Vault101's guide to gender debates

[wulf3n]

the Nazis did exactly what they said they stood for. They just did a bunch of other bad stuff too which we all took issue with.

I believe that was the point Carnex was trying to make.

 

[Trunkage]

hmmm...do you suppose this could count as a "what about the menz?"

You joke, but WHAT ABOUT THE MEN? You can be as smug as you like, but the fact is that men are now oppressed thanks to feminism.

As a man, I'll probably never be able to get a job because of gender quotas; if I break up with my girlfriend then I'll have to pay her alimony forever EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE CHILDREN; and nowadays, what with feminazis changing the law and controlling the government, if I got with a female at a party by plying her with excessive quantities of alcohol until she can barely walk, which is the normal way of hooking up, then apparently I'd be a rapist!

So shut up "Vault101": you feminists don't know how much you've fucked men over.

OT: I liked your post. We should be friends. Wanna go to a Prince concert with me? On the moon.

Clearly the solution here is just date a man. The law won't recognise you then

 

[Cronenberg1]

hmmm...do you suppose this could count as a "what about the menz?"

You joke, but WHAT ABOUT THE MEN? You can be as smug as you like, but the fact is that men are now oppressed thanks to feminism.

As a man, I'll probably never be able to get a job because of gender quotas; if I break up with my girlfriend then I'll have to pay her alimony forever EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE CHILDREN; and nowadays, what with feminazis changing the law and controlling the government, if I got with a female at a party by plying her with excessive quantities of alcohol until she can barely walk, which is the normal way of hooking up, then apparently I'd be a rapist!

So shut up "Vault101": you feminists don't know how much you've fucked men over.

OT: I liked your post. We should be friends. Wanna go to a Prince concert with me? On the moon.

Damn that was good. I couldn't even tell you were joking until the alcohol bit. 10/10 I legitimately thought you were an asshole for a second.

 

[Vault101]

I think it's simply publishers wanting to see if there's a market, people need to be willing to drop money towards products they think there should be more of, as of now the largest products out there are Call of Duty, Halo, GTA V, and now likely also Destiny, publishers are probably taking notes that out of that list only one of them allowed a female player character in singleplayer

this is still kind of a circle logic thing..the publishers greenlit those projects in the first place

I don't think its a conspiracy, that would imply its a secret, publishers aren't as willing to "risk" a property with a female lead due to market concerns...now weather or not those concerns are vailid...a slightly different thing

I'll say this though I feel like games were more diverse in the past than they are now, I think because financially theres more rising on them than ever

 

[SNCommand]

I'll say this though I feel like games were more diverse in the past than they are now, I think because financially theres more rising on them than ever

I wouldn't say that, there was a time when the only widely acclaimed female main character in games was Samus, it's no 50/50 split in representation, but I do think the variety you can choose in this day and age is quite good, it especially helps that you can customize your character to your liking in RPGs, just a few minutes ago I was playing as a female bounty hunter in Old Republic, and I can't wait for Dragon Age Inqusition to release so that I can play as a female Qunari Rift Mage, gonna be awesome to play as a 7 feet tall and horned mage

 

[Thaluikhain]

You joke, but WHAT ABOUT THE MEN? You can be as smug as you like, but the fact is that men are now oppressed thanks to feminism.

As a man, I'll probably never be able to get a job because of gender quotas; if I break up with my girlfriend then I'll have to pay her alimony forever EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE CHILDREN; and nowadays, what with feminazis changing the law and controlling the government, if I got with a female at a party by plying her with excessive quantities of alcohol until she can barely walk, which is the normal way of hooking up, then apparently I'd be a rapist!

...

Yeah, I really believed you there for a bit.

 

[Zhukov]

hmmm...do you suppose this could count as a "what about the menz?"

You joke, but WHAT ABOUT THE MEN? You can be as smug as you like, but the fact is that men are now oppressed thanks to feminism.

As a man, I'll probably never be able to get a job because of gender quotas; if I break up with my girlfriend then I'll have to pay her alimony forever EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE CHILDREN; and nowadays, what with feminazis changing the law and controlling the government, if I got with a female at a party by plying her with excessive quantities of alcohol until she can barely walk, which is the normal way of hooking up, then apparently I'd be a rapist!

So shut up "Vault101": you feminists don't know how much you've fucked men over.

OT: I liked your post. We should be friends. Wanna go to a Prince concert with me? On the moon.

+1 for the thought-you-were-being-serious-for-a-second-there list.

That OT note saved me from saying something embarrassing.

 

[zen5887]

Sorry Vault, but I'm gonna have to call you out on this one. Your entire OP is just straight-up condescending, focusing way more on making fun of and ridiculing the people you are protesting rather than actively trying to make this discussion all-around less toxic.

Good.

In the end, neither side is going to listen to one another so all there is left to do is be as condescending as possible. At least that way we might get a laugh out of it.

Great post, Vault. I would love a subscription to your magazine.

 

[Ramsey]

I'm somewhat utilitarian in philosophy so I like to look at what benefits the most people. So, when I look at feminist arguments, I'm always a bit baffled.

For example, there's a lot of talk about a Spiderwoman cover which in context isn't sexist at all, especially relative to the comic industry. I mean, if you're going to argue about sexism in comics, can't you find a better target?

To get more on the subject, when I hear people complaining about sexism in videogames, I wonder why they don't spend their time discussing racism which is far worse an issue in videogames.

For example the following three links:

http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/22/5536966/study-suggests-playing-as-a-black-character-can-reinforce-racist

http://www.shoutoutuk.org/2014/06/13/the-consequences-of-anti-arab-attitudes-in-western-video-games/

http://thenerdsofcolor.org/2014/02/24/missing-polygons-asians-race-and-video-games/

Each show issues that seem much more harmful then sexism. While the attitudes towards women might lead to getting less money, being treated as weaker and other negative things the consequences of the racist trends seem more severe. They can lead to unemployment, police harassment, violent beatings and many other negative effects.

Somehow I can't help but think that games that feature women with big breasts and slutty attitudes isn't as bad as "black people are drugs dealers and Arabs are terrorists"

It leads me to the depressing conclusion that people spend so much time talking about sexism not because it would bring the most good, but rather it would bring the most good to them (because most are female). If someone would could explain why women in skimpy outfits is more harmful than telling people that certain ethnicities are "the other" and are therefore the enemies I would be most obliged.

tl;dr: Curious why the emphasis is on feminism while racism seems much worse.

 

[Thaluikhain]

tl;dr: Curious why the emphasis is on feminism while racism seems much worse.

"Why talk about X when Y is more important"?

Something being a problem doesn't invalidate the existence of other problems you believe to be less. Caring about one issue does not prevent people from caring about another.

(And, the implication that sexism isn't a serious issue or cause serious problems...yeah, no)

 

[Vault101]

Sorry Vault, but I'm gonna have to call you out on this one. Your entire OP is just straight-up condescending, focusing way more on making fun of and ridiculing the people you are protesting rather than actively trying to make this discussion all-around less toxic. Now, I'm not denying that these people exist, but what you are doing here really isn't any better than what you're condemning. We need to create less hostility in these debates, not add to it, and posts like yours are only going to make things worse.

on the contrary...I think removing the pointless Bullshit from this whole affair would at least safe us our time..if not our sanity

 

[Zhukov]

tl;dr: Curious why the emphasis is on feminism while racism seems much worse.

There's a term for that. "Appeal to a greater problem" or something.

Or to put it another way:

Someone walks up to you, spits in your face and then walks away.
You call after them, "Hey, fuckwit, what the hell was that about?" A reasonable response in the circumstances.
They turn and reply, "Geez man, don't you know that there are homeless people dying of hypothermia every winter? And all you care about is some saliva on your face? Get some perspective and focus on what matters!"

The existence of a greater problem does not diminish a lesser problem. Especially if the two are unrelated. Also, caring about a lesser problem does not automatically mean that one does not care about a greater problem.

Lastly, people tend to be more concerned with that which is in their face and relevant to their own lives than that which is not. For example, most people would get more distressed over, say, losing their job than over the fact that hundreds of people are dying of ebola right now.

 

[Jack Action]

"Agree with me or shut up" is a horrible idea for conversation, but it's great for creating an echo chamber. One could argue that the OP only says "stfu unless you've got something valid to talk about", but let's face it, people on the internet have a habit of dismissing anything they don't agree with as "not a valid argument, you're just upset because reasons". Aka "agree with me or shut up".

The assumption on anyone's part that they're right in doing this, especially for moral reasons, is both arrogant and dangerous.

 

[gargantual]

*looks at title*

BHWAAHAAHAAHAAHAAAAA!!!

Dawww. Well Isn't that just cute.

tl;dr. Arguing on Vault101's terms.

I think we've got the gist a few hundred or so threads earlier. Have a good one. *chuckle*

 

[zen5887]

Snip

I think it's worrying and almost a little dangerous to say stuff like "this issue is more important so lets ignore this other issue". Issues are issues because they are things that need to be talked about and addressed, and ranking them in order of severity seems kind of cruel. I don't think we should dismiss somebodies experiences with something like sexism or homophobia just because they might not be as bad as racism. Arguing about which issue of social justice is more important is such a catastrophic waste of energy and it's feels cheap to imply that somebody can't care about both.

Having said that, I would love to see more discussion about racism in gaming. Abolishing casual racism in the player base, breaking down racial stereotypes, seeking better representation are all noble pursuit for sure!. And perhaps its a shame that talking about this stuff isn't "on trend" at the moment, but that doesn't mean people are ignoring it or don't want it. After all, a lot of complaints about current AAA trends is how bland the protagonists are because they are mostly straight white dudes.

 

[Vault101]

You mean labels like "misogynist", "basement-dweller", "nerd", "sexist" and so on?

I generally don't use those terms, or use them seriously to group people and I know a number of people here don't use them in that way

[quote/]Labels which are not only accepted but actively promoted by the leading lights in [b/]the gaming SJW movement.[/b][/quote]
see, right there...youre doing it

[spoiler/][/spoiler]

[quote/]So apparently labels which denigrate men are okay, but labels which denigrate women, transsexuals, gay people and shitty journalists are not.[/quote]
So apparently you just kinda jumped on the logic train there....like I said...no

[sub/]and generally theres very little justification for homophobic and transphobic slurs[/sub]

[quote/]*sigh* It's really fucking tiresome dealing with the [b/]ignorant SJW ravings[/b][/quote]

agaaaaaaain....

[spoiler/][/spoiler]


[quote/]of those virgins who think getting laid involves sacrificing your manhood by prostrating yourself before the imaginary altar of women's collective ego.[/quote]
I...um....

no, a guy arguing from a certain point of veiw is not..whatever you just said, same way a white person ackowledging the issues black people face is not them hating their own race

we don't get put on "sides" we choose "sides"

you get a buzzer just for the rediculous Machismo BS of it all

[spoiler/][/spoiler]

] Any time you insist that a particular political stance should be accepted as truth without supplying evidence or a reasoned argument to support it, you're basically acting like you're the voice of God here to supply the truth to us mortals.

I am the voice of god...remember? ask Jim

 

[Vault101]

"Agree with me or shut up" is a horrible idea for conversation, but it's great for creating an echo chamber. One could argue that the OP only says "stfu unless you've got something valid to talk about", but let's face it, people on the internet have a habit of dismissing anything they don't agree with as "not a valid argument, you're just upset because reasons". Aka "agree with me or shut up".

Its not so much "shut up" but have people back track and actually ask themselves [i/]why[/i] they bring up the point sthey do...better yet make it a challenge...

 

[zen5887]

Any time you insist that a particular political stance should be accepted as truth without supplying evidence or a reasoned argument to support it, you're basically acting like you're the voice of God here to supply the truth to us mortals.

Most people would find that an act of colossal arrogance committed by someone burdened by an astonishing level of hubris. Yet this is exactly the kind of attitude which typifies the SJW crowd.

Amazing.

So, just to recap, you don't think there is an issue with female representation in videogames? You think the way women are represented in a large percentage of the AAA industry is a-okay?

[
Wait, you get to choose when you have a baby? I sure as shit don't. In fact, when it comes to children, I get absolutely no fucking choice at all.

I mean, you kind of do though, right? Contraception is a thing. Talking to your partner about having a child is also a pretty big deal. Plus, if the woman is carrying around a child for 9 months I think she deserves a few more rights than you or I.

If you're trying to argue that men are worse off when it comes to sex and reproduction rights you're fighting an uphill battle. How many times does a dude bail on his partner once she becomes pregnant? Probably a lot more often than a woman impregnating herself after oral sex.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Thank god people know their history around here. Anyone who's done at least a basic amount of research into WWI will know Germany got fairly fucked over by all the other nations after the war simply because they lost. The Treaty of Versailles basically said "blame Germany for everything bad that happened in WWI" by forcing them to foot the bill for the costs of WWI from every nation that participated (despite their economy already doing fairly shit due to the last stages of the war being an incredible drain on them) but it also completely neutered them in terms of being a world power like they were before. The treaty nearly completely collapsed Germany's economy at the time due to the amount of reparations they were being forced to pay which in turn caused rampant hyperinflation. Keep in mind, this was the time where it cost a wheelbarrow full of German currency just to buy a loaf of bread. To say the German's weren't oppressed at the time is an understatement to say the least.

Well...not to mention the sanctions continued after WW1 to keep Germany starved into weakness. Then the flu outbreak.

However, Germany was pulling itself back together in time to be kicked apart by the great Depression, and again after that.

By the time the Nazis had gotten into power, they'd gotten past the worst of it.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

SnipSnap

What the actual HELL VAULT!?

This was the most hateful, condescending, irrational bit of self-flatulation masquerading as tripe that I've ever seen put to pixels. I can't believe, for EVEN a SECOND that you would do something like this in the current atmosphere. I find ZERO levity in your horrific generalizations as well as your outright denial of pervasive issues and valid alternative view points.

FURTHERMORE, I-

Oh.

...Sail Away, sail away, sail awaaaaay.