Vegetarianism

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ThrobbingEgo

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Elivercury said:
Wow this is fun, big can of worms stirred up here. I can't help but wonder though, that while i respect your decision (even if i think your reasoning is weak), it sounds to me like you're more concerned with animal welfare than the fact someone on your plate used to be furry and cute. Which there is nothing wrong with at all, in fact it's to be commended in my opinion. But if this is the case, why not just buy from sources where the animals are treated correctly? Jumping straight to vegetarianism seems like jumping with both feet first where, walking would do.

I personally only buy Free range chicken and eggs, which i know have been given the best life possible in captivity (which honestly probably is more pleasant than in the wild...do chickens even exist in the wild anymore?). Cow i only buy British beef, which is generally from a farm, and cows just sit around in a field in the wild, so i fail to see how a fence and someone to make sure they don't get sick bothers them. Fish i'll be honest I've never bothered much about as i'm not a big fish eater, and while i probably SHOULD check the sources, i don't buy it often enough that it affects me (probably less than once a month).
"Free range" typically means the chickens just get slightly bigger cages. Misleading, I know.

http://www.cok.net/lit/freerange.php
http://www.peacefulprairie.org/freerange1.html

If you can stomach wikipedia, check the US section of the article they have on free-range products. Free range, in most cases, doesn't really mean anything. It's mostly a marketing term. Maybe the animals are fed more grains. It doesn't have a lot to do with cruelty. This is consistent with the claims made in Peter Singer's Animal Liberation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range

So no, that doesn't neccesarially mean you're avoiding animal cruelty.
 

Elivercury

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ThrobbingEgo said:
Elivercury said:
Wow this is fun, big can of worms stirred up here. I can't help but wonder though, that while i respect your decision (even if i think your reasoning is weak), it sounds to me like you're more concerned with animal welfare than the fact someone on your plate used to be furry and cute. Which there is nothing wrong with at all, in fact it's to be commended in my opinion. But if this is the case, why not just buy from sources where the animals are treated correctly? Jumping straight to vegetarianism seems like jumping with both feet first where, walking would do.

I personally only buy Free range chicken and eggs, which i know have been given the best life possible in captivity (which honestly probably is more pleasant than in the wild...do chickens even exist in the wild anymore?). Cow i only buy British beef, which is generally from a farm, and cows just sit around in a field in the wild, so i fail to see how a fence and someone to make sure they don't get sick bothers them. Fish i'll be honest I've never bothered much about as i'm not a big fish eater, and while i probably SHOULD check the sources, i don't buy it often enough that it affects me (probably less than once a month).
"Free range" typically means the chickens just get slightly bigger cages. Misleading, I know.

http://www.cok.net/lit/freerange.php
http://www.peacefulprairie.org/freerange1.html

If you can stomach wikipedia, check the US section of the article they have on free-range products. Free range, in most cases, doesn't really mean anything. It's mostly a marketing term. Maybe the animals are fed more grains. It doesn't have a lot to do with cruelty. This is consistent with the claims made in Peter Singer's Animal Liberation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range

So no, that doesn't neccesarially mean you're avoiding animal cruelty.
The Wikipedia article on Free range indicated that the UK requirements for free range are higher than the US, but it still wouldn't shock me if it's not a kick in the arse off caged. So yeah, i take back the point i tried to make if you're in the US, and it probably still isn't valid if you're in the UK.

Although i don't believe a Vegetarian diet is more healthy than a "normal" omnivore diet, i just believe that a lot greater % of Vegetarians understand nutrition (or at least what a well balanced diet is), than omnivores do. It's more a case of most "normal" people don't know what is good to eat and what is bad, i mean look at idiots avoiding Pasta because it has Carbs and idiots assuming because it has carbs and a mars bar has carbs they're the same thing.
 

ThrobbingEgo

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Elivercury said:
Although i don't believe a Vegetarian diet is more healthy than a "normal" omnivore diet, i just believe that a lot greater % of Vegetarians understand nutrition (or at least what a well balanced diet is), than omnivores do.
Well, yeah, that's definitely a factor. When knowing how to eat right is what keeps you from wasting away and dying - there's a little more incentive to know what you're doing.

If it turns out that, even among people who eat meat and practice good nutrition, vegans still do better - I'd image that'd just be the icing on the cake. Or, I dunno, the garlic in your hummus. The bottom line is, they can be pretty damn healthy.
 

jasoncyrus

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Totaltruth said:
Since I honesntly can't be bothered hashing out a reply with references etc etc. I'll simply say this.

Just because something is sentient doesn't mean I won't kill it and eat it. We are at the top of the food chain for a reason.

The reason being human are inherantly bastards and egotistical pricks with nothing better to do. As demonstrated by this entire thread, my own posts included.

Look at it from this angle. All the pro veggiees and anti veggies have sat here for days now trying to convince the other side they are wrong. When instead they could be out protesting etc etc.

PETA may being a group of moronic idiots getting stupider by the minute but at least they have te balls to throw blood on people and fight for thir cause, instead of sitting on a computer talking shit and never actually doing anything to make a real difference.

EDIT: What am I doing to make a change you ask? Keeping you lot occupied here so your obnoxious flawed self superiority complex doesn't affect the rest of this world as much. I will always eat meat, this will never change there is *nothing* you can do about it and if you try to stop me I will, quite literally take a bite out of your arm/leg/neck/face in retaliation. so =P
 

MRMIdAS2k

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Apr 23, 2008
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Chartic said:
MRMIdAS2k said:
Chartic said:
I have recently started practicing vegetarianism. I still eat fish but will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die. I would like to know if anyone has any advice for me or any warnings that my lifestyle of not eating much meat could have on me.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware fish were vegetables.

Sheep are raised for wool too, so they're fine too.
Chickens are raised for eggsm so thats also cool.
Cows are raised for Leather Jackets and Milk as well, so that's fine.

if anything, fish aren't raised to die, but thats the only think they're good for once caught.

At least my foods dead.

MIdAS
I don't even know where to begin. I don't remember many sheep dying from being sheared, chickens dying from laying eggs, or cows dying from being milked. This is also a reason I don't wear leather.

My food is dead too. Just because they are plants doesn't mean they live forever when they are picked.

As I have said before, I eat fish because they are not raised to die.

I would probably not eat the above mentioned foods like milk and eggs if I knew that would not have a significant impact on my health and if I wanted to be an anal vegan.
yes, fruit and veg DO die, it's called "going off"

no, the animals don't die from being sheared, laying eggs, etc, but you said that was all they were raised for, I pointed out that it isn't.

and BTW, fish ARE raised to die, there's huge fish rarms just down from the ladybower reservoir in Derbyshire, and I'd assume elsewhere too, why? because we're catching too much fish, so we need to get the population up to eat them.

enjoy.
 

Flunk

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I think I should point out that if everyone on earth only ate non-farmed animals then there wouldn't be any wildlife left on the planet in fairly short order. Your reasoning seems pretty short-sighted, perhaps you're just rationalizing because you just don't enjoy eating meat.

Most fish you'll find at your supermarket are farmed anyway.
 

Ironic

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Sep 30, 2008
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Whatever floats your boat, go-ahead, but if the human race evolves to the point of not being able to digest meat, or I should say devolves, then i'll quit meat. However, i will not live to see this day, so i will continue eating that which for now, is my "prey". We're omnivores, and I enjoy as much diversity in my food as possible, it's what we're best at, and I'm nutrition-bigot.

Even if the hunting part is just going to the supermarket.

I do firmly believe in that you should kill something to eat for yourself for at least once in your life, it seems a bit... immoral to not make the choice to continue eating meat, without the experience of truly needing the meat. This is why vegitarianism is so widespread nowadays, it isn't because of animal suffering, that was around long before the widespread ideals that vegetarian lobbyists hold, it's because we live a sedentary lifestyle, and we are fully detached from NEEDING food enough to go out an kill for it.

Science and nature speak for themselves anyway, we inherently know that a balanced diet is better for us, a fact recently proven by the failed "Fatkins" diet.

EDIT: Also, i've said this before somewhere, but the majority of food-animals kept alive nowadays, are kept alive just for that reason, so if the world went veggie, where would they go? All that used space, would suddenly be freed up, and then climate change groups would remember that cows do play a significant role in greenhouse gas production.

Lack of demand would lead to a lack of supply, or in this case, huge animal cullings.
 

Elivercury

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May 25, 2009
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Angelix said:
Lexodus said:
Angelix said:
AmrasCalmacil said:
You'll lack protein, if I recall correctly.
There are plenty of other sources of protein.
Not the right kinds of proteins.
Rice and beans are the BEST protein.
No they are not. Meat is the best source of protein as it contains all the amino acids humans need. However this does not mean that by combining the correct alternative sources of protein (beans, nuts etc) that you can't get the correct amount from other sources.

On a random sidenote, I know that Quorn, has a shockingly high protein to carbohydrate/fat ratio, does anyone know what amino acids it contains?