at rest there simply not to open another can of worms that is under there.

But it says nothing about their actions that I have major problems with that started in late eighties and keeps happening.

Since feminist managed to establish themselves as power player in world of politics they have done more bad than good. And predominantly good for females and bad for males although quite a bit of bad overflew onto women. Look up Erin Pizzey, woman who started domestic abuse shelters and her experience with feminists as well as results of her investigations of how domestic abuse shelters operate now.

[sub/]ohh lordy indeed[/sub]

ok this is getting political, so I'm just gonna say as far as Feminism goes I don't particularly agree with that assessment (or the assessment of who holds how much power)

the "Feminism" thing in the context of this discussion is basically not to throw that term around and use it as a label to "other" and put viewpoints in neat boxes

I haven't called anyone else MRA's because I feel whatever MRA may or may not mean is irrelevant

This is exactly why I try to address actions of feminists as a group as actions of "feminist movement" because I know plenty of people who self identify as feminists and are not supportive of those actions or can absorb data presented and actually see where their movement misrepresent things.

I could do the same for people who self identify as MRA, and I do but there are no MRA people here as far as I know. Also MRA movement doesn't yet have political power so they are benign even if quite a few of them are seven shades of crazy.

 

[CymbaIine]

hmmm...do you suppose this could count as a "what about the menz?"

I don't actually know what that means but I hope not.

 

[Jesterscup]

That is nothing but attempt at deflection. Actually I have at least a dozen jokes on that topic in my head begging to leap out but in interest of civil discussion i will sum it up like this.

You need better argument. Feminists did a fair job at promoting contraceptive pills. And I'm going to lay it at rest there simply not to open another can of worms that is under there.

But it says nothing about their actions that I have major problems with that started in late eighties and keeps happening.

So yeah, there is clearly an issue here and ( parts of ) the feminist movement are not doing themselves any favours. But thats often the case with these sorts of things, and does not mean that we can ignore the whole issue ( range of issues ) because some people are going to far, or hold discriminatory viewpoints themselves.

So ok lets try to move away from using the terms 'feminist' and 'feminist movement/agenda' when talking about sexual equality/discrimination and gender politics, partly because there is a much wider discussion that should be going on thats ignored.

Simply put, I get what your saying, but it's a tricky tight-rope to walk, fall off either side and the wolves will get you. you've got issues with "the movement" ( so do I in fact, but I'm not going there ) but y'know baby & bath-water and all that jazz.

--------------------

she can only be conquered by a strong man with piercing blue eyes and rippling muscles

"I've been making a man , with Blonde hair, and a tan. He's good for relieving my tension......"

 

[ShenCS]

I just can't resist this one since it's so bloody relevant to prove how irrelevant definitions are

NSDAP stood for right of German people to stand equal to other European nations. Right out of their chapter.

[sub/]oohhhh lord[/sub]


I don't know much about the Nazi party's polices but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, I don't think Germany as a whole was more "oppressed" than other nations or that the Nazi party specifically marketed themselves as "we deserve the same rights as other nations" I would have thought it was more "Germany is awesome and here are our social and economic polices!"

or more to the point false equivalency

Did you read my first sentence. I said "I'm making a point to show how definitions can be irrelevant". Perhaps i should have stated "compared to real world events"

It is not false equivalence when in both cases definition of organization and it's actions are quite frankly opposed to each other.

That's a hell of a leap and ignores contemporary history. Yeah, Nazis wanted Germany to have its own power and rights, as did pretty much all German citizens which is why they got into power. In case you've forgotten, the reason for this was that Germany was pretty much Europe's economic dumping ground after WW1, lacking any form of real self-control after having their resources stripped and a huge part of their able-bodied population killed off whilst the rest of Europe just tutted and looked sternly over their reading glasses saying "well you shouldn't have been so naughty then." Anyone who's studied even a little history of the era can tell you that the Nazis were very good for Germany to start with. Hell, they were one of the few political parties in history to actually make good on their campaign promises. I think it's fair to say that what made the Nazis bad wasn't the "let's make Germany not a turd" so much as the "let's kill all the Jews and invade all our neighbours."
So yeah, to circle back to your comparison of labels and definitions, the Nazis did exactly what they said they stood for. They just did a bunch of other bad stuff too which we all took issue with.

 

[SNCommand]

I think it's funny as you mention that there exists people who believe in a conspiracy to take gaming away from men, while at the same time there are people who believe there exists a conspiracy that is trying to keep women away from games

I think it's simply publishers wanting to see if there's a market, people need to be willing to drop money towards products they think there should be more of, as of now the largest products out there are Call of Duty, Halo, GTA V, and now likely also Destiny, publishers are probably taking notes that out of that list only one of them allowed a female player character in singleplayer

As for the term SJW, I think there's absolutely a usage for the term, if someone actively campaigns to end a thousand years of justice rights by asking courts to turn rape cases into one where the defendant has to prove innocence instead of the accuser having to prove guilt, then you're a SJW along with a whole other plethora of degrading terms, if someone is simply asking for more female player characters I don't think a person is a SJW, but I think many have to realize they can't mandate publishers to create a 50/50 gender split

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

Sorry Vault, but I'm gonna have to call you out on this one. Your entire OP is just straight-up condescending, focusing way more on making fun of and ridiculing the people you are protesting rather than actively trying to make this discussion all-around less toxic. Now, I'm not denying that these people exist, but what you are doing here really isn't any better than what you're condemning. We need to create less hostility in these debates, not add to it, and posts like yours are only going to make things worse.

Also, Eminem is awesome.

 

[San Martin]

hmmm...do you suppose this could count as a "what about the menz?"

You joke, but WHAT ABOUT THE MEN? You can be as smug as you like, but the fact is that men are now oppressed thanks to feminism.

As a man, I'll probably never be able to get a job because of gender quotas; if I break up with my girlfriend then I'll have to pay her alimony forever EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE CHILDREN; and nowadays, what with feminazis changing the law and controlling the government, if I got with a female at a party by plying her with excessive quantities of alcohol until she can barely walk, which is the normal way of hooking up, then apparently I'd be a rapist!

So shut up "Vault101": you feminists don't know how much you've fucked men over.

OT: I liked your post. We should be friends. Wanna go to a Prince concert with me? On the moon.

 

[13e thr33]

This argument seems to go no where in my head at least.

- = assertion
. = effect

Opinion one:
-More female representation in games without harming story or creating token characters.
.Then nothing can be forced or changed directly, it must happen naturally and the argument is void.

Opinion two:
-More female representation no matter the cost.
.Gaming industry will suffer.

But to stay on track, why do people on one side of the fence need a guide to arguing? That's extremely jaded and biased, although you are human so that's understandable.

Aiming a "play fair" guide at one side only invites hate to your doorstep, and even if it is just one side causing a ruckus, does this in anyway seem like the way to calm them down?

Your just posting out of passion which is not a good thing.